Ok,I have a question and I am going to ask people I feel like will know.
What is the advantage or purpose of useing a finely stranded copper wire for 12 to 36 volts over the course stranded wire we typicaly see on automotive applications?
I have read some on the net and cant come up with a simple answer.
Mack, the fine wire like welding cable is easier to work with as it is not as stiff, in the short distance in a T the power difference is nothing as wire is rated in 100'. Just my take on it.
Rick
Thanks,T is part of the reason for my question for future reference.Golf cart is the reason I ask at the moment.
Mack - Never thought I'd comment on anything electrical, but something you said made me think of one of the very few "electrical" things I actually did learn, somewhere, sometime, way back when. High school shop maybe; anyway, this is one of the few things that sticks in my mind:
Electrons tend to flow through a conductor (wire) near the surface of that wire. The finer the individual strands of wire, the more "surface area" there is; hence more electrons can flow thru' a bundle of many fine strands than thicker but fewer strands.
Not sure if that makes sense, but that's always been my understanding,...talk about a "laymans" answer, huh?
For what it's worth,......harold
Harold, I believe that's for AC (alternating current) only and frequency dependant. DC (direct current) uses the entire cross section of the wire for electron flow. At least that's the way I understand it.
For DC circuits, it's makes no difference on the number of conductors for the same wire gauge. The fine-wire cable is just more flexible.
Harold, that surface theory is true for the very high frequency radar signals and the reason why the wave guides are hollow.
Mack, Don't use cheap crossover cables on your cart. I believe the carts call for 6 gauge. Make sure the ends are tight but not too tight and use lots of corrosion protection at each terminal. I see a lot of Golf cart battery's that fail at the terminal for the above reasons. One other bit of advise don't discharge to low, the heat of charging at the start of cycle has been melting terminals on some brands of battery's.
Hey guys, I just got a golf cart a couple of weeks ago. The batteries are stone dead, have been for years.
It uses six volt batteries, six of them.
Can I just put in 3 12 volt batteries instead?
Will they last less than half as long?
I just want to see if everything works so I can sell it. It is an old Cushman.
It will function for a short time before chargeing but not near as long as it should.
I have access to 2 gauge wire.Plenty of it as in PLENTY free.But I have to buy ends and crimp and solder.But someone that works on carts told me not to use the large stranded wire.I couldnt understand why and needed to explain it to a friend who I just got a Club car for yesterday.I will be getting batterys in the morning and looking for ends for the wire and will make them up in the evening.100 bucks for a working Clubcar with factory rear seat and long roof.Not bad deal.I had sold him a rough ezgo that I want back.Lucky I found this 1.
Don't get a crimper, just need a small torch to heat the cable and the fitting & flow a couple inches of solder into the cable end.
I use a small gas hand torch that is used for soldering but an oxy/acetelyn torch will work just fine on the big cables too.
Buy the ends that go on the batteries from an auto parts store, the welding cable ends cost way too much.
Aaron,
3 12-volt batteries in series are the same as 6 6-volt in series. But, use deep discharge batteries. Starting batteries are only good for 10% or 20% discharge while deep discharge batteries are good for 80% discharge.
You might be able to bring the old batteries back by charging them at a high voltage. You need a battery charger that can do an "equalizing" charge. You can try using the golf cart charger by disabling the part of the charger that prevents it from working if the batteries are dead.
Use fine strand wire when flexibility is needed. For large gauge wire that will be moved around or has to have tight bends, use the fine gage wire.
I was taught to crimp rather than solder because solder makes the terminal stiff and can lead to breakage just past where the solder ends. It has to be good crimp, that is air tight. Most crimpers do not do a good enough job. A cross section through the crimp will show the wire deformed and no spaces where air, and moisture, can penetrate.
Neil
Neil
Use fine strand wire when flexibility is needed. For large gauge wire that will be moved around or has to have tight bends, use the fine STRAND wire.
3-12 volts will work but you won't get decent runtime out of it.
Battery cost right now is why you can pick up a cart for what seems like a song, folks don't want to buy a set of battery's so the cart goes cheap.
Aaron, I believe it's the increased amperage you'd get from the sixes as opposed to the twelves that their looking for on a cart. It translates, as stated, to longer run times. I don't hold out much hope in re-activating them. Sitting wet and dead for years is usually results in sulfating. Plainly speaking they continue to wreck themselves even though not in use.
If your charger is like the one we had for a battery powered floor cleaner, there needs to be a bit of charge left in the batteries to tell the the charger there is something there to charge. I would check the fluid level then charge each battery separate with a standard charger. Check each one to see how they did, then go from there.
If you're stuck for lugs you can easily make them out of copper tubing. Make sure the tubing is reamed out good, flatten a bit of the end in a vice, trim that end kinda rounded, drill whatever size hole you need and you're in business.
If you're using hard copper, it's easy to anneal to make it soft. Just heat it red hot and then cool it. Either let it air cool or cool it in water, doesn't matter. Only problem is that it will need a lot more cleaning after.
I brought back some dead batteries by defeating the device that tells the charger that there is a voltage, as Mark was talking about. You have to take the cover off the charger and search around for the switch that cuts it off if no voltage and bypass it.
I was surprised when the batteries came back, but they did. Worth a try. Check the water level first and then during the charging. Use only distilled water. Keep the caps off while charging to let the hydrogen and oxygen gasses escape.
If sulfated, try the "equalizing" charge, which is designed to knock the sulfate off the plates. You will know they are sulfated if they will not charge with the standard charger. The sulfate crystals are insulators.
Neil
Fine or coarse is not as important as size, BIG is always better. Anyone but me ever "rebuild" a junk battery? We used to dump one out and wash it real good internally with a water hose, then dump in a bottle of whatever "Pooky Juice" was on sale at the time, surprisingly, it worked a lot of times, wonder what that stuff was?
I have seen that done a couple of times.
I remember a guy in Germany had a Harley that had sat for years and he couldn't find a battery exactly that size. He said he new how to make junk batteries work again. He rinsed it out several times with water and left it up-side down a couple of days. Then he filled it with the proper acid mixture and it seemed to work ok, of course in those days Harleys did not have starters so it maybe only held enough juice to run the ignition but it would start after leaving it idle for a few days.
Reconditioned batteries are often batteries that have been flushed and refilled & charged.
Thanks,I had some good 4 gauge.Found enough terminals to make him a wire set.There is a company in Charlotte,Battery Supply company,that sells new and used batterys for carts.I could get a new Trojan 605 for 69 dollars.
My friend that this cart belongs to wanted to try a set of their used batterys which are 35 with exchange.They have a 6 month warrenty.
So I picked up 6 US Battery brand batterys,mid 2010 made, for 225 tax and all with exchange with 6 month warrenty.I have gotten good service from a slightly used set I bought.
So electric carts can be fixed and used reasonable.
There is a fellow localy that has a goverment contract for replaceing batterys in generators and back up power supplys for the goverment.The batterys are 12 volt,group 24 and 27.They get changed each year.1100 amp cranking power on the group 27's and they are sealed gel cell batterys.He gets 25 apeice for the year old batterys with exchange of a heavy battery.These things are like rocks,HEAVY.I have 1 in my camper and it works well.I think for my next cart project I will use 6 group 24 size 12 volt batterys of this type since I can get them cheap.
I would not mind spending $225 for batteries but my 6 volt Trojan replacements are $150 each.
That's $900!.
I will try to find some used 12 volt batteries cheap. You could use 3 pairs of 12 volt batteries. each pair hooked in parallel. that would still be 36 volts but nearly as many amps as 6 single 6 volt batteries.
That may be why big junk yards have so many electric cars to run around in, they get a free battery every time a car is junked.