I just want folks to know that if you run across a 1926 FORD model T for sale in Union City Indiana by a seller named Dan watch out. I paid for this car 5 weeks ago and he keeps insisting my cashiers check has not cleared when I have the copy to prove it has. He won't refund my money or let me pick up the car. This sort of thing really ruins the hobby.
You might be able to get some help here:
http://www.in.gov/attorneygeneral/
Cashiers checks are not the way to pay or receive for anything. I found that out when a man gave me one for my '27 T Touring. He gave it to me and left with the car. It took 10 days to clear. Luckly, it did clear, but the Model T was gone for 10 days. Crazy things went through mind(what mind) thinking it was gone. Stripped for parts and so on.
You know I never had an issue with a cashiers check until now. I've bought and sold cars for years and no problem. I'll tell you what though, never again!
Did he convince you to make the Bill of Sale for a small amount? Big trap: ask Spider Huff.
Although it would be easier to start proceedings if you both lived in the same state, you can always file suit in his state, thru an attorney. I wonder, is his signature on the check?
If things are as you think, ie he cashed the check vs it was cashed by someone else using his name, a phone call from an attorney should straighten him out. Its such a clear case I question why is doing this. Probably because he lives in another state and figures you won't go to the expense and trouble of going after him.
If it were me, and I were comfortable with the facts, I'd have an attorney in his state call him and say that unless you received your payment immediately, you would be filing suit against him not only to recover your payment, but to ask for punitive damages and attorney's fees because of fraud. Never hurts to point out that he will have to hire an attorney to defend your action. Also have the attorney state that he will inform the DA for follow up criminal investigation.
If things are as you say, it should be pretty easy to get your money back.
There are crooks in this world, hobby or not.
Wow Richard, sorry about that. I didn't realize there would be a holding on it. Still have the car BTW.
I felt comfortable with the deal when it was started. originally I was going to drive to his house and pick it up, pay him in cash...etc... Uhaul wouldn't let me rent a hauler from them because my truck only had a 4000lb hitch so we altered the deal to paying with a cashiers check and a transport service. He says his bank won't release the funds to him but after 5 weeks i've got to draw the line somewhere...
Where is the title???? Did you get a Bill of Sale?? If you have the title and can prove that the check has cleared the bank, drop by the Sheriff's office and, at least in Montana, they will send a deputy out to explain fraud to him. As Dick said, the Attorney General or State Justice Department may lean on him for you.
I guess I would have to ask what proof you have that the Cashier's check has cleared? Do you have something from your bank?
I have a copy of the check, endorsed by him, and stamped by his bank. I had my bank dig into it. He swears its out for "collecting" and that everything is good. No title as of yet because he won't release it until payment clears... i'm inclined to think his bank is the real issue as it took them 3 weeks just to present it to my bank for cashing. We're now on week 5. If the guy's bank really is jerking him around that bites.
At this point i'm not saying more either way, just wanted folks to be aware that this T is involved in some trouble that hopefully will be resolved soon.
Have you or your bank contacted his bank to determine the status of the transaction on his end?
Banks can take up to 30 days to clear a check. Especially if it's out-of-town or outside the clearing house area. A check hasn't "cleared" until his bank gets the money. The stamp on the back simply means his bank has accepted the check. It hasn't cleared at that point.
I personally wouldn't let a car go with any kind of check. A check is a check. It doesn't matter if it's a bank check, cashier's check or money order. You should have sent a postal money order as deposit to hold the car then go pick it up with cash in hand.
By the way, a PMO (postal money order) is as good as cash. You can take that to any post office and get cash or they will tell you it's fake right then and there.
The fact that he is still talking to you would lead me to believe it is a banking issue, as I would think if he had scammed you, he would simply have stopped all communications with you. I hope this all gets sorted out soon for you, what a PITA
Believe it or not banks can make a mistake.
The one we deal with is close and handy BUT they have a system which has your different accounts under one ID number and from time to time withdrawels can get switched when making a transaction.
I would go in and talk to an accounts mgr. Not somebody at the window.
Tell them your situation and go from there.
Years ago, I bought and paid for something on eBay but never received the product. I live in Oregon, the seller lived in Texas. I made several calls and sent several emails but never got my product even after two months.
So I figured out what county the guy lived in and contacted the sheriff there through email, explaining the situation and giving them the name and address of the seller.
Three days later, after contacting the sheriff, I had a package in Fed-X ALONG with a full refund. I'm guessing the sheriff deputy put the fraud fear into the guy real good, grin....
No dice gentlemen, a valid cashier's check from any state in the Union does not take any legitimate bank more that 5 minutes to authenticate. J.G., you need to show up at this clown's door with a Sheriff's Deputy and your endorsed check statement.
Regards,
Scott
Well guys I'm sorry to see it go this way...I appreciate some of the comments that don't jump to judgment, but for those who do, just tells me that you would be just as cautious as I have been. I don't dispute much of what has been explained...but there is more...Buyer agrees to pay cash at pickup. After a few scheduled pickups were changed by the Buyer, he decides he is going to send a cashiers check and hire someone to pick up the car. I receive a cashiers check with someone else listed as the payor. Maybe I over think it, but I know there is a lot of scamming going on, so when I take the check to my bank, I explain what the check is for, and that I would like to verify its authenticity. They recommend a "domestic check collection" which costs me $25 and could take 2-3 weeks or longer because of the holiday. I tell them to hold up and I go back home and notify the Buyer what they had just told me. I also tell him that I would be glad to send the check back to him and he could come at a later time, if he still wanted to purchase the car. He tells me to proceed with the check. So I take the check back to my bank, I endorse it and fill out some paper work for the “domestic check collection”. Four days later he starts emailing me wanting to pick up the car. I tell him there is no way I am releasing the car until the check clears. A couple weeks go by…I know he is frustrated, and I’m calling my bank every other day to try to speed things along. At this point I don’t even know which bank is holding things up! As of the first of this week the Buyer says his bank gave him a copy of the endorsed check. My bank still has not released any funds! Today I went to my bank and asked to cancel the entire transaction and send his money back to him. They said I could not cancel and that we would have to wait on the collection process. I have assured the Buyer several times that I will return his money in full, as soon as I get it.
Neither he or I have any protection in this transaction…we have no contract or written agreement. The original agreement was cash at pickup and conveying the title then too. But when he decided to send a cashiers check, we agreed that I was to let him know when I receive the funds from the bank, then he would arrange to pickup the car and I would mail him the title. We even talked about me storing the car in the garage until he was able to arrange pickup. Dan
ALways nice to hear both sides of the story. Thanks, Dan.
Back in another life, before 30 years in the auction business, I was an Elementary teacher and, for a couple of years, an Elementary principal. I learned pretty quickly that there are at least four stories for every incident. The kid's story, the teacher's story, the parent's version of the kid's story and what really happened. The principal's job was to listen to them all and figure out what really happened. Works in other places, too.
Your posts on this matter:
" I just want folks to know that if you run across a 1926 FORD model T for sale in Union City Indiana by a seller named Dan watch out. I paid for this car 5 weeks ago and he keeps insisting my cashiers check has not cleared when I have the copy to prove it has. He won't refund my money or let me pick up the car. This sort of thing really ruins the hobby. "
" I felt comfortable with the deal when it was started. originally I was going to drive to his house and pick it up, pay him in cash...etc... Uhaul wouldn't let me rent a hauler from them because my truck only had a 4000lb hitch so we altered the deal to paying with a cashiers check and a transport service. He says his bank won't release the funds to him but after 5 weeks i've got to draw the line somewhere... "
" I have a copy of the check, endorsed by him, and stamped by his bank. I had my bank dig into it. He swears its out for "collecting" and that everything is good. No title as of yet because he won't release it until payment clears... i'm inclined to think his bank is the real issue as it took them 3 weeks just to present it to my bank for cashing. We're now on week 5. If the guy's bank really is jerking him around that bites.
At this point i'm not saying more either way, just wanted folks to be aware that this T is involved in some trouble that hopefully will be resolved soon. "
-------------------------------------------------
What is MISSING from your posts is how you found the car - whether you have seen the car in person - how you agreed to a sale price - whether you have talked to the Seller over the phone or in person ......
Bay City, Michigan to Union City, Indiana is only 300 miles @ http://goo.gl/maps/2C85L
300 miles ? ? ?
Why didn't you just buy the car in cash - in person - then flatbed it away to local storage
or pay to have it hauled back to where you live ?
Sorry, but to pay for a car by cashiers check and then wait
for weeks for " the check to clear " does not make sense when you live 300
miles away ........
Jim
Mr. Alvord, it appears you left out a few facts. I sure wish folks would be more forthcoming when they choose to get advice. Last time I will get drawn into this sort of thing.
Gary;
Were you the guy that bought the car? Hope it was what I said it was.
A Cashier's Check is a Barer's Note, guaranteeing that your name on the check and your valid ID grants you immediate payment at any legitimate bank where you have an account. Buyer, you agreed to specific terms, then significantly changed the plan to the confusion of the Seller. Then you post a smear on this guy implying that you have been at least wrongly inconvenienced? you are not without fault here. Not at all clear what your concern was Seller...your over-reactions also fueled this unnecessary fiasco. You could have walked out of your bank with cash in hand, the title legally transferred out of your possession, and been done with it. Any question about the source of the check could and should have been handled with a phone call, not the archaic process described here.
Regards,
Scott
"A Cashier's Check is a Barer's Note, guaranteeing that your name on the check and your valid ID grants you immediate payment at any legitimate bank where you have an account."
If you present a personal check at the bank it was drawn on, you used to be able to demand payment immediately. Is that not still true?
B/A bounced a check that had been stopped payment after my son deposited it in his non-B/A account. He could get no relief. I still think B/A screwed him, because the account had the funds at the time.
rdr
I doubt you can get "on demand" payment nowadays, as I notice when I deposit a check in my BofA account, I'm only credited with $300 of it until the next banking day. Obviously, BofA is making money on the "float" they have artificially created. This is even true on a check FROM a BofA account.
I wrote a check to my church for $12; their bank bounced it back, claiming they couldn't read the check routing numbers AND charged the Church account $20 for bouncing it. In all the years I have used these checks, this is the only bank having problems with them. BofA says it's not them causing the problem. Today I think I'll stop by the Church's bank and raise holly hell (that phrase seems very appropriate in this instance! ).
Banks AAARGH!!
T'
David D.
Richard, I'm the guy. That car runs awesome! The distributor that was on it wasn't set exactly right and the timing was very late. I put it back on coils and advanced the cam gear by 1/2 tooth and it is very strong and will run along better than 55 MPH. That engine btw is as smooth as an electric motor.
I'll remember that about the cashiers check. I never gave it any thought. Will in the future.
Thanks Dan for commenting on this,
Firstly, I have small house/yard/garage so keeping a trailer around for use every 2-3 years is not practical. Dan responded to an ad I placed looking for a T and we agreed on a price. I was all set to pick it up until I went to uhaul the evening before the trip and they informed my a 4000lb hitch would not work. yikes! No worry though, I know a guy who moves cars around and was in that area weekly... Throughout all of this I kept dan informed as to what was going on as soon as I knew information.
The real issue here is the Indiana bank and some mis-communication. I've bought cars from CA to NY, wired funds and paid with cashiers checks and never had a problem. Dan originally said his bank would require 2-3 days to cash it, No problem as that was quicker than I expected. Shortly after he writes stating that he picked up the check and will return it because his bank will take 3-4 weeks. While I though that strange I can live with that. At week 3 i'm writing Dan as to the status of the check and he's looking into it... this is when "domestic check collection" comes onto the scene. After nearly 2 weeks of that I go to my bank and start inquiring about this process. My bank says they're never heard of it so I get a copy of the endorsed check. After talking with several people in several parts of my bank i'm advised that this is not normal for such a straight forward simple transaction and I should be concerned.
Its at this point I turn the heat up, after all its been nearly 5 weeks since the funds left my account and no one can seem to explain what is really going on. I wrote Dan with a date I needed the transaction completed by and posted here.
Within 24 hours I had a copy of Dans bank paperwork and a conversation with his bank. Both his bank employee and paperwork stated that this was a 4-10 week process. Why he didn't tell me that weeks ago I have no idea, it would have taken care of the issue. I can't fault the bank because it is clearly stated on the form for the Domestic Check Cashing request. Finding out its a 4-10 week process at week 5 is not cool.
Long story short I hold no ill will towards Dan, we just had some communication issues and are being held hostage by his bank. I've been into the vintage car scene for 20 years now and never bumped into this bank issue.
Both Dan and I will be dealing in cash from now on i'm sure. I have no doubt the funds will be returned and we are just waiting on the bank to complete this.
Sounds like its time to start a list of banks not to do business with. B of A has been at the top of my avoid list for 20 years.
Bill
Wow. I'm new to all this. I always thought a cashiers check was same as cash. I recently made an offer on a "T" and the owner insisted on cash. I felt uneasy traveling with that much cash and suggested cashiers check. He insisted on cash. Also, no title only bill of sale. I felt uneasy and passed up the deal. Too bad. I had dreamed of owning that exact make and model since I was 14 years old (now almost 70).
B of A has been on the top of my avoid list for close to 30 years.
But I let them pay off some of my high interest credit cards in 2009. That was a mistake. They paid more than I owed each one. I got a refund check from each but I ended up owing B of A more than I had bargained for.
Today I just found out my Oct. payment didn't go through.
I have had too much grief with them.
Yesterday when I went to make the payment the site was messed up... AGAIN!
Here in Hayward the B of A is next to Wells Fargo.
I decide to go to Wells direct instead of mailing my mortgage payment and after parking I accidently went into B of A. What scarey place it was. Looked like a bus station with homeless bums hanging around. Not up to par with other banks of the day. Unfriendly tellers, etc.
Other banks here in the SF Bay area are super helpful and friendly.
I had been a long time and happy customer of Washington Mutual (WaMu) until they were bought out by JP Morgan Chase. While WaMu was seeing some difficulties as a corporation, the customer service was still great until Chase took over. My experience with them became a disaster and I happily switched my accounts to a good sized local credit union. I couldn't be happier with the service at the credit union. Ah, I also have checking and credit card accounts at USAA. Am very pleased with them as well.
My last experience with BofA was in 1960. They did 3 things I didn't like. Two of them were before I closed the account and the third happened when I closed it.
1. We moved to a different city and I went down to BofA and told them I wanted to transfer our account from one branch to the other. Later we wrote a check to pay our doctor in the former city. It went to the former bank account which paid it. Then we got a statement and found that the money had not been transferred to the new account. We took care of that.
2. We had an account where you pay for 10 checks and after they had been used, you paid for 10 additional checks. We were writing too many checks for that plan so my wife went to the bank to get it changed to a regular checking account. I wrote a check and it bounced because they put the new account in only her name.
3. We opened an account with a different bank and waited till all the BoA checks had been cleared. Then we went down to BofA to close the account. The lady told me to write a check for the balance in the account and take it to the teller. We did that and the teller said,"I can't cash that because the account has been closed. I told her, "That is why we are closing the account, because your bank can't get anything straight.
We haven't had problems with any other banks.
Norm
I opened a checking account with Boatmen's National Bank of St Louis ("Oldest Bank West of the Mississippi") in 1968. Some years ago, Boatmen's was merged into NationsBank and ultimately NationsBank became part of Bank of America (or vice versa). My six-digit Boatmen's account number is now a 12-digit BofA account number (Nations added three digits at the front, and BofA added three more). I've had no complaints. The people at my nearby local branch have been great. In 2001, I started having to meet personally with every applicant for a Dutch passport or visa. Since I work from my home, I didn't want a bunch of strangers coming here all the time. I had noticed that the bank had a small conference room that they rarely used and asked the manager if I could use it. She said that of course I could, so for about eight years, that was my "office."
I just opened a checking account at BB&T bank. Couldn't understand the statement, it was so screwed up. Then, I found out they charge me to use my debit card at THEIR ATM to draw out my own money. Their story was, "Oh, when you use your debit card at a store, just ask them for extra cash,like Walmart or a grocery". So when the bank is closed, I have to buy something at a store to get my own money out of the bank.
We used to have a hyper Canuck salesman in our office, nicknamed the Grey Tornado. He was only 43, but his hair was all grey. We also had a White Tornado in that office.
The Grey Tornado made a down payment on a house to the tune of $10K. BofA bounced it, and he was so mad he went in the local branch, ranting and raving, getting the whole bank's attention, then stormed out.
The bank called our secretary a while later, and asked her to come get his briefcase; the bomb squad was done with it...
I have lots more stories about the Grey Tornado, some about his Canadian-built 455 Olds.
I've avoided BofA ever since 1958.
Walt, I too was a loyal WaMu customer. Hated to see the change. They had the best customer service of just about any commercial enterprise I have conducted business with. I stayed with Chase after they took over but only because I got to deal with the same people as before at the branch and (mostly) I was too lazy to go find another bank...grin..
Now US Bank - don't get me started.
I've been with a Credit Union almost my whole life. I would never go back to a bank again.
Blaming Banks ????
READ the Thread Folks ....
The guy who started it agreed to buy a car for cash in person, he lives 300 miles away from the Seller.
After several scheduled appointments, this guy changes the method of payment to a cashiers check.
A cashiers check that lists someone else as the Payee.
That is a third party check.
The Seller asks his bank what to do - and does it.
The prospective Buyer should have never started this Thread, he called the character of the Seller into question ....
After the prospective Buyer changed the terms of the sale.
As that guy stated in his first post:
" This sort of thing really ruins the hobby. "
I agree ......
Jim
Correction to my post above ...
The PAYOR was not the same on the cashiers check
as the BUYER - I stated it was the PAYEE.
This is a quote from the Seller:
" After a few scheduled pickups were changed by the Buyer, he decides he is going to send a cashiers check and hire someone to pick up the car. I receive a cashiers check with someone else listed as the payor. Maybe I over think it, but I know there is a lot of scamming going on, so when I take the check to my bank, I explain what the check is for, and that I would like to verify its authenticity. "
Jim
My last straw at a bank(cu member) was when I went in to pay off a loan where they held my title to my T for a 6mo loan. First they wanted to charge me 45 dollars to put their name on the title, I said no,they could keep the title in the file folder, won that one, then after about 4 mounts a cd came due so went in and paid of 70% of the note. On the day the full loan was due I came in and expected to pay less interest as I had made a payment, NOooo I got the line of bs that for the 2/3 months I had made the payment that the dollars were held in escrow and not as a payment made that day, the difference was almost $100 and so was pissed big time. I got my title back, and when they did not want to make it right,I cashed in the other cd, and cleaned out the savings and what was left in my checking. Got a dumb look on the staff and was never asked why I was leaving. DUH!
I have used cashiers checks many times without any problem. It is my understanding that you pay cash or draw from your own account to buy the cashiers check. That check is then made out to the payee. I wouldn't think the bank would issue a cashiers check if the payor did not have sufficient funds in his account. As long as the payee can identify himself, he should be able to cash the check or deposit it into his account. I don't know why there was a problem?
Norm