Roadster or Truck

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Roadster or Truck
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Enos Wiseman on Tuesday, November 20, 2012 - 09:12 pm:

I bought what I thought was a 1927 Roadster back in September. I noticed some work on the back and having never had one before didn't think to much of it. My 78 yr old father in law said it couldn't have been hit from behind because there was no frame damage. We thought a tree might've fallen on it or something. After having it for about a month I called a neighbor of the previous owner. He knew the truck "he called it" well and worked on it many times in the past twenty years. He went on to tell me that when the previous owner Carl bought it,it was a truck and he made a turtle deck with a rumble seat.
My question is: Would there be a way of telling weather it was originally a truck in 27 or a Roadster? Not sure if the shots will upload or not.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Enos Wiseman on Tuesday, November 20, 2012 - 09:16 pm:

I'm trying to attach a couple of pictures but they seem to be to large. I'll try again tomorrow.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Wolf on Tuesday, November 20, 2012 - 09:21 pm:

It is probably a roadster P/U. In '25, Ford started to make roadster P/U's. Pictures would help.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Herb Iffrig on Tuesday, November 20, 2012 - 09:23 pm:

Try this:

http://www.shrinkpictures.com/

Use the 75% selection, when it comes up to view, click on it and rename it and use the new one.

Herb


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Tuesday, November 20, 2012 - 09:29 pm:

The Roadster had holes in the back of the cab behind the front seat on each side so that the turtle deck could be bolted on. The pickup didn't have those holes. However, many Roadsters have been converted to pickups. It is very easy, just remove the turtle deck and install a pickup box.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Tuesday, November 20, 2012 - 09:50 pm:

It's a bit unclear wether all roadster pickups came without these holes or if it was an early feature that was changed later on.. Here's an older thread discussing the variants in detail: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/80257/87887.html?1239862696

(Myself I have problems matching the body of my roadster bought in California with a turtle deck bought in Virginia - the holes in the vertical area just won't match. Perhaps the hole positions were moved during production and this turtle deck wasn't made the same year as the body. No, enlarging the holes in the turtle deck doesn't work, have got to move the nuts and holes in the body inwards..)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Enos Wiseman on Wednesday, November 21, 2012 - 01:08 pm:

Thanks:
I'm still tying to shrink the shots. When I download the site shrinkpictures .com I get unregistered version written across them. Not about to register anything else right now. I will have a look for the holes. The home made one is welded to the cab so I can easily see the back of the cab from in the rumble seat area. In the mean time I will keep trying to attach a picture or two or if anyone would like to email me I have no problem attaching them to an email.
Enos


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Hatch on Wednesday, November 21, 2012 - 01:19 pm:

This may or may not be true. I have been told that the Roadster Pickups for 26/27 DID NOT have a bead made in the back of the seat that fits the shape of the Deck Section of a Roadster. Have seen back seats that were both ways(with the bead and without) so it makes sense. Hope that this helps. Dan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Enos Wiseman on Wednesday, November 21, 2012 - 01:26 pm:

Hope this works:
Truck or Roadster


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Wednesday, November 21, 2012 - 07:15 pm:

Enos

A few more pics of the junction of the rear of the body and that rumble seat area would tell more of the body style.

To me, when blown up to 400% seems like the body is a touring car with the back seat cut-away and that body built on the back, rather than a runabout body with special deck.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Enos Wiseman on Wednesday, November 21, 2012 - 07:40 pm:

Hi Dan;
I've been having a hell of a time trying to sign in even though I've been in and out all day. I had to reset my password so hopefully this time I can get in. I'll also try to upload a few more shots. I have some really good close ups but am having a problem up loading them. here goes again.
Cheers
Enos


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Enos Wiseman on Wednesday, November 21, 2012 - 08:38 pm:

Here are a few others I just resized hope they are suitable.
Thanks
Enos


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Katy, Texas on Wednesday, November 21, 2012 - 08:52 pm:

The rear fenders are definitely 26-27 touring or sedan fenders with the single outside bead, instead of the proper wider fenders with an inner and outer bead that pickups, roadsters, and (Doctors), I couldn't resist, coupes used. I suspect the car was originally a 26-27 touring car as Dan "the man" Trease said in his post. If it was a roadster or pickup ever in its first life, someone sure went to a lot of work to cobble it up.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Enos Wiseman on Wednesday, November 21, 2012 - 09:20 pm:

I agree. I noticed the fenders are not the original ones. They just don't seem as heavy as the front and were probably put on when it had the rest of the so called work done on it. The last two owners aren't around any more and they're the only names I have, so history is pretty hard to get.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Wolf on Wednesday, November 21, 2012 - 09:31 pm:

That is a cut off touring.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Wednesday, November 21, 2012 - 10:48 pm:

Yes, a cut off touring, but a very interesting and clever rear deck. Definitely one-of-a-kind!
T'
David D.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Enos Wiseman on Thursday, November 22, 2012 - 06:31 am:

Hi:
On the picture where you see the weld there is a one piece bucket that the back is welded to. I'll take some underneath photos and some from in the trunk. I don't know a thing about these but I would think a touring would have a longer bucket or would a touring have a bucket?
Enos


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Thursday, November 22, 2012 - 07:31 am:

It's a cut off touring, original Ford sheetmetal on your car stops where the rear doors would have started. The subframe may be intact under the homemade turtledeck, though.
Here's a couple of pictures of 26/27 touring bodies:
(for roadster bodies see the linked thread above)
An abandoned cutoff:
touring 262
and a touring during restauration:
touring 263


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve McClelland on Thursday, November 22, 2012 - 10:30 am:

Eons
You have a very interesting cut off touring that someone was trying to turn into a roadster with maybe a rumble seat...?
Hey with some body work it would be a great car as is, or find you a truck bed and adapt it to fit if you want a truck. Regardless it could be a fun car to own and drive, does it have a rear seat under the deck lid ? If it doesn't and it was mine it probably would when I got finished with it. I think I've seen an after market rumble seat conversion kit for the 26-27 roadsters before.
Make it what you want....and enjoy it!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Enos Wiseman on Thursday, November 22, 2012 - 02:15 pm:

Thanks.
Now that I know what a touring looks like I guess I'm the proud owner of a chopped touring. There is a seat under there so I'll just have to fix it up and enjoy. Thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Friday, November 23, 2012 - 11:10 am:

Enos

Ran across this adv showing an aftermarket deck for a rumble seat, this is for the pre-'26.



The "Rex" was a rumble seat conversion for the '26'27 runabout.



Marking a fun 'sport roadster' was trendy back then, so your T is really a keeper! Shows off the individual creativeness of the owner back when this conversion to your old touring was done :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Friday, November 23, 2012 - 12:05 pm:

I don't own a '26 roadster p/u, but since I do own a couple of '25s, I always pay attention to the /26s too. When I was at Chickasha this year I really paid attention to this topic. I saw two original unrestored 26-7 roadster bodies that DID NOT have the holes for the turtle deck.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Friday, November 23, 2012 - 01:20 pm:

Larry

Have done a couple of '26-'27's and the runabouts have the captive nuts in the rear of the body tub for fastening the front of the turtle deck to the tub. That is a must for the deck.



Here is NOS deck still showing the 4818X Anti Squeak (deck to body) $0.15/ft. as shown in the Body Parts List book.


Note the holes for the fasteners to the body tub.

Here is a '26 runabout with added accessory bed after someone removed the turtle deck. Note the bolts in the captive nuts that would have held the front of the turtle deck.



and



But....the ones you see without the captive nuts in the back of the runabout tub...are correct for pickup bed. These are factory built with the bed in place, so no captive nuts in the rear pillars of the tub, MHO the runabout bodies you find without captive nuts in the pillar locations for fastening a turtle deck are true pickup runabouts, factory supplied with the bed, and they show this feature you noted.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chester Leighton on Saturday, November 24, 2012 - 08:34 am:

When I got my 26, someone had removed the passenger section from the touring body and installed a model A pickup bed. When I restored it, I removed the back panel, cut and widened it to come out flush with the body sides so it would be closer to a roadster body then built a wood bed. I bent the panel tabs on the sides 90 degrees and still used them to attach the back panel.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chester Leighton on Sunday, November 25, 2012 - 10:43 am:

Here are some better pictures of the modifications above


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Enos Wiseman on Sunday, November 25, 2012 - 10:53 am:

Hi Chester;
I like it. I'm still torn what to do with mine over the winter. I'm thinking of just fixing it the way it is and not make it into a truck. If it was a truck in the beginning and not a chopped off touring I definitely would bring it back to a truck. I do like the look of the truck though.
Cheers


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Enos Wiseman on Sunday, November 25, 2012 - 11:03 am:

Larry and Dan:
Thanks for your pictures as well. I like to look at all options. I like that turtle deck and if I should decide to fix what I have I'll have to disconnect and bolt it instead of weld, for sure.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chester Leighton on Sunday, November 25, 2012 - 07:44 pm:

Enos, Thanks for the compliment. If it were me, I'd restore what you have the way it is. That's a unique after market body modification that is a pleasant change from what I usually see at shows. There are lots of cut offs like mine but I haven't seen a body modification like yours in the flesh yet. Nice rig.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Sunday, November 25, 2012 - 08:33 pm:

"If it was a truck in the beginning and not a chopped off touring I definitely would bring it back to a truck."

Enos -- In the 1930's and 40's, many Model T Touring Cars were "chopped off" and made into pickups, giving them a new useful body style and extending the car's usefulness for many years. During that time, many folks moved up to a Model A for the family car and reworked the old T for farm use, or for delivery use in town. During WW-II, pickups got a ration of more gasoline than a car, so many were converted then.

The fact is, the "cutoff Touring" is so common that it is very much a part of the Model T's history. There may have been more surviving Touring Cars converted to pickups than those which remained intact. At any rate, don't feel that just because your Touring Car has been "chopped off" that it cannot still be a "correct" Model T.

If that were my car, I would get rid of the homemade turtle and put a "proper" pickup bed on it. Not necessarily a Ford pickup bed, but a wooden one as would have been done back in the day. Many were homemade, and kits were commercially available which were very popular. I don't mean to sound TOO picky, but that homemade turtle just doesn't look as good to me as the more traditional pickup bed.

Of course it's not my car, and you may do as you wish. But a cutoff Touring made into a pickup looks as correct to me as any Model T body style.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep NZ on Sunday, November 25, 2012 - 09:06 pm:

Reminds me of a plywood coupe a saw driving around once.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Enos Wiseman on Sunday, November 25, 2012 - 09:51 pm:

No Plywood Kep, all welded metal. Yes Mike I tend to agree. I really do like the look of Chester's truck. I will take a serious look over the next few snowy months at what to do. Yes in the end it's a T and that's what I wanted.
Cheers
Enos


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