ECCT Website Launched - A New Approach to Coil Point Adjustment

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration
Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: ECCT Website Launched - A New Approach to Coil Point Adjustment
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Kossor on Friday, November 09, 2012 - 07:23 pm:

A website has been set up for those interested in tracking the progress of the ECCT project: www.modeltecct.com

The Electronically Cranked Coil Tester (ECCT) is a light weight, portable electronic instrument used to test and align Ford or KW coils with ease and precision previously unachievable with prior tools.

How the ECCT project got started along with information on how the ECCT operates can be downloaded from the website.

In Car testing incorporates several electrical variables in the measurement including coil box contacts, wiring, electrical connections and Timer contacts.

ECCT In Car Testing

Bench testing under PC control for detailed performance analysis.
Bench Testing Under PC Control


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Friday, November 09, 2012 - 09:14 pm:

Looks good and the instructions appear very detailed.

When will beta testing results be posted and will it include information on the software?

Will there be a package deal or will all the accessories and software have to be purchased separately?

Does the price of the software include updates or will a new version have to be purchased on each release?

What operating systems are compatible with the software?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By keith g barrier on Friday, November 09, 2012 - 09:22 pm:

Facinating Mike, anxious to see the results of your test. Do you have an idea of price of the unit yet? Goodluck, KB


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Kossor on Saturday, November 10, 2012 - 03:30 pm:

Thanks for the questions and comments. The ECCT project is off to a much better start than the E-Timer project. I've received several excellent comments, suggestions and corrections already. Beta test results will be posted as feedback is received from beta testers and will include PC software interface.

A production run will only follow successful completion of Beta testing. The target pricing structure is as follows:

ECCT with Coil Probe: $249.95 - provides precision in car test capability
Coil Test Fixture w/AC power supply: $149.95 - Convenient bench test capability
PC interface cable and software: $199.95 - Advanced capability with statistical analysis
Complete package: $499.95 - Discounted Price

This price structure minimizes the initial cost and provides for future expansion as needs change. Please note that this is only a preliminary pricing target. Many factors can effect price as Beta test issues are addressed and actual production tooling costs are quoted. The software will be compatible with the windows OS.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Saturday, November 10, 2012 - 04:30 pm:

Looks promising!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Garnet on Saturday, November 10, 2012 - 05:38 pm:

The only way you could improve on things Mike is to include a D104 Golden Eagle mic in the package!!

Garnet


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Kossor on Friday, November 30, 2012 - 12:19 am:

ECCT Beta testing is going well. So far, Beta testers Jim Golden, Garrett Green, David Revaz and Dean Yoder have identified errors, typos, software bugs and suggestions for improved operation.

Dave Revaz just just filed the first comprehensive ECCT Beta test report including road performance testing. Folks interested can view the report and his actual coil test data on the www.modeltecct.com website beta test news page.

My thanks to the entire Beta test team for their work on the ECCT project. Things are looking very promising for the ECCT as an effective coil alignment tool!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Friday, November 30, 2012 - 04:30 pm:

Jim Golden and Arnold Wellens spent 8 hours on Wednesday checking 24 coils that Arnold had recently rebuilt. Arnold don't type and Jim has not had time to type up his notes yet for Mike.

The Nations Capital Model T Ford Club is holding a Fall 2012 Technical Seminar on Model T Ford Electrical Items and will cover Coils, Coil Boxes, Magnetos, Timers, etc. Non-starter car systems will not be covered, and due to a lack of time, starters, generators, and switches will not be covered.

This event will be held Saturday, December 1st 2012 starting at 10am till whenever at Mike Silbertís Garage Shop, 6809 White Rock Road, Sykesville MD 21784

Mike plans a demo of the E-timer in his car and Jim Golden will introduce the ECCT and demonstrate it to the group. A StroboSpark and 2 HCCTs will be there for second opinions.

You do not have to be a Nations Capital Model T club member to attend. Just show up.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Saturday, December 01, 2012 - 08:34 am:

James:

Gotta work at the day job..... would have been an important educational day. Looking forward to your report and possibly pictures after your Technical Seminar.

Thanks !

Bob Jablonski


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Saturday, December 01, 2012 - 09:46 pm:

Hi Bob:

I only had a small part of the day's events. That was demonstrating the ECCT. It was Mike Silbert and Bob Russell that did most of the planning and talking for the event. My part went well, everyone was impressed with the ECCT concept.

Mike drove his 1926 Touring to lunch to demonstrate the E-timer. Every one was very impressed with the engine performance and how smooth it ran. It even started very quickly on a rather cold morning. The car has not been painted since new and no paint is left on it, but it sure runs nice.

We ate at a different restaurant and it went by just as I was coming out of Bob Evans. I was amazed at how quiet it was running and also how fast. He said later that was doing about 45 mph.

Mike will have to fill you in on whether the engine was rebuilt or came in the car that way.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Sunday, December 02, 2012 - 07:08 am:

James:

Not to drift this thread, I will attest to a quieter engine and extra power/speed with the E-Timer over the standard timer/coil system.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Sunday, December 02, 2012 - 01:18 pm:

Yes, but Bob, Even Royce knows that thing will break down and leave you stranded when on a tour... Hee hee

In the mean time, I also enjoy the smoother running engine and better performance with the E Timer.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed in California on Sunday, December 02, 2012 - 01:49 pm:

Does this mean the price for original hand-cranked coil testers are going to finally come down? :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Garnet on Sunday, December 02, 2012 - 03:17 pm:

I think they will if Mike produces the ECCT in shear numbers like Henry produced the Model T !

There is still the old-time attraction to a hcct and I'll never let mine go. I told my wife to shove it in my coffin when the time comes.

Garnet


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Sunday, December 02, 2012 - 03:19 pm:

Garnet:

You'll need more than 6 pallbearers. LOL !


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Garnet on Sunday, December 02, 2012 - 08:30 pm:

Good point Bob, but there are some big brutes at work who'd jump at the chance to shove me into the ground so that won't be a problem. They'd have to be frisked afterwards in case one of them turns out to be a Model T guy!

Garnet


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Semprez-Templeton, CA on Sunday, December 02, 2012 - 09:46 pm:

Very impressive findings! The e-timer is moving into my cross hairs. In the mean time I hope I can find a set of ECCT adjusted coils!

I hope Santa remembers me next Christmas!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Thursday, December 06, 2012 - 07:09 pm:

Jim Golden was out of town for 5 days and left right after the seminar. Mike asked Jim to post this summary for him.

Here is a photo of Mike's T that he has named Rusty. I'm not sure why that name was chosen.

MikesT

Here is Mike's note with his summary, "Since I am not a forum poster, just an occasional reader, I am sending this to Jim Golden to post for me."

Model T Basic Electrical Seminar Results.

I need to thank Mike Kosser, Jim Golden, Bob Russell, Don Silbert and everyone else who helped or loaned materials, equipment and or knowledge to the seminar. I also need to thank the 28 people who attended representing 6 different local club chapters some driving two hours or more. I wish we had more time and warmer weather. Today (Monday) it is in the 60ís and sunny. It would have been nice if it was that way on Saturday.

On each topic we setup to first explain how it works, then showed examples, and then live demonstrations of how to service the parts. We had questions scattered throughout the day. We switched back and forth between whole group discussions and cluster group discussions while working on parts.

The seminar started with the magneto ring coil and the magnets. We talked about how they work, how to fix them, and how to charge the magnets. Then we moved to discussing timer types, alignment, service and maintenance. By then it was lunch time. The day started with frost and it was only in the low 40ís so getting a Model T driver and passengers was tough. I had already installed the loaner E-Timer demonstration unit into my mostly original barn fresh í26 touring. I ended up being the test driver and had 3 passengers to go to lunch, funny how they wouldnít all ride back from lunch with me. The engine fired right up and purred smooth right away. The cold air kept me busy adjusting the mixture as it was struggling to warm up the engine. No matter what the temperature or the speed it was the smoothest running Model T that I have ever been in. I had set my car up to stall at the fully closed throttle position to get maximum braking and with the E-Timer it wonít stall, there even seems to be room to go even slower. From just above stall speed pulling a hill to the red line it was the smoothest T I have ever been in. With no speedometer and such a smooth engine it is hard to tell how fast you really are going. They told me I was doing in the low to mid 40 mph range driving to and from lunch. The people we passed seemed to be in shock as we went by especially since I donít have a top on the car and itís all open. When I pulled back into the driveway I came up behind some participants and got to within 30 or 40 feet of them before they knew I was there since it was running so quiet. After I got back Bruce Spahr was the only one who took up the offer to take it out for a test drive to feel for himself. He was not able to feel the full potential if the timer since he was reluctant to be tuning on the carburetor mixture to keep track of engine temperature changes on someone elseís car. But even without that could feel the smoothness of the timer. For safety have an LED brake light, running lights and turn signals running off a 12 volt battery under the seat. It is charged off the mag using the diode and bulb. This is a small 1.5 amp hour battery of unknown age. The testing showed that this little old battery was not good enough to run the E-Timer so I flipped over to the stock 6 volt one for the testing.

So then it was pulled back into the garage to cool and swap back to a standard timer. While it was cooling we went over timing of the engine and how a coil works. After that there were several groups going over how to repair and adjust the coils using the various machines. That left time to swap back to stock. Installation and removal of an E-Timer takes no more effort than changing a period type timer except for the coil shorting fuses. To save time I had a timer rod set up for each of the timers so there was no need to check the timing. With all stuff going on I forgot to remove the fuses when going back to the stock timer. But the car started right up, it blew the fuses on the coils. It ran just like it was before the timer tests. Putting it back proved that the improvements were the E-Timer and not something else.

I found swapping back and forth between timers to be no harder than just changing any of the other timers. When installing an E-Timer for the first time it will take longer than a stock style because there are a couple additional checks to be done to make sure that the engine is in good shape and nothing will hit. Most of the checks that he has you do should be done when installing any timer like verifying the timer is centered on the cam, there is proper travel, and most importantly that the spark plugs fire at the correct position. The wiring of the car stays 100% stock except you may want to remove the mag option from the switch since it will not run on the mag. Adding the fuses to the coils shorting the points can be as easy or as hard as you want depending on where you decide to put them.

If there ever was a situation that required removing the E-Timer then install the spare stock timer (that you should be carrying anyway) like you normally would. When you change the timer at any time you should check and adjust the timing no matter what, or better yet carry a rod already set up. For the coils, you already carry spares anyway, carry a stock set. Or remove the fuses, or just blow them and deal with it later like I did by accident. Since The Henry Ford has been running them in all their cars every day for a year without a problem says it is not just another junk ďimprovementĒ.
The E-Timer has on board diagnostics and engine data storage so it you loan your car out and want to know how it was treated then stick on an E-Timer. It measures engine temperatures, RPMís and I am not sure what else. I am sure that Mike will download the data and tell me how bad I was driving my own car.
Engine diagnostics are a bit different than stock. Since the points are shorted you canít hold them open to check the cylinders, you have to lift the coil to disconnect the bottom contact. If the spark plug or wire gets shorted to ground the coil buzzing will become a very dead buzz. The sound does not change on a shorted plug with a stock coil but does on this setup. Since the coil points are no longer used and you have replaced the condenser with a modern one the chances of having a coil issue greatly reduced. There are no wear parts inside the timer so the routine cleaning and lubrication and adjustment are no longer necessary.

The test drive of the E-Timer has left me with some issues. Now I know how smooth that engine can really run, even with the cast iron pistons at max speed, and itís gonna make me spend a lot of time tuning on my coils. Jim Golden took the beta ECCT home he had brought so I see I have many cranks on my fathers HCCT before I deliver it back to him. If you are planning an event like this contact Mike Kosser. I asked for literature and he sent a timer also. Like he says, the proof is in the test drive and that is his best seller. But be warned, it will make you want one.

So the question on everyoneís mind, am I gonna buy the E-Timer. I really do like the unit, but I just canít afford it. The money is already being spent on getting upholstery and a top. Bare seat springs and frying in the sun take more enjoyment out of it than the smoothness of the engine. I would buy it if I could afford it. Now if it were $100 you would have market dominance like Ford had at the peak of the Model T era.

The test setup: Early 26 Touring (December 1925 build) It looks as barn fresh as I could keep it but was mechanically rebuilt to stock configuration. The rear end was rebuilt at the technical seminar last year and is stock except for modern seals and the Fun Projects pinion bearing. The engine got modern valves and TH400 clutch along with a full cleaning, new seals and gaskets, adjustments and inspection. The bore was only worn 3 thousands at the worst so not a lot was needed and the original iron pistons and camshaft went back into service. The bearings were tightened up and all were standard size except #3 rod. The car came with wood wheels, balloon tires, and a starter so it was fully loaded with both factory options.

Mike Silbert


Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.
Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration