The New York Seattle 1909 race car: where was the gas tank?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: The New York Seattle 1909 race car: where was the gas tank?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matthew Atchinson on Monday, November 26, 2012 - 11:33 pm:

Hey guys,

So I have always been intrigued by these two cars. My question is this: the seats, while high enough to not require lowering of the steering column evidently, seem too low to house the gas tank underneath them. Where then, is the gas tank? Is it in that small box behind the seats? If so, is it raised up high to get better flow, or sitting on boards low to the frame? I have always been rather curious about this.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 - 12:04 am:

Mathew,
It appears to me the tank is under the seats. This pic, from a earlier thread shows some of the items under the tarp. This is similar to the under the seat arrangement NRS's have. Great observation. I "stole" this pic from the thread below.

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/144078.html?1275767928


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matthew Atchinson on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 - 12:25 am:

Thanks for the response. Upon closer inspection it does look like it can fit under there. I have another question i've also always wondered: how does that back leather flap cover work? The link shows wooden slats that slip into the side, but how does the front of the flap fit to the back of the seats? Or does it depend solely on the slats and nothing else to hold stuff in place. These two cars fascinate me. Also, i've heard conflicting stories: was the engine or the front axle replaced on car #2?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 - 12:30 am:

Matthew,

The 1909 race intrigues me for many reasons. For one, it is the classic "Goliath vs. David" race, with the Ford T against the expensive, big opponent. Secondly, I find it incredible that Ford allowed a 2 year old Model K (that Henry "detested", according to current views) be the "pace car" for this much publicized contest.

Rob

From a previous forum thread: K photo contributed by Dan Treace.

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50893/69608.html?1224454126

And this Ford Model K was the pace car for the Ocean to Ocean race from New York to the last of the speed limited states, thereafter the racers could run at any speed, day or night to finish the race to Seattle.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 - 12:59 am:

More on the beginning of the race, and mention of the "6-40 K" Ford by an official of the race riding in the K.
It doesn't seem to me a "weak car" would be chosen as the pace car all the way to St. Louis nor would Ford have allowed the K be selected if it were so poorly thought of.

Notice at the end of this review the T beats the pace car (Ford Model K)

"A Ford Model K6-40 roadster had been selected as official pacemaker's car to St. Louis, and this car, driven by F. W. Teves and carrying Pacemaker John Gerrie, preceded the cars on this part of the journey.

By referring to the rules as pointed on page 24 of this book [see below] it will be noted tha the first day's run terminated at Poughkeepsie - only 73 miles - but it lay in the mountains and the 3 hours and 40 minutes required to traverse that distance reflects credit on all the cars. The Ford car No. 1 arrived there with the Pacemaker - the other entrants all arrived within 20 minutes.

The run to St. Louis arranged by daily schedule passed without incident unless the arrival of both the Fords together and from two to six hours in advance of any competitor at the various controls can be cited as interesting incidents.

Buffalo to Cleveland, 196 miles, was made by the two Ford cars in seven hours and 30 minutes, these cars passing all contestants and arriving at Cleveland one hour and 15 minutes ahead. Then leaving Cleveland, all contestants together and in the rain, the 125 miles to Toledo was a drive through the mud. Here the light Ford cars had the advantage, and arrived in Toledo ahead of schedule, the only cars to arrive on time and four hours ahead of [the] Shawmut, the next to arrive.

Quoting Pacemaker, John Gerrie:
"The tenacity of the little Ford contestants was an eye-opener to me," said Mr. Gerrie. "Though I made the pace I a six cylinder car that took the grades as easily as the levels I found it impossible ever to get away from the midget competitors. On the famous Tribes Hill in the Mohawk Valley and the heartbreaking Camillus Hill near Syracuse, Ford car No. 2 actually beat the pacemaker to the top." - N.Y. Herald"


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Sean Gregory on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 - 01:47 am:

What are recommended reads for that event?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 - 01:54 am:

Ah, the gasoline tank!? A longtime friend of mine, has one of the better recreations of car number one. It was originally built for a run in the Baja 1000 race back in the '70s. After the Baja efforts were over, he acquired it from his father and the good friend that built it. He rounded up many of the correct parts for it and re-restored (?) it. He painted it more correct (he hopes) as well as using most of the earlier parts. He did a lot of research to make the car "more correct". He says that the gasoline tank is mounted under the rear cover, fairly high, behind the seat.
Why do you not see it in the finish line photos? That was discussed considerably in another previous forum, so I am recounting from memory. Supposedly, there was a well documented incident near the end of the race (less than 500 miles to go?) that while pouring gasoline into the tank, a smoking passerby accidentally ignited the fuel resulting in significant damage to the car including a ruptured tank. (Remember, there were no gas stations yet. You bought gasoline in cans, then poured it into your tank.) The five gallon oil can you see sitting on the floorboards was the rigged-up replacement tank in order to finish the race.
The first link above goes to another thread on these cars and shows one of the cars with one wheel bogged down in a river (at least we in the West call that a river, I know you guys in the mid-West and East would laugh at that). If you look carefully at the half-draped rear cover, you can see the outline of the end of the gasoline tank. I have seen clearer copies of that photo.
Okay, who out-typed my stiff old fingers?
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 - 02:18 am:

The following links also have photos showing the cover loose enough to reveal the partial outline of what appears to be the gasoline tank.

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/179374/188876.html?1297210769

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/179374/185836.html?1296173719

Someday I have got to figure out how to copy photos off the web. Lots of people do it. My son can do it. When I try, usually the computer gets all messed up.

Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 - 10:19 am:

Sean

There are two 'reads' that are best for the Ocean to Ocean 1909 race.

The Ford pamphlet (reprints avail from vendors)
'The Story of the Race'

and 'Coast-to-Coast Auto Races of the Early 1900's', Curt McConnell, SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers, Inc) ISBN 0-7680-0604-X web site www.sae.org/BOOKSTORE

This book covers in detail with great 3 races, 1905 Curved Dash Olds from NYC to Portland Or.....America's crossing during the 1908 New York - Paris contest.....and the 1909 New York - Seattle race.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Hjortnaes, Men Falls, WI on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 - 10:48 am:

Maybe we all need to take our cars out to Rob's place and wait for a really rainy day. Then we can race the 'K' against the T's and see who wins.

Wonder how much mud Rob has in the fields?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 - 11:20 am:

To Wayne Sheldon:

To save photos on the web to your computer, put the cursor over the image and then right click with your mouse.

A small window will open and which will allow you to save the image to your computer. When you save it, you can also rename it if you wish.

Noted: if the image you are trying to download and save has been protected, then you won't be able to save it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thomas Mullin on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 - 01:23 pm:

Erik,

If an image is protected, you can still do a screen capture of it at your display resolution. Not as good as Shorpy, of course, but it is decent.

I use Snag-It from TechSmith for my screen capture tool.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 - 01:36 pm:

I now save "screen shots" to my iPad or iPhone. It is really easy, and I'm able to enlarge or reduce the pic very easily. For example, two shots of this screen. Also, I'm able to edit very easily and upload directly from either (if of course, you have a "smart phone" and/or iPad/tablet).




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Brancaccio - Calgary Alberta on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 - 02:13 pm:

Rob, I think we may have to make you assistant webmaster or something like that!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 - 04:04 pm:

Chris,

If you think you have website problems now...........

Computers are like my Fords, I know how to use them, but not very good at fixing em.

Rob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 - 04:28 pm:

Strange, when I posted this thread didn't move to the top of the threads? Same thing happened a few days ago.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 - 04:31 pm:

What's more, this is the screen I get after "posting" and I have to reload the website.

375744685.620988.jpg


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