Full battery chg, slow turnover?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Full battery chg, slow turnover?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ronnie Wehba on Sunday, November 11, 2012 - 02:26 pm:

battery is showing 6.4 6.5 volts battery 2 months old,turns over real slow,all connections clean and tight,just don,t seem to turn over fast enough to start,last drove about 2 weeks ago, turns same slow speed with charger on or off?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By scott thayer-Ohio on Sunday, November 11, 2012 - 02:42 pm:

how is your starter sounds like it may be dragging


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, Co. on Sunday, November 11, 2012 - 03:00 pm:

How Old is you motor. If new it may just be still tight and you just have to run it in at least 500 miles and even more. Can you turn over the motor by hand easy enough. If you can then Scott Thayer may be correct you starter needs a Ron Patterson Overhoul

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Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ronnie Wehba on Sunday, November 11, 2012 - 03:28 pm:

any way to check the starter ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Sunday, November 11, 2012 - 03:39 pm:

When you find out what's causing it, let me know. I have 3 Model T's Two of them turn over just fine. The third one has been slow or maybe just hits the flywheel but won't turn much. I have exchanged starters. The one that didn't work on one car worked fine on the other. I have changed batteries, cables no improvement. I took the two cables off the switch and bolted them together then connected the ground cable at the battery. Still no help. All the parts work fine on another car, and none work on that car. It starts right up with the crank.

This car had a 12 volt battery when I got it. Maybe that's why.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By steve miller- mississauga,ontario on Sunday, November 11, 2012 - 03:48 pm:

Ronnie,
What size battery cable are you using and how many amps is the starter drawing?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Sunday, November 11, 2012 - 04:06 pm:

Ronnie,

Here is a very good write on checking voltages:
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/179374/Save-Milt_Webb_starter-244465.pdf
Bottom line, you should have about 4.6 volts at the starter when cranking.

Here is how to measure the starter amps and torque:
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/80257/84319.html?1260840294

And another thread on measuring the voltage drop:
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/179374/244456.html?1319952739

After you read all that and if still in doubt call Ron Patterson.
Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Sunday, November 11, 2012 - 04:11 pm:

1. Battery - Fully charged, posts clean.
2. Cables - 1/0 or 2/00 cables, connectors clean.
3. Ground Path - Ground cable to frame, starter mounting screws, crankcase to frame mount.
4 Starter - Check brushes, springs clear of brush holders, clean commutator and inspect for burning or scoring.

If it's all good, remove the bendix then starter. See if someone near you can bench test it. Could be time for a starter overhaul.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Sunday, November 11, 2012 - 05:19 pm:

Measure the voltage between the starter terminal and engine frame with the starter button depressed.

Then measure the voltage across the battery terminals with the starter button depressed and see how much got lost in the cable route.

OR

Hold the starter button down for a minute and feel all the connection and switch terminals. The hot one is your trouble area.

Then too, it could be at the starter terminal.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Patterson-Nicholasville, Kentucky on Sunday, November 11, 2012 - 05:55 pm:

Ronnie
Jim Golden makes an excellent point.
Most of the starters I open for rebuild have one fault (and ity will cause your problem) and it a failure of the connection between the terminal bolt and the field winding interconnecting buss bar.
Here is a photo of what this fault looks like:
1
Try this; remove both terminal bolt nuts, the thin brass washer and insulator and grab the bolt with your fingers. If you feel it moving and not firmly connected to the buss bar that is probably the major cause of your problem.
This problem can be repaired without fully rebuilding the starter by installing one of these repair parts. 2
Another fellow on this forum (I could not find the post) had this problem not long ago and with some coaching he posted his results fixing this problem.
Worth a try.
Ron the Coilman


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ronnie Wehba on Sunday, November 11, 2012 - 05:57 pm:

battery bought oct 18 not a month old had internal short DUHHH!!! took it back to auto zone got another one, started on about 3rd comp. stroke. guess not nuf amps to fire it?? will still check all the above.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Sacchi on Sunday, November 11, 2012 - 06:13 pm:

Ronnie,

I am the guy that Ron Patterson helped out recently.

For years, my car would turn over slowly. I tried 00 cables, new batteries, the works. I never stopped to consider that the starter was the culprit.

I opened it up and sure enough, the buss bar was hanging on by a thread (it's easy to break it if you torque down the terminal nut too hard). Mr. Patterson sent me a new bar, I put it on, and now that starter motor cranks like a charm.

(P.S. - If I can fix it, anyone can)

Bob Sacchi


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ronnie Wehba on Sunday, November 11, 2012 - 06:18 pm:

now new battery runs fine now have water dripping out the bottom of the fan bracket is there a weep hole in it or is it more than likely rusted out


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Sunday, November 11, 2012 - 06:52 pm:

The "fan bracket" on a 27 is also the water output from the head to the radiator. There is a gasket between the head and the output. You either need a new gasket or something is either not flat or cracked. I'd start with a new gasket. Scrape both surfaces to remove all old gasket, sealer, and dirt. Check for cracks. Put some good gasket sealer on both sides and when you install it alternate the torque from side to side tighten each up just about 1/4 turn of the wrench then go to the other side and do the same. With an 8" handle on your wrench tighten just enough to where they don't easily turn farther. This fitting is not under pressure, so doesn't need high torque. It just needs to seal completely.
Norm


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