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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: OT More history
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Saturday, November 24, 2012 - 12:47 am:

I know a lot of us enjoy history, so here's a heads-up on a current historical drama. Last night I saw Spielberg's Lincoln. I rarely go to the same movie twice, but I'll go see this one again. Daniel Day-Lewis captures the spirit of the man beautifully. If you've read Sandburg, you can tell this actor put a lot of study and preparation into his role. He's not alone. Sally Field as Mrs. Lincoln is wonderful, and David Strathairn shines as William Seward. In fact I was very impressed by the casting in many of the lesser roles as well. Watching Jackie Earle Haley as Alexander Stephens was like seeing one of those Civil War portraits come to life. There are a lot of great performances by a huge cast. I thought Tommy Lee Jones was delightfully over the top as Thaddeus Stevens. It wouldn't surprise me to see several Oscar nominations from this film. Likely candidates would include Steven Spielberg for his masterful directing and writer Tony Kushner for his intelligent script. I tend to notice anachronisms and false dialogue in historical films, and I didn't catch any here.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William L Vanderburg on Saturday, November 24, 2012 - 01:23 am:

Go back and watch it again....

Mary Lincoln mentions that she is worried that her son will be killed by a "sniper". The correct term during that period is "Sharp Shooter".

William Bilbo told Lincoln that his face is on the 50 cent piece. Lincoln doesn't appear on a coin until 1909.

Thaddeus Stevens office door closes with an automatic door closer, a 1880's invention.

General Grant was dressed incorrectly at the Appomattox Surrender.


Shall I continue? LOL And I mean this with humor. I have been involved in several "period" movies and am well versed in this time of history in America, although I didn't come up with all this by myself. It's the details that the average citizen will not catch.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George Clipner-Los Angeles on Saturday, November 24, 2012 - 01:23 am:

I agree with ya Steve, totally a remarkable film. Worth a repeat. If you folks intend on seeing it, the theater is the only way on this one, don't wait for the disc on this one. This is the kind'a film you don't want to take a restroom stop for.
5 stars in my book. Award winning performances.
George n L.A.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George Clipner-Los Angeles on Saturday, November 24, 2012 - 01:25 am:

Will, when was gas lighting used back then ???


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William L Vanderburg on Saturday, November 24, 2012 - 01:27 am:

I can't watch historical films, from any time period from 1855 to 1945, because I do pick them apart.

Whether it's clothing, cars, trains, buildings, dialogue that I know major characters said, or sometimes even small props like guns, it irks my ass that somebody gets paid lots of money to make a mistake that a little research would fix.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William L Vanderburg on Saturday, November 24, 2012 - 01:40 am:

Well, lets see. The Chestnut Street Theater in Philadelphia was the first gas-lit theater in the world in 1816. Baltimore, MD had the first gas-lit streets in the US and the first home lit by gas was in Philadelphia. Theaters were the most popular users of gas lighting. I would say by the late 1840's to middle 1850's, gas was widespread in larger buildings, but the lesser home owners and plantations used lamps and candles. You have to remember that the incandescent lamp was invented in 1879, and that would be the beginning of the end of gas lighting.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George Clipner-Los Angeles on Saturday, November 24, 2012 - 01:55 am:

Thanks Will, what caught my eye was when they were in the Cabinet room, I noticed a gas line coming up the middle of the table to the chandelier.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Herb Iffrig on Saturday, November 24, 2012 - 08:17 am:

Just the night before last my wife and I were watching a western on TV. I made the comment and said I saw a glaring mistake! "What are you talking about?" she said. I told her to back up the scene. She hadn't noticed that as one person opened a door to leave the room you could see a modern Kwikset lock on the edge of the door.
She didn't say anything but I think she thinks I'm too picky.:-)

Herb


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Saturday, November 24, 2012 - 08:54 am:

Herb,

Next time she accuses you of being "too picky" just say " I wasn't very picky when I chose you"!

Let me know how that works out for you :-).

Rob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary H. White - Sheridan, MI on Saturday, November 24, 2012 - 09:10 am:

Herb, Lock picky?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Herb Iffrig on Saturday, November 24, 2012 - 09:16 am:

I'll keep that in mind.

Thanks

herb


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Wolf on Saturday, November 24, 2012 - 09:23 am:

All of you guys are to DA*M picky. Watch the show and enjoy. Wonderful movie.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Saturday, November 24, 2012 - 09:53 am:

If you're interested in the real Honest Abe read William Herndon's Life of Lincoln. Herndon was Lincoln's law partner for years in Springfield and after Abe's death personaly interviewed and wrote to people that knew him in his early years. This extremely interesting read almost didn't get published due to Billy's elbow bending habit.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison on Saturday, November 24, 2012 - 09:54 am:

Haven't been to a movie for years. Been waiting for it.

Been doing a little light reading from a book entitled America's War for Humanity. On the bottom of the book is a sub-title Pictoral History of The World War For Liberty. Written in 1919. I'm not to far into it yet but it's interesting to read something about WW1 written within a year or two of the end of it.

I got interested in the book when I started doing a little studying and writing a little thing about the Model T's place in the 1st World War. I was about to start adding some information about the Huck starter. I had gathered information and photos and felt pretty good about it. Now after receiving this last issue of Vintage Ford and the thread written on here regarding the Huck Starter I've got a lot of information to add. It was so coincidental that within a week I found so much information.

At any rate I'm excited to go see the movie "Lincoln". The 1860's are one of the most studied periods in our history. And it's exciting to see someone cares enough to make a movie. Whether there are mistakes or not. If the acting is good and the plot works than the errors have to be overlooked.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Saturday, November 24, 2012 - 10:21 am:

I've watched "The Thing From Another World" (1951) dozens of times and always enjoy it. I was amazed when I googled the pic and came across numerous lists of mistakes which I'd never noticed before. Money appearing and disappearing on the card table, 2 guys in a wagon in the frozen North, ect. Don't care. Still like it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Saturday, November 24, 2012 - 10:30 am:

We'll probably have to go see it, although neither wifey nor I much care for remembering that war. I had a great grandfather in it, and her great grandfather spent over two years in Confederate prisons, being one of only two out of seven captured together to survive.

I believe the high casualty rates in the Civil War and wars since are a result of weapons being more advanced than the tactics.

Rescue and repair have improved, thankfully. Only 17% of those wounded in the Civil War survived. It was half in WWII.

rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Saturday, November 24, 2012 - 10:44 am:

My wife and I also went to see Spielburgs Lincoln.
A very well done movie on the surface and the acting was super.
If my memory is correct Spielburg is a BIG supporter of Obama along with most of Hollywood.
The timing of the release in line with the elections just a coinsidence?
If you believe that you have your head buried in the sand.
This was done for more than a historical movie of Lincoln which was an outstanding movie in that regard.
Yes folks politics does reigh supream in movieland. And it is a paticular point of view these days.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison on Saturday, November 24, 2012 - 11:09 am:

John, there is so much manipulation going on with immigration if this county in order to build up the democratic states it's ridiculous. I doubt we'll see another white male president in this country for the rest of our lives. I'm not trying to be a bigot. Though I realize how much I sound like one. Minnesota is a Democratic state. Labor unions and corporate farmers (NFO) define the vote and influence the voting public. The more they can load up these states with immigrants of any kind the more chance they've got of getting their people in. There's a program in place within our City where we signed an agreement with the city of Chicago to provide the kind of low cost housing the low income people in Chicago required. Our little left wing college town is a lot different now than it was when I moved here 15 years ago. Hollywierd isn't the only place where politics reigns supreme. Sorry if I took this thread to the dark side. (political) And I thought the same thing about the timing of the Spielberg movie as you did.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Saturday, November 24, 2012 - 11:25 am:

I'm not too bright, so I don't get it. If Lincoln is somehow meant to advance the evil left wing Liberal agenda, why are we getting it after the election? How does that timing advance said agenda?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Stitt-Southern Oregon on Saturday, November 24, 2012 - 11:28 am:

OTOH movie timing is often dictated by Oscar. Going into winter is an ideal time to draw people in and it's fresh in the mind of the Oscar voters. Quite a few high dollar movies hitting the screen in the late fall. I went with Bond, Lincoln next.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison on Saturday, November 24, 2012 - 11:30 am:

Steve, none of us really know. We're just trying to get something started here. Oops, did I say that?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Saturday, November 24, 2012 - 11:45 am:

Uh, the election's over. Political timing would have had it released in Sept or Oct., if somehow the movie would sway anyone.

As long as you've drifted this thread OT:

More illegals have been sent back under Obama than under Bush. Illegals don't have voting rights, anyhow. They don't have labor rights, either, so are exploited by the likes of Tyson and other meat packers, and in construction. 35% of them work in construction, vs 11% in agriculture.

"Comprehensive Immigration Reform" is bandied about by the left, but not explained. Illegal immigration is a thorny legal, moral and practical problem. It benefits the rich, and hurts the working class. Therefore, there won't be any real changes in illegal immigration until the Middle Class is once again powerful.

Illegals didn't defeat Romney; women did.

rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Susanne on Saturday, November 24, 2012 - 02:13 pm:

What always makes me laugh... having a family who have voted republican since Lincoln (the yankee side, anyway), is how people somehow think Lincoln was a liberal democrat. He wasn't. ;)

So how a movie about a republican president is supposed to make people vote democrat is a little lost on me.

Enough about this political stuff... I think I'll migrate back to the car stuff... S


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary H. White - Sheridan, MI on Saturday, November 24, 2012 - 07:44 pm:

Why do good threads have to be ruined by interjecting BS political agenda?

Ricks, My great grandfather and two of his brothers were in the Civil War. The brothers were captured and sent to Andersonville. When liberated one was so hungry he ate too much and died from a ruptured stomach. I believe I read more soldiers died from sickness and starvation than actual combat.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Saturday, November 24, 2012 - 08:21 pm:

My grandmother's great uncle was a Union soldier. Shot through the stomach. For the rest of his life he had to lie on his back to be able to eat.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dexter Doucet on Saturday, November 24, 2012 - 09:07 pm:

I like the talk of y'all's veteran ancestors. My two great grandpa left home a month before his 16th birthday. Served two years and was captured in northern Georgia sometime around Chickamagua. Spent the rest of the war in union prison camps eventually at camp Douglas in Chicago. Made it home to a family who had thought him dead. In the grant scale of things I think he was lucky to have survived and have the union to surrender to. He probably did swear oath as that was guaranteed paid trip home. His pension record states he "was sent" to such and such town. (Washington La).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dexter Doucet on Saturday, November 24, 2012 - 09:08 pm:

I like the talk of y'all's veteran ancestors. My two great grandpa left home a month before his 16th birthday. Served two years and was captured in northern Georgia sometime around Chickamagua. Spent the rest of the war in union prison camps eventually at camp Douglas in Chicago. Made it home to a family who had thought him dead. In the grant scale of things I think he was lucky to have survived and have the union to surrender to. He probably did swear oath as that was guaranteed paid trip home. His pension application states he "was sent" to such and such town. (Washington La).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William L Vanderburg on Saturday, November 24, 2012 - 09:13 pm:

I had two great greats on the Confederate side. One captured at Gettysburg, then escaped back to his unit and then finally captured and sent to Point Lookout, MD.

The other was shot in the left forearm and carried the bullet with him in his arm until he died in 1901.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dexter Doucet on Saturday, November 24, 2012 - 09:16 pm:

Correction I meant to say "my great great grandpa" rather than my " two great grandpa"


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Saturday, November 24, 2012 - 09:33 pm:

Wifey's other great GF left Maryland at the start of the war and married into a prosperous farm family in central Ill. He avoided the war somehow. 15 years later he was thrown by his horse into a creek and had to walk home in cold weather, and died of pneumonia.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Saturday, November 24, 2012 - 09:34 pm:

All four of my great-grandfathers were in Italy eating pasta and drinking wine during the American civil war, but I thoroughly enjoyed the movie Lincoln.

Of course, they had their own problems with the king, Giuseppe Garibaldi and the unification of Italy.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Spaziano, Bellflower, CA. on Sunday, November 25, 2012 - 02:08 am:

I'll second that Mr. Petrino as I raise my glass of Dago Red. Salud!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, November 25, 2012 - 02:10 am:

My dad's folks died when he was young, and he was raised by his grandparents. His grandpa was a veteran of an Indiana infantry regiment. Dad said his grandpa Jelf used to get together with his old army buddy Mr. Tout and they would reminisce about what a bunch of fools they thought some of their officers were. I suppose some things are the same in every war.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Sunday, November 25, 2012 - 02:24 am:

Since this thread has drifted this way.
My great great grandfather George King from Tennessee fought on the side of the North. Captured, he spent a year in the Cahaba Prison camp. Sick, weak, when the war ended, he was sent home on the riverboat SULTANA. The riverboat was heavily overloaded, and fighting a fast current due to floods further up the Mississippi, the Sultana struggled until the boilers blew!
It was not known how many people were packed onto that vessel. Estimates run from about 2000 to nearly 3000. Only about 500 survived. My great great grandfather was one of the survivors.

I have always been interested in the history of the Civil War. I may have to go see that movie.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Danial - Veneta OR US Earth Solar System on Sunday, November 25, 2012 - 03:27 am:

On my mother's side - two brothers came to the US in the 1850s from Ireland. Eventually one went to fight for the north and one went to fight for the south.

The brother from the north eventually settled in Wisconsin and farmed. The brother who went to fight for the south was never heard from again.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison on Sunday, November 25, 2012 - 03:36 am:

I don't know if I ever had anyone who fought in The War Between the North and South. I had family in Tennessee and Illinois on my Mothers side during that time. And my Dad's people were in the North from 1842. I'm sure my Great Great Grandmothers family were involved in the Indian Wars of 1962. I've seen notes in the family genealogy written by a family member that speak of the hangings by Mankato. They also say something about Abe Lincoln becoming involved with calling off the majority of the hangings. My Grandfather always gave my Grandmother a bad time because her family lived near the Sioux in the Dakotas and Southern Minnesota while he grew up on the Mille Lacs Indian Reservation with the Ojibwe.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Sunday, November 25, 2012 - 06:02 am:

When I was young my Dad told me his Civil War veteran grandfather said the people in the North weren't opposed to slavery of blacks so much as the slave owners selling their own half white children into slavery. I never heard that again until the recent proof of Thomas Jefferson doing just that.

rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George_Cherry Hill NJ on Sunday, November 25, 2012 - 06:18 am:

My wife went and saw it today with her 90 y/o mother. Told me when I get home next week we are going again!

My gr.gr gf served in the Minn. 2nd Vol. Inf. and stated on his enlistment he was from Goodhue Cty, which makes no sense to me as he came over from Prussia in 1856 and settled in Illinois teaching at Illinois Institute (Wheaton College) up until the War between the States and also after. I've always wondered if he had a 'ringer' :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Sunday, November 25, 2012 - 06:39 am:

Back then, George, Catholic (at least Prussian) men had a limited number of first names, mainly Josef and the disciples. Could the guy from Minn have just had the same name?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Killecut on Sunday, November 25, 2012 - 07:48 am:

On the topic of Lincoln: The best book you can read on Lincoln's last days, which came out last year, is, "Killing Lincoln", by Bill O'Reilly, Dwight Jon Zimmerman. Great read and extremely accurate. It has been a number one Best Seller for many weeks. It is still number three on the list. A movie based on this book will be released in early 2013 and will be aired on NatGeo Channel. O'Reilly, who is an expert on Lincoln also recommended the Daniel Day-Lewis Lincoln movie


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George_Cherry Hill NJ on Sunday, November 25, 2012 - 09:06 am:

Ralphie...

Reinhardt Riebeth is a bit unique maybe? I dunno they gave up in Wheaton and Minn and settled in some outlandish place called Rockford by the turn of the century...lol


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Lodge - St Louis MO on Sunday, November 25, 2012 - 09:34 am:

J. Edward Day (JFK's Postmaster General) was my mother's second cousin, and he dug around in Day family research pretty much all his life, I think. He was still doing it long after he retired and had become a gentleman farmer raising llamas in Maryland somewhere. In any case, he found that my great-grandfather and his father had both served in the Confederate army in an Arkansas regiment. He found a bunch of muster rolls, and on one day, my great-grandfather began being carried as AWOL from his unit and on the same day, he was picked up on a Union muster roll as being a POW. Apparently he ended up as a prisoner at the Great Lakes Naval Station and was given a choice between remaining a prisoner or enlisting in the Union navy. He chose the navy, so I can technically be a member of both the Sons of Confederate Veterans and Sons of Union Veterans based on the same ancestor.

He eventually came to St. Louis (his roots had been in Missouri) and became a doctor. He died in 1910.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Lodge - St Louis MO on Sunday, November 25, 2012 - 09:38 am:

J. Edward Day (JFK's Postmaster General) was my mother's second cousin, and he dug around in Day family research pretty much all his life, I think. He was still doing it long after he retired and had become a gentleman farmer raising llamas in Maryland somewhere. In any case, he found that my great-grandfather and his father had both served in the Confederate army in an Arkansas regiment. He found a bunch of muster rolls, and on one day, my great-grandfather began being carried as AWOL from his unit and on the same day, he was picked up on a Union muster roll as being a POW. Apparently he ended up as a prisoner at the Great Lakes Naval Station and was given a choice between remaining a prisoner or enlisting in the Union navy. He chose the navy, so I can technically be a member of both the Sons of Confederate Veterans and Sons of Union Veterans based on the same ancestor.

He eventually came to St. Louis (his roots had been in Missouri) and became a doctor. He died in 1910.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Lodge - St Louis MO on Sunday, November 25, 2012 - 09:39 am:

Sorry about the double post...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Sunday, November 25, 2012 - 10:51 am:

That one was worth a double read, Dick; quite an adventure he had.

Reinhardt doesn't sound like a Catholic name, does it. Did they really end up in Rockford, George?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Lodge - St Louis MO on Sunday, November 25, 2012 - 10:56 am:

Ralph, when Ed Day sent me the photocopies, it was with a handwritten cover letter (no e-mail 20 years ago) in which I remember that he said, "This reads like a John Jakes novel."


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gordon Byers - Rangely CO on Sunday, November 25, 2012 - 12:17 pm:

Dick, the term for your Great Grandfather after he joined the Union Navy was "Galvanized Yankee". My Great Grandfather experienced a similar circumstance. After his capture by the Union at Gettysburg he was sent to Point Lookout Prison in Maryland on July 4, 1863. On February 2, 1864 he took the Oath of Allegiance and was assigned to Company I of the U.S. First Volunteer Infantry. As such, he was not required to bear arms against the Confederacy, he was instead sent west to protect travelers from Indian raids.
Gordon


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randy Driscoll on Sunday, November 25, 2012 - 06:13 pm:

My Great Great Uncle on my dads fathers side fought with the 147th New York Volunteers, Co.I. He was severely wounded in the left shoulder and spent the second half of the war in hospitals; although his unit fought all the way from Gettysburg to Appomattox Court House.
My Great Great Grandfather and his brother on my fathers mothers side saw less action. On August 16, 1862, the day they were mustered in to the 12th Kansas Volunteers, Co.H, the entire unarmed company was captured by Quantrell in Olathe. They were later paroled back to the Union Army. The parole papers they signed included a statement saying they could no longer participate in the war. They both spent the rest of their enlistments fighting indians, then later became indian scouts for the Army.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Sunday, November 25, 2012 - 06:38 pm:

My Great Great Great Grandfather was killed at Gettysburg. Technically, he died of wounds received in the battle. He actually died several days later in a POW hospital. His remains were repatriated to Georgia several years later and reburied in Savannah. He was from North Georgia, but I suppose when they repatriated the Georgia soldiers, the bodies were probably sent by ship and Savannah being the nearest port in Georgia, that is where they brought them. There is a large section in Laurel Grove Cemetery that is the final resting place of many Georgians killed in Gettysburg.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jon Crane on Sunday, November 25, 2012 - 06:45 pm:

To Bill Vandenburg
I forwarded your comments regarding Mr. Spielberg's inaccuracies to my 14 year old nephew in New Jersey. He is a Civil War student and has documented my great great grandfather's activities with a regiment out of NY.
Kevin's comments and movie review are below.

Hi Uncle John, this is your nephew Kevin. I did manage to go see Lincoln. I was quite disappointed. The acting was phenomenal, but the story at times got boring. The movie was too long, and I dozed off, while my dad fell asleep for a while, and the man behind us was snoring the entire time. On the topic of the word
”Sniper,” it originated in he 1770’s and was attributed to the term “sharpshooter” in 1824, long before Mrs. Lincoln would have said it. I did find many parts of the movie interesting, but I felt it went by too slow and was too long. Also on the topic of Lincoln not being on the 50 cent coin until 1909, he appeared on the 1 cent coin in 1909, not the 50 cent coin. Also according to my research, Lincoln was never on the 50 cent coin. It was very nice talking to you.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Walker on Sunday, November 25, 2012 - 06:52 pm:

Jefferson Davis was correct when saying Abraham Lincoln's death was the worst thing to happen to the South in that conflict.

As much as I bristle over how Lincoln handled some situations, I also admire the man for his vision, his desire for forgiveness and unifying the country after the war. If only he had survived! I can't imagine being in the shoes of so many folks who were thrust into that conflict.

So far I've counted about 75 uncles and grandpas who were involved in that conflict, and nearly all fought for the state of Alabama, which was neither prepared for war, nor had any desire to go to war. Of course, my sole ancestor who volunteered for Union service from the onset was a Walker.

Oh, what I'd give to be able to spend five minutes talking with with any one of them! History has played a terrible trick on us all; that war in particular.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Sunday, November 25, 2012 - 07:16 pm:

Boys lets just be grateful Oliver Stone didn't make this movie. You want inaccurate outright lies and more natural plant fertilizer (read as horse S***) in a 2 hour movie? Watch his JFK. And believe me, I've spoken to many, mostly younger people, that take that crap as "history". Jim Garrison was a certifiable whacko and quite a number of his people walked long before the trial of Clay Shaw because they knew it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William L Vanderburg on Sunday, November 25, 2012 - 07:57 pm:

Obviously, people have never read the inauguration speech of Lincoln. The gist of it is thus: He says that he never had any intentions of ending any institutions of involuntary servitude in any state where it already existed; he was elected by people with full knowledge that he would not do so; his administration had no intent to harm the property, peace, and security of any state; and if warfare did ensue, that even though the government would have LEGAL right to enforce it's rule, it would be impractical to do so.

The biggest and most important statements he made were that the Union was a perpetual entity that could not be dissolved by any state: once you became a state, you were forever a state. He further said that if secession was allowed for the minority states that wanted it, it would seem that at anytime the people of those states felt the government didn't serve their purpose, they would secede again: a never ending cycle. The Union was perpetual before the Constitution was created, if it wasn't it couldn't be considered a Perfect Union.

The Constitution, as it read when Lincoln was first elected, provided no say as to whether the government could end slavery or protect slavery.


Now, Alabama may or may not have been anxious to go to war, but they approved secession 61 to 39.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dexter Doucet on Sunday, November 25, 2012 - 08:04 pm:

From wiki:
" The term "sniper" was not in widespread use in the United States until after the American Civil War."


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William L Vanderburg on Sunday, November 25, 2012 - 08:11 pm:

Mr. Crane,

Please read my comments again. I did not say that Lincoln appeared on the 50 cent piece. I said he didn't appear on ANY COIN until 1909. In the United States, living people are not allowed by law to be placed on money.

Mary Lincoln's use of the word "sniper" is still not accurate in this context. The term sharpshooter was used as early as 1801, even though the term "sniper" was used in the context of the British Militia in the 1770's...I can read Wikipedia, too! LOL

Sharp Shooter would have been a more acceptable line to use since sniper was not in widespread use throughout the US until well after the war was over. They didn't call them "Berdan's Sharp Shooters" for nothing. Sniper is a more recognizable word to a modern audience, hence the inaccuracy of the language used. If you think about it, sniper kind of gives off a different meaning: Sharpshooters could be in contests to hit pie plates for all we know...snipers are in the profession of killing....

I am glad your 14 year old nephew has an active mind for history.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Hjortnaes, Men Falls, WI on Sunday, November 25, 2012 - 08:23 pm:

I have no connection to the Civil War, but I was able to do some research on my brother-in-laws family.

He had an ancestor who fought for the US defending the frontier outside of Allentown, PA. Living in Wisconsin makes it very strange to hear about the frontier on the eastern side of PA. Almost hard to think of any frontier on the eastern side of the Mississippi.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Sunday, November 25, 2012 - 08:37 pm:

Jon Crane - Besides the interesting content of your post, I have to say how nice it is to hear of a young man like your 14 yr old nephew who is interested and as well versed as he is in American Civil War history!

Your nephew is undoubtedly aware of this, however, I did a bit of quick Google research and it quickly became pretty obvious to me how the "Lincoln 50 cent coin" error might have come about:

Apparently, when the Lincoln penny came out in (I believe 1909) they were commonly handled in bulk in 50 piece, that is to say, 50 cent rolls. I suppose it was easy for the movie folks to assume 50 cent Lincoln coins instead of 50 piece rolls of one cent Lincoln coins.

Guess it makes sense that they were more focused on making a movie instead of doing accurate history research and reporting.

For what it's worth,.....harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Sunday, November 25, 2012 - 08:47 pm:

OT post about a vary interesting OT thread:

Just occurred to me that this thread, which I have read in great detail as I find it so interesting, make a good argument for the VALUE of an occasional "OT" thread.

Yes, it's easy to find many other American Civil War threads on the internet. However, where else could you find a group of folks with a common interest like us "T" guys, with so many members comparing family civil war history? (.....and maybe, to some degree, he was right!)

I can't help but think that the many accounts of family civil war history I have just read in this thread are much more accurate and believable than a lot of the "bunk" that we (especially us old guys) were taught in school.

And to keep this "Model "T" related", I think it is true that Henry Ford actually did say something to the effect that "most of history is bunk!"


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Sunday, November 25, 2012 - 08:53 pm:

Opps - my comment.....(.....and maybe, to some degree, he was right!).....was supposed to be at the very end of my post. Don't know how that happened,.....???


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William L Vanderburg on Sunday, November 25, 2012 - 09:06 pm:

Harold, you don't need to say "I believe 1909", it's a fact that it was 1909. Teddy Roosevelt ordered it's creation, and Victor David Brenner designed it.

Any researcher, worth their salt, should know that Lincoln didn't appear on any coins during the war, but he did however, appear on a 10 dollar "demand note" also known as a "greenback". National currency was authorized in July 1861, after a period of currency from "broke" banks: state and local banks that issued their own paper money, that ranged in values from one half of a cent to 20,000 dollars.

A uniform currency would be established in 1863. And legal tender notes came about in 1862.

At some point, it became "out of fashion" to put living people on US paper money. Coinage had never had "live" people on it, since the fledgling states were "anti-royalists" and didn't want to show reverence to any man on their coins like Britain or other European countries. Now, it the law.

Confederate States printed all manners of money during the war, and it wasn't worth the paper it was printed on. One merchant, in Pennsylvania, printed more Confederate paper money than the south printed in 4 years.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Sunday, November 25, 2012 - 10:36 pm:

Save your confederate money, boys - now them old bills are worth much more than the paper: http://www.ebay.com/itm/T-64-1864-500-Confederate-Currency-Note-PCGS-XF-40-/3209 78633725


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Lovejoy, So Cal on Monday, November 26, 2012 - 02:00 am:

Great thread, fun reading. My Dads side of the family had people in the Union and my Moms people were in Texas at the time of the war. Though we have not found any records from her side of the family as far as military service. I plan on going to see it for sure, sounds good to me. Roger, I have a small collection of Confederate money :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Monday, November 26, 2012 - 10:07 am:

Wifey actually wants to see it. Possibly because of all the Lincoln books I've gone through. Probably Tues. I think the last movie I saw in a theater was Wings. It was a talkie.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 - 10:09 am:

Charlie B.

You would be surprised at the price of movie theatre popcorn at today's prices !!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 - 05:47 pm:

Saw it. It's a great film. Could possibly be a master piece. I think the 50 cent remark was made in jest. As in "it ain't worth a dollar". Many ringers in the main characters. The actors resemble their actual counterparts. If you don't choke up when Abe dies you ain't breathing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 - 06:40 pm:

Be careful about that old Confederate money. Probably half of what is being offered as original is old play money. It was printed and sold as far back as the early '50s. I even bought a good stack of it about 1962 when I was a kid. I also have one original piece, maybe two.
The history of paper money in this country is interesting. Prior to the "Civil War", most paper currency was issued by banks and occasionally other commercial entities. The obvious problem was that sometimes, it went bad, but continued to circulate. It was also easy to be faked. It has been a long time since I studied any of this, I stopped about the time I got some old piece of junk that I could try to repair.
Most of my old coin collections have been sold to satisfy family needs over the years. But a few special or interesting pieces, I kept. If only I could find them. One of my favorite pieces I kept is a three dollar bill. Such things were issued. If I recall correctly, I think it was a New York Banknote. It is in poor condition.
I, too, have enjoyed the many recollections of family past. Santayana said "those who do not learn history, are doomed to repeat it". Actually, that is not exactly what he said. He said it in Castilian Spanish. However, interest in ones own familial connections to history is the first, best, step to being interested in history in general. I would expect model T people to have this connection (sort of goes with the territory). If the rest of our people could develop all this, there could yet be hope for humanity.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William L Vanderburg on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 - 09:35 pm:

Samuel Upham was a Philadelphia printer who probably printed more fake Confederate currency during the war than any other person. You could buy $20,000 in Confederate money from him for 5 bucks. It had his name and address printed on it, but people cut that off and used it as real money.

Banks, drugstores, and other entities printed money, too. The banks were known as "broke banks", because they would invariably go broke not long after the money was issued.


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