Can a T be operated in extreme low temperatures?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Can a T be operated in extreme low temperatures?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Constantine in Melbourne, Australia on Sunday, November 11, 2012 - 08:51 pm:

By extreme low temperatures I mean -20C (-4F) down to -40C (-40F)?

What modifications can made for such conditions? Perhaps, remove the fan, cover the radiator and wrap up the leaf springs?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, November 11, 2012 - 09:06 pm:

My grandparents bought a 1915 Touring brand new in Eagle Bend, Minnesota. The temperatures there in winter get down to -30 sometimes. My grandmother could crank start the car on the coldest days.

I asked her if they used telpephone batteries to make it easier to start. She looked at my dad and said "we never had any battery did we?" She remembered they had Prestone in the radiator.

To answer your question, you should only need to use oil appropriate for the local weather conditions and cover the radiator enough to achieve the desired engine temperature. I've driven in a Christmas parade when it was -5 and snowing. I did not do anything except wear warm clothes.

Here's a video of your car on a +2 degree day in Cincinnati:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jm204mSzN9M


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Sunday, November 11, 2012 - 09:15 pm:

Our 13 several years ago before Church. It was 6 degrees F.
Everything worked fine, including the kid :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kerry van Ekeren (Australia) on Sunday, November 11, 2012 - 09:26 pm:

down to -40c, Constantine you need to talk to some one from Siberia while you are still in Russia.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Sunday, November 11, 2012 - 09:35 pm:

"She remembered they had Prestone in the radiator."

That would have been a good magic trick in 1915. Perhaps they had a time machine too. They would have to jump to the 1930s to get it then jump back.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Sunday, November 11, 2012 - 09:37 pm:

Ken,

Maybe the secret was the waterpump.... :-)

Rob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Sunday, November 11, 2012 - 09:42 pm:

Ken - I remember Prestone back in the days when it was alcohol. Prestone is a really old name.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kerry van Ekeren (Australia) on Sunday, November 11, 2012 - 09:58 pm:

Wiki dates it back to a company called Union Carbide, founded 1917 started marketing elhylene glycol antifreeze in 1920.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Money - Braidwood, IL on Sunday, November 11, 2012 - 11:11 pm:

According to Prestone's website:

The year was 1927. Prestone® ethylene glycol antifreeze was pure ethylene glycol in cans, with published charts showing protection afforded by specific quantities. It would not boil away or burn, and was comparatively odorless, offering a distinct advantage to some of the substances used previously with water, such as honey, sugar, molasses and, the most popular, methyl alcohol.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Sunday, November 11, 2012 - 11:58 pm:

You must change the gear oil in the differential to 80 unless you are already running it with 80-90 or 75-?? or whatever multi grade. straight 90 will turn to hard at about -10 and not lube anything. I have cut the gear teeth up at -20 with 90 gear oil.
I would not remove the fan but keep the radiator about 3/4 covered and watch for boiling as they will boil in a hurry if you get stuck and try to make the car dig its way out with the radiator partially covered.
You may also want to put gear oil in the steering box instead of bearing grease.
You also need to use an additive that dries out the water in the gasoline so your fuel line does not freeze.
I've only driven a few times at -40 but maybe a hundred times at -35.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob McDonald-Federal Way, Wa. on Monday, November 12, 2012 - 12:18 am:

They sold louvered front rad. covers and hood blankets back in the day, don;t know how many used them.

Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kerry van Ekeren (Australia) on Monday, November 12, 2012 - 12:27 am:

I don't think some of you realise what temp Constantine is talking about, -20/-40c is north or south pole temps, so to drive a T to one of the caps to place a flag would be out of the question.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Carnegie on Monday, November 12, 2012 - 12:51 am:

I've driven my T in near zero (F) temperature and never had any trouble. I don't know about -40 though. It never gets that cold where I live. I don't think you should need to wrap the radiator if you have enough anti-freeze.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Monday, November 12, 2012 - 01:02 am:

I would put in a 180 thermostat. Elsewise, the engine will seem to never warm up.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, Co. on Monday, November 12, 2012 - 01:37 am:

Ricks:

I tried a 190 in my Center Door and found that was too hot and switched to a 160 and found that was just right. I have had it in summer and winter for 30 years.

forest canyon
A sheet of card board is my thermostat for my other Ts.
card board

I don't know what the temperature was but I got caught in a snow storm up in Wyoming.

riverside snow storm

I have hand cranked my 16 in 10 degree weather

16


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Monday, November 12, 2012 - 01:58 am:

With blankets and synthetic oil, 40 below should be doable. Still would likely have to build a fire under it or add some kind of outside heat source to start it.


From: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/170854.html?1290697172


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep NZ on Monday, November 12, 2012 - 02:01 am:

Do you have to jack up one wheel to start it at that temp'?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, Co. on Monday, November 12, 2012 - 02:09 am:

Kep:

I never have to jack up a wheel in one of my Ts to start them, I have watts clutches in all of them.

winter


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Bamford, Edmonton AB on Monday, November 12, 2012 - 02:15 am:

There was one night in December 2009 when our Edmonton International Airport at -46C (-51F) was supposedly the second coldest place on the planet next to somewhere in Siberia.

I took my '26 Touring out for a spin the next afternoon, although we were much warmer by then at -35C (-31F). I run 10W-30 oil year round and usually have a cardboard in front of the radiator but apparently not that day. I remove the upper toe board for winter driving.

Drove over to a buddy's shop about a mile and a half away and stayed over an hour — enough time that the car wouldn't re-start with the hand crank and electric working together. We pulled it a half block down the alley to get it going.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, Co. on Monday, November 12, 2012 - 02:17 am:

Kep:

By the way, I will be hand cranking my 16 to head into town tomorrow morning for my daily coffee. According to the TV it is supposed to be 16 in the morning.

snow


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, Co. on Monday, November 12, 2012 - 02:22 am:

Kep:

By the way, I will be hand cranking my 16 to head into town tomorrow morning for my daily coffee. According to the TV it is supposed to be 15 degrees in the morning. The part of my shop that I park my 16 in is not heated. The worst part of the trip to town is I have to drive almost a mile to get to a paved road and the mud can be pretty deep when it rains.

snow


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim on Monday, November 12, 2012 - 04:20 am:

Constantine,

Saturday afternoon in Gibbon, Nebraska it was sunny and above 70 degrees F

Sunday morning in Gibbon, Nebraska it was close to 10 degrees F with the wind blowing at 30 m.p.h.

My thermostat had frozen along with my upper radiator hose.

That was in my F350 truck ....

Sunday was spent changing my anti-freeze ....

My point is, if your T sits outside in the weather you describe when you first start it
and when it stop wherever you are headed to,
I would not drive it ....

But, if you start and end your driving in a heated garage and take the steps noted above,
it should not be a problem .....

I think it is going to be a cold winter here
in the states



Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tyler searle on Monday, November 12, 2012 - 08:17 am:

Back in the mid thirties, my father dated a girl who lived about twenty miles away. He said that in the winter, when he arrived at her house, he would drain the water out of the radiator and then drain the oil out of the crankcase and bring it in the house to keep it warm.
When he got ready to leave, he would dump the warm oil in the crankcase and refil the radiator with warm water and pour some of the warm water over the manifold. Said the car always started easily this way but if he didn't do this, he claimed that he could stand on the crank and his weight ( about 135 back then) would very slowly turn the engine during very cold weather. I asked him what weight oil he used and he said he wasn't sure as it was used oil from local logging trucks. Had to do what you had to do during the depression.

Tyler


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Lance Sorenson, Minnesota on Monday, November 12, 2012 - 09:36 am:

It would seem to me that there is more information needed. These temperatures are dangerous. Cold with wind can freeze your skin in minutes. I have spent many winters trying to start cars and trucks in the worst conditions. The early snowmobiles always broke down a mile from home. Working with gas on your bare hands with tools is so much fun. Even with modern equipment we have let roads remain closed in the winter, causing our school buses to detour for miles to pick up kids. Getting a car to start is a small part of winter driving. Wish I could go!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Monday, November 12, 2012 - 10:53 am:

Lance is correct, I would be more concerned about body parts freezing up then the car. You can't put antifreeze in your veins. Exposed flesh can freeze in less then two minutes.



Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Semprez-Templeton, CA on Monday, November 12, 2012 - 12:02 pm:

At those temperatures I would worry more about metallurgical changes. Grey Iron castings can shatter like glass below -50 F.

Back in the 70's my company shipped several hundred new electric motors to Alaska for the pipeline. As winter came, motor feet and end bells began breaking. We eventually had to replace all the motors with ones made of nodular iron castings. An expensive lesson but it solved the problem!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary H. White - Sheridan, MI on Monday, November 12, 2012 - 05:21 pm:

Note: -40C and -40F are the same temp. Just in case you didn't know...or cared. Buy the way, does anyone know why they stopped using the term centigrade? It seemed to be appropriate as it was descriptive. (Centi as a prefix for 100.)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, Co. on Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - 08:02 am:

Constantine: The 16 did start yesterday morning. It was 18 degrees. I had to crank it more than usual and it was tight. I did open the carb main jet about 1/2 turn. After it started I turned the jet back to where I usually drive. Once started I drove to town had a long slow coffee and went outside and it started easy. By the way there was no mud getting out to the paved road because it was all frozen solid. My oldest boy came in his Center Door at Noon and we drove back to town, this time the mud had thawed so we got a good coating of mud under the fenders.

two Ts


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - 09:02 am:

:-) We had a walk behind garden tractor with a snow blade for the winter. To get it started in the winter, we poured boiling water from a tea kettle over the intake manifold before pulling on the cord.

If I had to get a T going in very cold weather I would jack a rear wheel (maybe both) and warm the intake manifold to help the gasoline vaporize.
Hot water is better than using a flame :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Constantine in Melbourne, Australia on Wednesday, November 14, 2012 - 09:10 am:

Thanks for your replies.

Sounds like a T can handle such temperatures better than the human body; so I will not be heading to this place:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZjfScL_wRE&feature=endscreen&NR=1

If you get caught in a snowstorm and come off the road or have a breakdown you'd be finished.

It's not even winter yet and it's already -30C (-22F)in some cities in Russia, such as Yakutsk.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Wednesday, November 14, 2012 - 09:24 am:

I have not been to Yakutsk but have been to Novosibersk. Pretty danged cold!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ntt0JfUMFG0


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Thursday, November 15, 2012 - 01:29 pm:

Back in the day, my Grandpa (b.1897, d.1973) would put an oil heater under the engine of his T on cold nights with a blanket covering the hood and radiator to hold in the heat and it would keep the engine and radiator warm enough to crank the next morning. Once the engine cranks, the running engine keeps the water hot and circulating. If it was really cold, he would heat the intake manifold with a blow torch and start it with the rear wheel as a last resort. He said he ALWAYS got it started one way or t'other. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Lance Sorenson, Minnesota on Thursday, November 15, 2012 - 02:21 pm:

I have been driving my coupe all winter in Minnesota for the last few years. The coldest I started it sitting out all night was -14. But this is a small part of winter driving. If you can see through the frosted windows (inside and out),you still need good snow conditions to drive. My T (with chains) wasn't that good in all conditions. If you think backing up is tricky with the T, try backing a quarter mile back out of blocked roads. The tracks that you made in the hard drifted snow wants to throw you around and then your trying to steer and run the throttle at the same time while looking back over your shoulder. More then once my glove caught the throttle as I was turning the wheel. A wide open motor doesn't help! Naturally wearing winter boots and clothing just adds to the challenge. I have a picture starting the car at -14, roads that are blocked by 6 foot drifts and me in the ditch. This all happens within five miles of town and I'm carrying a cell phone. The human body can survive in these conditions, the cars can be forced to perform, but we should be smart enough to not try it!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Thursday, November 15, 2012 - 03:06 pm:

Had a Uncle that was stationed at Minot AFB North (I think) Dakota back in the 60's. Shipped there from Florida no less. In SAC at that time the alerts ran 5/7 days. The cars sat in absolutely insane cold temperatures. Electric dip stick, water & batt. heaters were a must. He didn't have an extension cord long enough so he Sgt. Bilkoed a communications cable from a B-52 and converted it. Point is it kept him from having to do anything extreme to get running after a long park. I did have relatives that told of draining & pre heating coolant then pouring it in to start in cold weather.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Thursday, November 15, 2012 - 05:27 pm:

Fogged up/frosty windshield is a concern, especially in a closed car. I remember the old timers talking about a little bag with salt to rub off the frost as it formed. Electric heating elements fastened with suction cups on the windshield was another accessory from the model A days, I think. Likely not used so much in T times. Must have drained the battery bad..


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Thursday, November 15, 2012 - 05:34 pm:

Roger - One of those "old time" little fans that blow air against the windshield would probably work pretty well, and look more "period correct" too!.......harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gilbert V. I. Fitzhugh on Thursday, November 15, 2012 - 08:38 pm:

About 45 years ago I was living in Minnetonka Village, Minnesota with my then-wife and two small kids. We were friends with Tom and Amy Reese who lived in Mound. Tom had several old cars, including a '13 T touring named Eileen, as in "I lean".

One Saturday morning in the dead of winter, temperature about -25F, Tom called up and said: "Bundle up the family and come on over. We're having a T-boggan party." When I inquired as to just what such an event might be, he said he'd found a set of original tire chains for Eileen and had her out on frozen Lake Minnetonka, with a toboggan roped to the rear axle. Of course, we went. Being hauled around the lake on a toboggan behind a T was a hoot. We got up to about 25 mph before the T boiled over. At one point, a couple of snowmobilers came up alongside (snowmobiles were still a novelty back then), pulled flasks from under their parkas, took a deep swig each, shook their heads, and roared off.

Tom and Amy still live in Mound and still have Eileen. But with advancing years has come wisdom - now they winter in Arizona. My son, who was 5 at the time, now has a '12 T of his own.

Gil Fitzhugh, Morristown, NJ


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