Spark Plugs ; old style vs modern with adapter

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Spark Plugs ; old style vs modern with adapter
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Daniel McBride on Sunday, November 25, 2012 - 10:08 pm:

I would appreciate recommendation(s) or opinions on the pros and cons of original style spark plugs compared with modern style with adapters.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matthew David Maiers on Sunday, November 25, 2012 - 10:25 pm:

friends dont let friends run plugs with adapters.

the only pro i could see is for high performance use when running different grades of fuel and using different heat ranges of plugs to determine peak horsepower.

otherwise they look ugly as hell. by a set of champion x's last plugs youll ever need.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, November 25, 2012 - 10:39 pm:

I don't have any experience with modern plugs, but I can tell you the original Champion X plugs work very well. New ones are about $20 each at O'Reilly, but I buy old ones at swap meets and auctions for much less.



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Nathan Bright on Sunday, November 25, 2012 - 11:01 pm:

just in case someone searches this thread in the future, model t spark plugs are 1/2 inch pipe thread


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cameron Whitaker on Monday, November 26, 2012 - 01:02 am:

I personally have never liked the adapters. It presents more of a chance for leakage and they often move the spark gap further away from the combustion chamber. On top of it, they just don't look right.

I have been running a set of NOS Champion 25s, and they work great. They don't leak and the engine runs extremely smoothly and reliably. When (or rather if) I ever get some spending money, I'm going to swap the 25s out for a new set of Xs. I've installed them on several other Ts, and they are just fantastic!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Monday, November 26, 2012 - 06:44 am:

The guys who run spark plug adapters bragg that they can buy a spare box of spark plugs at any auto part store. Typically they use a whole box of 10 plugs every couple hundred miles so it has been proven to me.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick Goelz-Knoxville,TN on Monday, November 26, 2012 - 11:09 am:

I have been running adapters and Bosch plugs for eight years with no problems, but i just changed my head to one with 14mm openings and there is a noticeable difference in the performance which i attribute to putting the plug down another 3/8" into the combustion chamber, this car has a distributor with a Pertronix system. My other car has the Ford system and the 1/"ips plugs i haven't driven it as it has a crankshaft problem, but before that it runs fine but without the finer adjustment of the distributor.

Rick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Monday, November 26, 2012 - 11:24 am:

You will notice the way the ground conductor is bent on the Champion X. That angle forms a drip loop and will allow oil to drip away from the gap, which decreases the incidence of fouling. I have been reading a book by Murray Fahnstock about the Model T and in the book he says the reason the Model T tends to foul the number 1 and 2 spark plug is that oil tends to run to the front of the crankcase when going downhill on compression. This extra oil is thrown up into the cylinders and is drawn past the rings by the compression. This excess oil is what fouls the plugs. This is the opposite of what some have posted on this forum about the first two cylinders running cold or lean. Anyway, if my Fahnstock was right, the design of the Champion X plug should help keep the plug from fouling.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Semprez-Templeton, CA on Monday, November 26, 2012 - 12:38 pm:

Dr. Dan, as Norm has discussed, plug fouling was a problem that the Champion X seemed to solve. The adapters were used in Fords (and other cars) back when to help solve the plug fouling problem, and was a hot seller for firms like J C Whitney, Western Auto and others in the last century.

Now that we again have access to the original Champion X design, I would go that way for a stock engine. The adapters sold today allow one to use modern plugs in the Model T, but as stated, aren't really necessary for a stock T. Just my educated opinion, with some experience tossed in.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank Harris from Long Beach & Big Bear on Monday, November 26, 2012 - 02:04 pm:

With a modified engine and using a distributor the modern plugs are the best because of the choice of heat ranges. If you have a wet plug just go one bump higher on that cylinder. Modern Champion plugs are a good selection because of the many heat ranges they offer. Champions usually last about five or six years and only cost $1.99 for a box of four at Amazon.com. Champion has twice as many heat ranges as Bosch so there is an 18 & 19 Champ equal to a 10 Bosch and a 14 15 16 Champ and a single 9 Bosch and so on


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison on Monday, November 26, 2012 - 09:29 pm:

Daniel, are you worried about what the judges think or do you simply want to drive your T? If it's the latter then its not an important difference. Beware of the anal retentive. They will spend your money.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Monday, November 26, 2012 - 09:54 pm:

I doubt many of us ever enter our cars in judged shows. While I have been a judge at MTFCI events I have never entered a Model T of my own in a judged event. Most Model T owners, like me, are interested in what works and what is cheapest to operate with the least amount of maintenance. Who gives a crap about judges?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Daniel McBride on Monday, November 26, 2012 - 10:14 pm:

I appreciate all the input. All things considered then, I think I'm a Champion X guy; though I do not plan to show, just drive an average stock '26 Tudor.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison on Monday, November 26, 2012 - 10:18 pm:

The anal retentive give a crap about judges. Why else would so many people worry about where the hell their floor boards come from, or if they run Champion X plugs or if the top fabric is period or who the hell cares. Last year I went to the National meet in Rochester and there was a hayfield full of people who gave a crap. All that said you still wouldn't find me wasting time I'd never get back before I die worrying about whether my Model T was just like Henry intended. I like to have my car like Henry designed it because it makes sense but whether I run Motorcraft or Champion don't mean squat to me. But Royce, what was your purpose for asking?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JohnH on Monday, November 26, 2012 - 10:46 pm:

Modern plugs with adapters were a total failure when I tried them. I used the highest heat range ones I could get but top speed was poor and overheating was evident. However, this was with coils on 6V so everyone else probably wouldn't notice the difference. Perhaps the fact the moderns don't protrude so far into the combustion chamber might have something to do with it.
Lodge or Champion X made it behave like a totally different car and that's all I'll use now. The X's have been in there about 6 years now and are still like new.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Monday, November 26, 2012 - 10:48 pm:

The X plugs are cheap and work best. I can't imagine why anyone who has ever owned a set would ever need another spark plug for that Model T, because they are permanent plugs that never wear out.

I've purchased a hundred or more Champion X plugs for under $5 apiece at swap meets and on eBay over the past 15 years. At one point a few years ago I bought a box of 25 NOS Champion X refills on eBay for $19.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, November 26, 2012 - 11:05 pm:

Yes, it pays to shop around.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Monday, November 26, 2012 - 11:18 pm:

Fergit' ebay tho' Steve,.......Royce gits 'em all!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dean Yoder on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 - 04:47 am:

Royce,
I am Sorry! You pissed me off.
You are so full if it your eyes must be brown.
True fact My 16 year average is 54000+ miles per year. I run adaptors. Plugs last me the full year. Now with 50,000 miles on my engine I need to replace #1 & #4 plugs every year.
Please stop spreading BS.

P.S. My mileage is mostly GPS documented.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 - 07:07 am:

Dean, take a breath. We all know it's just Royce.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 - 08:36 am:

Dean,

I don't say anything that is not fact. Also, I don't go out of my way to attack anyone personally as you seem to enjoy. What are you so upset about? If I had nothing to do every day but drive around I would. However I have a day job and restore cars in my spare time. So I won't be approaching your annual totals any time soon.

I do wish you would respect the fact that a Model T is perfectly reliable without modern electronics or flimsy aftermarket clutches.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Seager on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 - 12:05 pm:

Dean, Hats off to you very few people will stand up to Royces BS!!!!!!! Mike


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 - 12:41 pm:

I put new Champion 25's in my T when I got it because that is what was there.

Later I found 3 Champion Xs in a box. Should I attempt to clean them up and get another one?



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 - 02:35 pm:

All of those plugs look restorable Fred. Obviously the Model A plug at lower left is not going to help a T very much. Those Champion X plugs are pre - 1923 or thereabouts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Todd on Wednesday, November 28, 2012 - 10:44 am:

If that AC 26 you have there is in usable condition it will work well in a T.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison on Wednesday, November 28, 2012 - 10:51 am:

Fred, those plugs aren't any good for anything. Go ahead and IM me and I'll send my address back to you and you can send them to me. I'll dispose of them for you.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Wednesday, November 28, 2012 - 10:57 am:

Here is shot of Dean's T with the modern plugs and adapters that work well for him. Note that the cyl head is an aftermarket, with different plug location probably vs. the stock iron high head others run on their cars.



Maybe that is a good use for modern plugs, with adapters, in cyl heads that weren't necessarily designed for the Champion X that Ford required and recommended for the T.


"Z", Ricardo , and Ford head combustion chambers.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, November 28, 2012 - 11:32 pm:

Fred, those unribbed X's would be very appropriate for your 1919. They look like they should clean up very nicely. Here's a slightly later version.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Todd on Thursday, November 29, 2012 - 11:40 am:

Copied this from ? a few years ago, don't know if it works or not.

Spark Plugs Mod
Get yourself some hex-head 1/2" pipe plugs. From the head end, in the lathe, drill them clear through 1/4". Then, drill them 1/2" all but the bottom 1/4" and tap for 14mm. Face off the top square to the bore and round all sharp edges. Install these with short reach 14mm plugs(probably like what is in your lawn mower) and you can forget about fouled plugs. This creates a lean burn area which is hotter and easier to ignite.


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