Rustoleum paint

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Rustoleum paint
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - 07:54 am:

I had some trouble the other day and emailed Rustoleum.
Here is my letter and their reply in case this info will help others.I sure didnt know I needed to wait 2 days recoat!I never had this trouble till this last can I bought.

My email.

Hello. I have used Rust oleum Paint for years. I love it. But I am having some trouble.
I normally use the Professional spray paint that Lowes carrys. But I was out and needed some gloss black and bought it from the local hardware.It is the 7779 Gloss Black with this number under the bar code. 20066 77798 2

I media blasted parts of a 1934 Briggs and Stratton engine that is very rare. It took alot of time to prep the parts as the engine has been part of yard art for many years.
I used my blast cabinet to remove all rust. Cleaned the metal with laquer thinner and let dry for several hours. I then used 7569 Red primer bar code number 20066 75698 7 on the bare metal. Surface was then lightly sanded and the first coat of the gloss black applied.
Well when I went to apply a second coat, I had orange peel. Why I dont know.Why would it orange peel useing the same product on top of it's self a short time later? I sanded the parts again this morning, applied yet another coat. Same thing. I have put alot of work into this and it appears a complete strip and repaint will be needed. What did I do wrong?


reply


You can apply the topcoat minutes after the applying the primer. If you wait longer than hour, then you must wait 2 days or 48 hours before applying anymore coats. There is a "skin" that begins to form on the paint. If the skin has not begun to set, a coat can be applied. After the hour the product begins to skin over and after the 48 hours it has completed the process. If another coat is applied after the 1st hour or before the 48th hour while the "skin" is forming, it will react with itself and cause it too wrinkle. If the surface is sanded, the "skin" breaks open, exposing fresher material underneath and when a new coat is applied right after sanding, it too will cause it to wrinkle. Please take into consideration, that more than one coat, heavier coats, or drying conditions will also contribute to longer wait times than 48 hrs.
Thank you
Armando


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Seth - Ohio on Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - 08:34 am:

Yes Rust-oleum works wonders!
rustoleum


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - 09:01 am:

You can get around the 48 hour thing by baking. Before I retired I used to cook large items overnight in the walk-in oven at the sign factory. I still bake small parts in my kitchen oven. 250º is plenty.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Mahaffey on Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - 09:02 am:

Mack,

Read the back of the can! Detailed instructions for applying a second coat are there, though in small print.

One thing that's not on the back of the can is that fully hardened Rustoleum dissolves in gasoline.

Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By george house on Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - 09:02 am:

But its much better than Krylon !!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve McClelland on Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - 09:03 am:

Mack
I've had the same thing happen and worse using their product one time it will lay flat as glass.... Next time orange peel, but the worse I've ever seen was some small parts me and my bro-n-law was working on for a 1915 touring. They went from a smooth even finish to a crinkle type finish we tried a ton of combinations on these from different temps on the parts to sitting the paint can in hot water ect... So who knows if its the paint or the painter...?
Best I've used lately is there appliance epoxy paint it does great..! Good luck


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Bamford, Edmonton AB on Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - 09:05 am:

Thanks Mack, for posting that info. I see the "before one hour or after 48" on Tremclad and some other paints but never knew the rationale behind it until now. This will help me be more patient during a multi-coat job.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - 09:10 am:

And as they mentioned in the letter, if you do wait the 48 hours, then sand, you'll need to wait another 48 hours before repainting or you'll get the orange peel effect. Bummer.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - 09:44 am:

Strangly I never had this trouble till I got this 1 can of regular gloss black.The professional works fine.
But this may explain why the clear coat I applied to a engine shroud didnt work right a couple years ago.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Wicker on Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - 10:47 am:

I took a can of there gloss black and cut it with thinner 50/50 This is what I use to "Dip Parts" Very nice finish every time.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - 11:49 am:

Good one Fred, and it saves a brush. I suppose we could just keep a can of 50/50 and dip parts in it and put the lid on until next time it's needed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Wicker on Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - 12:43 pm:

Thats what I do. 1 Qt. can and put the lid back on for next time.
I also have a Qt. jar of Tractor supply low gloss black I cut 50/50 to brush on (foam brush) larger parts like Model A backing plates,drag links. Gives a nice smooth dull black finish.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - 01:22 pm:

I take from their reply that you don't have to wait 48 hours for a second coat if you simply apply it in less than 1 hour from the first coat.
So, if you laid down the first coat, waited 10 minutes, then sprayed on the second, it sounds like you'd be o.k.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bud Holzschuh - Panama City, FL on Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - 03:26 pm:

Slightly off topic, but there was a post on here a year or so ago where a member experimented with Rustoleum gloss black epoxy appliance enamel.

You can find it at Lowes and other places, it makes a really hard glossy black coating. I love it and use it on the T for almost everything. Also paint tools with it.

It make a bad painter fair to midlin'. If you haven't tried it, give it a try.

schuh


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Danial - Veneta OR US Earth Solar System on Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - 03:37 pm:

Use Rust Tough next time. A true industrrial grade coating with a lot more forgiveness.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Bohlen, Severn MD on Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - 03:44 pm:

Bud,

Jim Patrick did the test after painting a fender. He left painted plates out exposed under different conditions and documented the results.

The Rustoleum is go paint but not up the UV exposure.

Larry


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Hjortnaes, Men Falls, WI on Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - 03:52 pm:

Bud

The epoxy appliance enamel states for indoor use.

How well does it hold up down there in sunny humid Florida time wise?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Diederich on Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - 03:56 pm:

I brushed some black rustoleum on some parts and when I tried to put a second coat I used a spray can of rustoleum and it crinkled like when you try to spray lacquer over enamel. I think they use a different formula in spray cans than the brush formula. Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bud Holzschuh - Panama City, FL on Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - 06:40 pm:

Dave

My T is only out in the sun about 1 day a week, the other 6 it is garaged.

I painted fenders and running boards only with the black appliance epoxy (the rest is red).

Paint was only put on in March but so far I can't see any deterioration. Most important for me is that if I put tools on a fender while working on the engine, I don't see any scratches. Had a 2 lb ballpeen hammer slide down a front fender to the running board - not a scratch.

I like it for tools - again because it wears so well.

My apologies to Jim Patrick for not crediting him properly for his discovery - its sure been a boon to me.

schuh


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Hycner on Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - 07:37 pm:

Ran into the same problem on my coil box last month. It looked perfect and I thought I'll put on one more coat. The entire thing wrinkled. Now I have to re-sand, prime and fill prime to remove the imperfections. At least i know what caused it now, as for the print its so small I can't even read it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - 11:44 pm:

I have been painting frames & stuff like that with a brush and then spraying over it right a way and again two days later with no problems.

If you wait much more than a half hour it will just make a mess when you spray on the second coat.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Wednesday, November 14, 2012 - 02:37 am:

Mack, I learned that the hard way too, in about 1972. I had used Rustoleum for years and never had a problem, using several different methods and various drying times between coats. Then one day I painted a pickup tool box gloss black, first coat great, second coat, WRINKLES! Then I read the instructions, Hmmmmm. I think the reason that it sometimes causes problems and sometimes not has a lot to do with the humidity, sometimes it just dries faster or slower, I just happened to hit it wrong that day. I've never had a problem since. If I'm going to use more than one coat, I just let the previous "flash" good, then spray the next coat and so on. If I don't have time to do additional coats soon, I just let it dry for a day or two, depending on the humidity. Lately, I've been using the Professional series and I like it MUCH better. It doesn't seem to fade at all like the regular stuff. JMHO. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Kable on Wednesday, November 14, 2012 - 06:04 am:

Its a pity the paint company didn't explain properly what are the characteristics of this paint. It is an oil based enamel which dries by reacting with oxygen in the air. This is why it can get a skin on the top of the paint in a sealed tin. Once the paint goes into a solid state it will not redissolve.

When you apply the enamel the small amount of solvent in it evaporates off quickly, the enamel resin then reacts with oxygen and the paint sets. As the top of the paint coat is exposed to the air it gets a skin on it while the underneath is still semi liquid. Leave it 24 hours or more. and the whole coat has set.

Depending on the amount of thickness in coats you have applied and the heat in the air the paint will dry harder quicker or more slowly.

If you apply far too much paint at once it may set on the surface and there will be some solvent trapped under the skin unable to evaporate off as the skin has trapped it. The skin can not redissolve and is then attacked by the solvent which makes it wrinkle.

The normal way to apply these paints is to apply one full wet coat, wait till the paint becomes "tacky" ( this usually takes 10 to 20 minutes in normal room temperature and the solvent has evaporated out) you then apply a second coat. Sprayed correctly you will get a glass like finish if your surface is itself smooth. If that's not happening stop before you make a bigger mess and waste the paint.

Further coats only increase the chances of wrinkling or runs. If you can see that you have messed up the best solution is to immediately wash off the paint while it is wet, you have about an hour before the paint becomes too set up. Use its solvent, gloves and some old rags. It is messy but in a few minutes you will be back to square one with your prepared surface. You can then have a second attempt if you know what went wrong. If not you can find out what happened. Also you wont have to wait for the 24 hours or longer to rub it back or worse still have to strip it off, which also usually also wrecks the undercoat preparation you did,


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chad Marchees on Wednesday, November 14, 2012 - 07:49 am:

I too have used Rustoleum for years. Yes, the can instructions should be followed--I learned the hard way too.

But my biggest grip is that they changed the nozzle design, and you can no longer hold the can upside down after to clear the nozzle. This usually ends up in a clogged nozzle that is very hard to clean and clear.

And yes, The black epoxy gloss paint works very well and is tough. I used it on many suspension / rear axle parts when I had my street / drag car years ago. It never faded, and never seemed to chip unless I did something stupid. I wish I could get that in a lower gloss formula as our T isn't of the shiny variety.

POR15 also works good, but even under chassis of a full size modern auto, it will still chalk out over time--but it doesn't seem to come off which is good. But that's a whole other topic.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary H. White - Sheridan, MI on Wednesday, November 14, 2012 - 11:25 am:

Wait a bit longer than the 48 hours if in cooler conditions. I waited the 48 hours but still had some wrinkling. I turn down the temp when not in the shop and it was about 50*-60* overnight.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Wednesday, November 14, 2012 - 03:11 pm:

Chad, I agree about the nozzles. I usually just pop them off and squirt them with a dab of brake cleaner to flush them out. It's a bit of a pain, but works. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Hjortnaes, Men Falls, WI on Wednesday, November 14, 2012 - 03:32 pm:

Rustoleum wrote me back today. He said they do not recommend their Appliance Epoxy for exterior use. It will discolor and start to chalk when exposed to UV. He recommended the Stops Rust Protective Enamels or the Professional High Performance Enamels. Both will give you a hard durable finish.

I guess some of you are having better luck then they are.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Wednesday, November 14, 2012 - 07:03 pm:

Nobody recommends epoxy for exterior use including the powder coating industry. It's not resistant to UV light.

As far as the low-shelf Rustoleum, I wouldn't use that on my garbage cans. It can take years to fully cure/dry.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Thursday, November 15, 2012 - 10:44 am:

I use Rustoleum gloss black on all my chassis parts. Great stuff. I really like the spray cans for all the little stuff. I even used it for the ignition switch on my '25, which is mounted on the dashboard I painted with Centari 99A. Unless you really look closely, it's difficult to tell.


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