What oil to run in myT

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: What oil to run in myT
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By scott thayer-Ohio on Monday, November 12, 2012 - 03:32 pm:

what weight detergent oil you guys run in your T


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Claverie on Monday, November 12, 2012 - 03:43 pm:

And away we go!!!!!

Scott, this is one of the most disputed subjects on this forum, along with type of bands, 6 or 12 volts, and coils vs: distributors.

Everyone has an opinion. None are wrong.

The fact is, any oil you can buy today, of any weight and type, and for any price, is several light-years better than any oil available in the 1920's. So in a way, it doesn't matter what you use.

The only considerations are how hard it is to crank the engine in the lowest temperature you might encounter, and to be sure it doesn't have molybdenum in it, because that shorts out magnetos.

Boiling it all down to essentials, the best advice is this: Whatever you use in your modern car, is just fine for your Model T. Or something cheaper.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kerry van Ekeren (Australia) on Monday, November 12, 2012 - 03:44 pm:

Is your engine all clean inside if it has been running mineral oil?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By scott thayer-Ohio on Monday, November 12, 2012 - 03:52 pm:

engine is clean now,i was wondering if i can run 20/W50 or should i use 10/W30 OR 5/W30


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Monday, November 12, 2012 - 03:59 pm:

Peter - No graphite oil either!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George Clipner-Los Angeles on Monday, November 12, 2012 - 04:41 pm:

Scott, "Engine is clean now" Explain please. Is this a recently rebuilt engine ???


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Monday, November 12, 2012 - 04:43 pm:

Scott,

I use 20w-50 in my T's because they have a fair amount of miles on the engines and they just run quieter on the heavier stuff.

My Model N engine is still tight and therefore likes 10w-30.

As Peter states, others will differ.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison on Monday, November 12, 2012 - 06:15 pm:

I mix a little 30 wt with my 10W30 quart for quart. I like to put 2 of each together. Then I pour in a quart of 600W rearend grease. Mix it all up and scoop out 4 quarts and put them in the engine. That way I satisfy everyone on this forum that's going to give their opinion of what to run. Sometime just a little touch of marvel mystery oil and some
3 in 1 will work if you think the 600W is too thick.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Monday, November 12, 2012 - 06:32 pm:

Go to your local Dollar store or Auto-Zone and get there store brand (cheaper) 10w30 oil. It will be the best thing your Model T ever thought about having in it. Thats what I use.
No kidding!
As long as its nice and slick it will work. Your Model T that is.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bud Holzschuh - Panama City, FL on Monday, November 12, 2012 - 07:50 pm:

Scott

I tend towards the lighter weight oils subscribing to the theory that the quicker the oil gets to the bearings the better.

I have used 10w-30 and even 5w-20 with great success. If you have the original T clutch a lighter weight oil gives a free neutral and easier cranking.

schuh


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Semprez-Templeton, CA on Monday, November 12, 2012 - 10:11 pm:

You can run any good medium WT. oil as long as you do not have a water pump! I run DELO when I have it, Plain 30 wt when I don't. The oil Ford's had when new, was Iffy at best. 10W-30 works well in my '16 but so does 20w-50!

Choose what you like.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Monday, November 12, 2012 - 10:56 pm:

Usually a little less than 4 pounds will suffice.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bud Holzschuh - Panama City, FL on Monday, November 12, 2012 - 10:57 pm:

Ted
does that include a filter change ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - 07:06 am:

20W-50 is perfect for a hot climate like Saudia Arabia or Libya or perhaps the southern Arizona region of the USA in summer months.

Oil needs to flow easily to be able to provide lubrication in a non pressurized engine. Thick oil may take several seconds to rech transmission bushings and other areas when cold. That is why Ford specified a "light" oil for the Model T, later classified as SAE 20 by places like Western Auto and other auto part chains.

These days a 10W-30 or 5W-30 is a good Model T oil choice for typical weather from 20 degrees F to 110 degrees F.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - 02:29 pm:

This is interesting. According to the advertising, it's formulated specifically for antique cars:

http://www.hemmings.com/classicoil/


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By scott thayer-Ohio on Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - 02:56 pm:

thanks guys totally confused now,just kidding,i have 10/w40 on shelf,i run STP in my muscle cars for the zinc and phosphorous.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - 04:10 pm:

I own several muscle cars too and indeed they need an oil with high ZDDP levels. I use 20W-50 Valvoline Racing Oil because it is perfect for a high performance engine that needs ZDDP.

A Model T on the other hand does not need ZDDP because it has no conditions that warrant its use. ZDDP was introduced as an additive for motor oils in 1955 because of extreme pressure valve springs that were used in the ultra high performance engines like the Chrysler Hemi and the Corvette 283 / 283 HP engine. These engines had problems wiping out valve lobes - a problem which ZDDP corrected.

By 1955 the youngest Model T Ford was nearly 30 years old.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - 05:02 pm:

Peter said it right!!

"The fact is, any oil you can buy today, of any weight and type, and for any price, is several light-years better than any oil available in the 1920's. So in a way, it doesn't matter what you use."

After that just chose the color can you like. :-)
If you don't want to offend anyone go with Mike's mixture but be ready to defend yourself from the "Henry wouldn't do THAT!" guys.

I use 10-30 or 10-40 in the summer and switch to 5-30 in the winter if I remember.
Sometimes I just add 5-30 to the 10-30/40 as winter approaches.

Anything is better than adding kerosene to the oil in the winter to make it flow better! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Constantine in Melbourne, Australia on Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - 06:53 pm:

Why do these engine oil debates always ignore the fact that the engine oil is also the transmission oil?

5w/30 may be fine for the engine but would you want in between your kevlar bands and drums driving in the mountains?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - 07:26 pm:

Good point Constantine, however, I think the lighter weight the oil the better it would flow to cool the bands & drums, and I think that's the main function of the oil in regard to bands and drums. I think the thing I would be most concerned with in regard to the right oil in the transmission would be adequate lubrication for the triple gears and bushings!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - 09:04 pm:

Constantine & Harold:

This is the reason why I use motorcycle oil in my T.

Motorcycles (most) have a common sump for trans & engine oil. Most cycle oils have the SJ rating, which still has the most ZDDP additives to prevent wear on flat bottom lifters as in our T's .

I use the 10 W 40 weight of Mobil 1 synthetic oil.... my choice. No band chatter, no oil related problems, easy hand cranking, no problems.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kerry van Ekeren (Australia) on Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - 09:18 pm:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Wednesday, November 14, 2012 - 06:58 am:

The transmission does not have any of the conditions that ZDDP corrects. ZDDP is an ultra high pressure scuffing additive. It won't add any longevity to a Model T transmission.

The main thing I want in an oil is the ability to flow at the temperature the engine is operated in. The transmission bushings run at .002" clearance.

(For example) If you are running straight 30 weight oil those bushings are going to be pretty dry for a minute or so after start up at 0 degrees centigrade. ZDDP won't help this, and it won't help any other time either. It's simply not needed in a T.

It won't hurt anything either, so if you do insist on spending your money on a high ZDDP oil be sure it is an appropriate grade for the temperature your T operates in. That way you won't be cutting off your feet to spite your face as they say.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Wednesday, November 14, 2012 - 07:19 am:

Royce:

Your statement is exactly the reason why I use a multigrade oil.


Cold, it acts as a 10 weight oil, the engine temp determines if the oil goes to a 40 weight as it runs.


The ZDDP is an added benefit I want in an engine oil.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, November 14, 2012 - 09:00 am:

To be period correct you should use one of these:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Constantine in Melbourne, Australia on Wednesday, November 14, 2012 - 09:18 am:

Yeah...if you don't run an API SA oil in your T then you might as well put a Pinto engine in. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Constantine in Melbourne, Australia on Wednesday, November 14, 2012 - 09:30 am:

If it wasn't for US sanctions on Iran, I'd think these would sell like hotcakes at Hershey! When was the last time you saw API SE on sale? On a big trip they could be used as emergency axle stands.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison on Wednesday, November 14, 2012 - 11:45 am:

I forgot to add that sometimes I like to put some kerosene and STP to my mix. Kerosene is always good in anything. When I was in North Carolina in Basic training a couple of the guys said they use to mix a little kerosene in with their white lightning. They said it kept down the worms. And it must have worked, because neither of them were having to deal with any parasites.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kerry van Ekeren (Australia) on Wednesday, November 14, 2012 - 03:14 pm:

Bob, you need to read the article I had posted, temp only makes oil thinner, viscosity increases with pressure.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Schedler, Sacramento on Wednesday, November 14, 2012 - 03:38 pm:

I have oil pressure to the mains of an A crank and I have an oil pressure gauge. The pressure gauge fluctuates a lot less with straight 30 weight and remains higher, so I stopped using the multi-vis stuff. I use 30 weight all year long because our temperatures are never very cold.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Wednesday, November 14, 2012 - 05:14 pm:

Kerry:

Really ??????? Ask Royce !


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kerry van Ekeren (Australia) on Wednesday, November 14, 2012 - 05:43 pm:

Bob, Royce knows better than to think that when oil is hot that it runs out thicker when changing than the lowest W it started out as.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Wednesday, November 14, 2012 - 08:14 pm:

Multigrade oils ....... are thinner when cold and thicken with heat of engine running.


5 W 40 oil...... for example.... is 5 weight oil at start-up on a cold engine..... and thickens as engine temp increases.

That's why it's easier to hand crank with multigrade oil compared to straight weight oils.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kerry van Ekeren (Australia) on Wednesday, November 14, 2012 - 08:25 pm:

Sorry Bob, you are of the mark on that, oil thins when temp increases, multigrade only "acts" like a thicker oil under hydrostatic pressure.
Read the part on oil molecules.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Micheal Crowe on Wednesday, November 14, 2012 - 08:30 pm:

I work at the Farmers Cooperative in Nickerson, KS and our Oil man called the factory, They told him the Cenex desiel oil still has adequate zink in it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Constantine in Melbourne, Australia on Wednesday, November 14, 2012 - 08:38 pm:

Bob,

That's not correct. As oil heats up it becomes thinner.

5w-40 does not mean what you think, see:

http://www.upmpg.com/tech_articles/motoroil_viscosity/


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