Iron overhead

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Iron overhead
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By joe bell on Friday, November 23, 2012 - 01:13 pm:

I know this is a T sight but some have the A's also, I came across patterns and core boxes to make the overhead conversions for the model A. I have played around with the iron head for T's so I have an ideal on what I am getting my self into. Do you think there is a market for some if I take the time to make them? Thanks Joe


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Friday, November 23, 2012 - 01:38 pm:

You might ask over at Fordbarn. I guess it would depend on a lot of things. What brand was it, was it a good seller in its day if it has a known name or one off that did not work out. Could it be made and machined for less then whats on the market? Is it a 4 or 8 valve setup? Would it be sold as a bare head or ready to install? While a few might be able to take from a bare non machined head to a usable unit, most buyers would want a ready to install unit. What would be your plan for testing the unit before releasing to market? What would your market share be? Can you cover the cost before your break even point is reached?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By joe bell on Friday, November 23, 2012 - 03:44 pm:

Mark,
I am not interested in mass producing these, maybe a dozen, like I am doing with the other head I have been playing with for the last year. It was an 8 valve, no name on it,but the ports look nice and large for flow.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Friday, November 23, 2012 - 04:17 pm:

Joe;
The question is still, is there want for an unknown head even if its only 12 or so? I can understand the challenge to make them.
People will want to know what is the background on this overhead type. Before you ask over at Fordbarn you might want to find out who made the head and then you could ask if there are any out there that you could get feedback on.
What about rocker arms and standoffs? Is there something that could be used off the shelf or would they need to be specially made?
I am not trying to dissuade you, just giving some food for thought. I work with someone that has many great ideas for products for Model A's, some he even makes. Going from an idea, to production and having enough sales is what's needed. If you can handle the expense of having the inventory sit on the shelf, go for it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tony Bowker on Friday, November 23, 2012 - 05:08 pm:

Such an idea would sell over a period of time. I doubt you would sell 100's but 12 at $3-4000 might well find a market. There is such a device currently available from Chaffin's and they are a savvy outfit.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Friday, November 23, 2012 - 06:16 pm:

Fun project :-) Any pictures of the patterns?
Check Bill Smith's collections at the Museum of American Speed - if there were more than two heads made from your patterns, it's likely he has one :-)
http://www.museumofamericanspeed.com/Cylinder-Head.html

The HAMB has a lot of knowledgeable banger enthusiasts - show them some pictures & they'll know what it was: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=739959&showall=1


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By joe bell on Friday, November 23, 2012 - 07:11 pm:

Mark, I have played with the overheads on the T's and have made rocker arms and the shaft, pushrods so I have an Ideal with what I am getting into. I was wondering if there is an overhead availible now on the market like Chaffin's have for the T? I enjoy playing with a challenge in my spare time if it has an interest to me. If I ever come across the patterns to make an iron T overhead I would be all over that. I have a foundry close to me that does not mind experimenting as long as there is plenty of Beer to go around!I am going to do some more looking to see if I can find one that has been done to see how it performs before I waste my time and every one else. My next trip to my friends place I will get the pictures of the raw casting and patterns.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walt Berdan, Bellevue, WA on Friday, November 23, 2012 - 07:25 pm:

Model A's are not my thing but I believe the 2 port Riley reproduction heads are well regarded. While currently "out of stock" I believe that is just a matter of only doing production runs once or twice a year rather than a discontinued item. According to the web site, their is a 4 port Riley planned as well. Check out http://www.secretsofspeed.com/Model%20A%20Speed%20Parts.htm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Friday, November 23, 2012 - 07:32 pm:

Do the beers come before or after the casting? LOL :-)
Go to the two sites suggested, give some of your background in casting and get some suggestions and feedback. Other then that, go for it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Money - Braidwood, IL on Friday, November 23, 2012 - 08:50 pm:

Joe, you go ahead and make a T overhead, send it here and I will independently do the testing for you. No charge! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By joe bell on Friday, November 23, 2012 - 09:58 pm:

Doug,
I was thinking that when I found the patterns for the T head, how much work would it be to add the valves and ports? Then reality set in to day job and fun! I have already been real fast in my younger and dumber days and remember all to well what fast will cost you every time you fire it up! That is why I like playing with the T's now they are a whole lot cheaper and more forgiving.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison on Friday, November 23, 2012 - 10:19 pm:

Find a foundry and beg someone to pour a sample for you. If beer is all it takes than go for it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Money - Braidwood, IL on Friday, November 23, 2012 - 11:18 pm:

Like we were told when we were younger, speed costs money. I guess 45 doesn't cost so much. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Friday, November 23, 2012 - 11:28 pm:

Joe, I have no idea where you live but Tomahawk Foundry, Rice Lake, Wisconsin, will cast them for you and they WILL be first class too.
You won't have to wait 2 birthdays for them either.
Lots of repairers/restorers of OLD tractors use them.

http://thebizbasket.com/subsites/home.asp?ID=57


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Constantine in Melbourne, Australia on Saturday, November 24, 2012 - 09:45 am:

Joe,

Is it a F head or an I head OHV? An iron I head would be interesting and no one is currently making one I believe.

There are 4 OHV setups on the market today for Model As; Miller aluminum alloy I head, Crager aluminum alloy 4 port, Riley 2 port iron F head, and the Roof 101 CYCLONE 4 PORT F head.

None of them costs less than $4000.

There's also another one available in the UK, don't know the price.

If you could make a powerful yet cheap and reliable iron OHV unit people would be interested I think.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By joe bell on Saturday, November 24, 2012 - 10:43 am:

The couple other patterns that where there was the cyclone, there was a couple raw castings that needed machined with the pile of patterns.


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