Several folks have seen my ad for discarded spokes in the classified section. I thought I would post what I am doing with them.
For a long time I have shimmed my old wheels when they start clacking at me.
This is a good strong way to tighten a loose wheel when soaking it in a stream or with linseed oil doesn't do the trick. The problem is that it doesn't tighten up or repair loose tennons or cracks.
The spoke on the right shows what a shim does, the second from right is cracked and has a broken off tennon... the reason I decided to repair the wheel with more than shims.
The second (from left) spoke is a good one out of that wheel which shows tennon wear. The natural color one is a spoke on which I have turned a new tennon.
I have a good friend who built a Reagan press and respoked two of his wheels. I was able to liberate his 30 X 3 1/2 wheel spokes before wood stove season. Since the '26-'27 wheels have shorter spokes the more common longer spokes can be given new life. An added benefit is that their well earned patina can be retained!
By cutting new tennons this:, can be turned into this:.
As an aside I cut the tennons to be a little snug in the felloe hole. As a result the spokes are not loose enough to make a "tee-pee" in the Regan press. I end up using and alternating spoke and rubber mallet methodology in building the wheels.
My last one has a little wobble which I am going to work on curing today. I've designed a truing fixture I plan on building today and trying out on one wheel.
I still feel there is a place for the spoke jack. If I go on some long trip (say over 1,000 miles) I will certainly take a spoke jack and shims along. The sppoke jack mars the spokes around the hub end and provides a strong, albeit temporary, emergency fix.
Terry
How do you add a tennon to the spoke ?
I'd rather make new wheels than try to repair deteriorated old spokes. Not having to worry about cobbled-up wheels hanging together, especially on a long trip, is worth the cost of new spokes. There are plenty of other potential adventures without the possibility of wheels falling apart.
But as the docs say at the DIY school of surgery, suture self.
Lorenzo,
I don't know how Terry cuts the tenon but the normal process would be to first point the spoke if there is no existing tenon, then use a tenon cutter to cut the tenon.
You can see a bunch of spoke pointers and tenon cutters at:
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=k3D&rls=org.mozilla:en-U S:official&q=spoke+tenon+cutter&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bpcl=37643589&biw=12 00&bih=593&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=NMyaUJKgKayMyAGstYGwB g
If you have a lathe it could be done on a lathe too.
Jim
Steve, I agree if you use "deteriorated old spokes" you will be asking for problems. Instead I am using sound good spokes which have been retired because the wheel loosened up and the tennons were damaged. Many of the spokes are good spokes whose only sin was living in a wheel which had other spokes develop defects.
What we are talking about here is using early 1920's spokes (from 30 X 3 or 30 X 3 1/2 wheels with metal felloes) and selecting spokes with good tapered ends. Using these spokes in a 1926-1927 21" wheel. These are the "balloon tire wheels" which have shorter spokes.
The hub end of the spoke gets chucked up in a 4-jaw chuck then I use a drill bit 3-jaw chuck in the tail stock to hold the old tennon on center. I then turn a new fresh tennon on the NOW SHORTER spoke. Care is taken to make sure the new spoke is about 1/32" longer than the originals and the tennon is a bit larger being a bit snug in the felloe hole. The wheel is assembled and at the end after fitting the spokes together it gets a finish press in the Regan press.
Today I'm working on a fixture to use my router to more perfectly fit and center the hub and to true the hub mounting surface before final assembly (I press my spokes into the wheel and then go back and press in the hub.)
What I end up with is not only attractive, it is stronger than an original wheel as it is a bit tighter than the original... also they should last longer as they are starting out with a slightly larger diameter tennon.
I do not use a tennon cutter as I want the end of the spoke to be exactly perpendicular to the axis of the spoke. A tennon cutter can wander a bit where the lathe holds center.
The result of all this is that spokes which were destined for the firebox can be returned to use. This is a good procedure for those of us with wheels with shorter spokes than the donor wheels have.
I don't think there can be any serious argument against the sturdy excellent results this gives.
There is one original 1927 spoke in this picture... the other, older spokes are better than the '27!
TH
The only problem I see, is those wheels are going to look too nice on Rusty!
Have you found some straighter rims for Rusty yet? I thought I had stumbled into some, then I discovered they were 19 inch. Ever see 19 inch model T wood wheels? The rims look just like the 21 inch split rims, but smaller.
Drive carefully, and wear a funny hat! W2
Very interesting,they look good to me. Thanks
A friend of mine has a lath and he has taken some of my old spokes and turned them in a fancy ball point pen.
he made one for and the note says
This is to certify that this pen is made from a wooden spoke of a 1917 Model T owned by Bill Dugger.
The one he made is a twist type pen.
Wayne, yes too nice on Rusty... That's why I want to preserve whatever patina I can.
I've not done anything about my split rims yet... just bouncing down the road!
TH
I have straightened T split rims before. You and I should be able to find a couple hours to work together on them. The ones I straightened years ago were on a speedster. I was clocked at 70mph quite a bit, so they must have come out okay.
Next week might work for me.
Drive carefully, and wear a funny hat! W2
Terry, your method of salvaging the spokes is neat. I wish I had such a deal to try on my '22 but as you've already said; this is for the shorter 21" wheels. Thanks for sharing. Hey Steve, so there! Hahahahahaha :-)
Terry Horlick:
What a great idea, I have thrown away many, many of 30 X 3 1/2 spokes that were good but the tenon was shot. I don't have much use right now for 21inch wheels but who knows. I am going out to the wood pile and salvage a bunch of 30 X 3 1/2 inch spokes that I have not burned yet. One nice thing about them is they have all been stripped down to natural wood already. If anyone wants some stop by and pick them up no charge.
Well, I made up a jig to round and true the wooden wheels. Ran that second one through the process, mounted it up and went for a drive... nice!
This jig is nothing more than a fixture which allows me to turn the wheel while a router is mounted from below a-la a shaper table. This allows you to center the hub on the rim.
The second job is to remove run out. You flip the fixture on top of the wheel and then slide the router in the jig to level the surface the hub mounts against. You turn the wheel enough times to make the hub parallel to the inner edge of the rim... Voila! With the hub in place you can't tell you surfaced the wheel... the brake drum even hides it better.
I can't wait until Tuesday when the post office opens up so I can go get the box of spokes George Jones has generously sent to me to finish up my front wheels! So in a week Rusty will be running on spokes from Grover Cleveland and Bill Harrah (via George)! Thanks Grover and George!
Life is good!
TH
Mike, now that I know what he's doing it makes sense.
Terry, how about some pictures of rounding and truing, or even video?
Terry Horlick:
Let me know if you need some more spokes. I have some that are very good wood and would cut down to 21' wheels real nice.
Below are some of the new ones I have picked up here and there. They are all 30 x 3 1/2. I use them when ever I get a loose spoke in one of the wheels on my Ts. I ended up putting all new ones in one wheel the other day.
Dave, thanks for the offer. I hope the mail holds two "new" wheels for me. Even if I don't need to come out to get spokes, I would love to bop out to Colorado for a visit and a T drive in the thin air!
Those spokes look gorgeous. It is hard to believe that any of them were rescued from the wood stove bin. ... Well maybe the 5th one on the right!
Steve, the jig is so simple and coarsely thrown together from scrap that a video would be embarrassing. I've never filmed a video and don't think I have that star quality you have! I admit that turning down a spoke on the metal lathe might make good Hollywood.
Also I don't know how to put exclamation points into a video!!!
TH
Terry:
I guess that I was not to clear on that picture. Those are new spokes that I have picked up at swap meets and auctions. I had another 30 given me awhile back that was picked up at Chickasha.
I hope you do make it out here. Come out to the Leaf Peeper Tour next year. I have three extra bedrooms that are seldom used. If you come out I will guarantee a trip up to the high mountains somewhere.
I missed the picture of the high mountains, I will try again.
Jim;
I never seen so many strange looking tool.
I'm in heaven! A box of spokes from very generous model T guy, George Jones just arrived. He reports getting the box from a friend who purchased them at the Harrah auction. Inside the box are spokes (1/2 great, 1/2 not quite up to useable quality... maybe pen/pencil set quality! There's 21 good ones in there, almost enough to build 2 wheels and finish off the repair for Rusty.
One neat thing is there were two sheets of dated newsprint in the box. A Reno, Nv. paper from 1980 and a Reno, Nv. Sears sale sheet from a 1976 paper.
The papers are enough proof for me, this box of spokes was packed up and sold at auction around 1981! The interesting one is the 1976 paper... proof that these Model T spokes were near and dear to the heart of William Fisk Harrah, so much so that he must have kept them in this box under his bed from 1976 until his death in 1978!
Recycled into front wheels for Rusty he will not only be the only existing L.A.F.D. mountain patrol vehicle, but also one of the few known model T's with a Harrah connection!
If anyone needs (wants) documentation on how to turn historically significant, previously loved, spokes into magnificent model T wheels let me know and I will photograph the process.
In the above photo you see two of the Bill Harrah / George Jones historic spokes. The one on the left is not up to useable standards, the one on the right is simply fabulous!
TH
Yes please Terry,
I need & want
Yes, pictures!
Hi Terry,
I'll make you a pen out of one of the unusable ones (the core of an old spoke is almost always good for a pen). I have a bunch of old spokes you can look through. Come see me sometime. (I'll be in Hawaii next week.)
I can even make you a new spoke.
These are 30 Cal Bolt Action Pens, but I make different types (including one from an actual 50 Cal. casing.
Hal, thanks for the offer. If I don't need spokes, pens, or a Model T air conditioner can I still stop by and visit sometime?
Terry
Hal, I was chatting with a 9 year old patient in the office yesterday. We were discussing handwriting, "long hand", and the fact that "handwriting" is no longer taught in his school. "Typing" or "keyboarding" also is no longer on the curriculum. He said they still do math, his homework was to identify the mode and the mean of a set of numbers.
He said we do not need to know how to write because we all have I-pads with us (I don't). I asked him how he would mark the center of a board he was cutting to build a project ... wow what a look... apparently I was born on Mars!
Those pens are really neat, especially the munitions theme. I often fear I am one of the few people who still use pens and pencils (analog word processors?.)
TH
Terry, My place is wide open to you any time you come. It would be good seeing you again. We should give that 9 year old a pen.
Tenon cutting technique is now posted. Go to:
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/324108.html?1353786070
Terry - Ref. "thread drift",....I guess I'm contributing to that, but something you said above really "struck a nerve".
Last year, my 10 year old 2nd grade grandson invited us to "Grandparents Day" at his school. I noticed the very, VERY unconventional way he holds a pencil and asked his teacher about it. She said, "yes, Joey and I are working on that." I won't bore you or everybody else with details of the discussion that ensued, however, suffice to say, as polite as everybody was, I'm pretty sure that Joey's Grandpa is probably now considered to be very out-of-date, old fashioned and just "not with it" in these modern times nowadays! But I let them know that I just don't get it! And what you just said Terry, comes as a further shock to me, that the school does not even teach typing or keyboard as well as no cursive writing, and it's obvious that school administrations no longer considers these things of any importance.
I have since noticed that Joeys older brother (13) who is an absolutely brilliant student with excellent grades and study habits, PRINTS everything he writes, even long essays, book reports, etc in paragraph form!
Anyway, I didn't "get it" then,....I still don't "get it",....and as old fashioned as I know I am, I think our "educators" are making a huge mistake! And I was shocked at your comment Terry, that they apparently feel that "typing" and "keyboard" are equally as unimportant!
One of the very few things that I "insisted" upon when our four sons (all in their 40's now) was that they take typing in high school. To this day, all four of them type properly and DO NOT do the two-fingered "hunt & peck" method of typing. One of the few things that I was smart enough to realize with my kids was that what's now called the "qwerty" keyboard would (and has) survived!
......end of "OT" rant,......sorry,........harold
I had my spokes redone and forgot to ask for at least one back. Could i get at least one? I would like to make a set of handles for my wood burning stove. Please pm me to set up shipping.
Andrew, Who did your spokes? They may still have some of your original spokes and might send you some.
I do have a bunch of old spokes now which are truly unusable for wheels. I'd be glad to send you a couple. You would have to turn them down significantly to get to good wood, however. They still wouldn't be from your car, which I assume is the point.
Contact me off line if you are interested.
Terry
Andrew Deckman:
If you ever get over the hump to Colorado, I would be glad to give you all the spokes you could ever need.