Is this legit?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Is this legit?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Thursday, December 06, 2012 - 10:40 am:

I received an email from felice.sais@libero.it with some pics of a T asking me what year it is. After all the hacking going on recently, I'm wondering whether this is legit before I answer it. Does anyone here know this sender?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Seth - Ohio on Thursday, December 06, 2012 - 10:44 am:

I don't know the sender but I would be careful about opening it. My question would be why would someone you don't know send you a private message instead of just posting the question to the general forum.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Townsend ; ^ ) Gresham, Orygun on Thursday, December 06, 2012 - 10:47 am:

I do not know the sender. Is a, "'dot' it" internet service provider one from Italy? I would be highly suspiccious. Sounds to me like someone trying to groom you.
-Keith


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Lodge - St Louis MO on Thursday, December 06, 2012 - 10:53 am:

I get five hits on his e-mail address, all Italian, and they seem to have to do with buying and selling various kinds of old cars. Just googling the name alone turns up someone on Italian Facebook, but I can't see much about him (since we are not FB friends and his profile is not freely available). If it's the same guy, his FB photo shows him with a girlfriend/significant other/wife.

He seems to be real and if he's not trying to sell you something, but just asking a question, it may be related to his apparent interest in old cars. I found a reference to a 1922 Model T in one of the hits.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Lodge - St Louis MO on Thursday, December 06, 2012 - 10:55 am:

PS. Keith, yes libero.it seems to be an Italian ISP.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bud Holzschuh - Panama City, FL on Thursday, December 06, 2012 - 10:55 am:

Sounds like you've already opened the email. So if you havn't got a virus yet (and its unlikely you would have) there's no harm in being helpful. (He already has your email address) He's not going to "hack" into your machine just from your email address anyway (I assume you have the normal Windows firewall installed or a router)

If he asks for money - simply don't reply. Then block his address in your email client and get on with having fun with you T !

schuh


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Walker on Thursday, December 06, 2012 - 05:30 pm:

Indications are Felice is curious about Model Ts; is trying to load information about Model T; and is trying to sell one particular Model T on that website that loosely translates as "Beautiful Cars of All Time".

Mike, you weren't trying to sell him a car, were you? J/K!

Fifteen years ago I was working with a bunch of Italians who were contracting locally. Naturally, I was remanded to orienting them with this part of Alabama.

I learned they are generally fascinated by American cars, especially early Fords. And they are disgusted by cars with big blocks, like my '68 Cadillac convertible. They couldn't believe anybody would motivate their car with 7,700 cc's, much less afford the gasoline.

They also thought Alabama was the steamiest place on Earth; that is, 'til they spent their vacations in Miami -- in the middle of August!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Thursday, December 06, 2012 - 08:31 pm:

OK, thanks for your input, Guys. I just thought it was suspicious that I was singled out for info on his car and wondered whether any others had gotten the same message. I'll go ahead and give it my best shot.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Thursday, December 06, 2012 - 09:09 pm:

Mike,

So far I've been unsuccessful in helping him ID the year of his Model T. I'm sure part of it is my inability to speak his language. He has sent me some photos and I have sent him a request for photos and or measurements of the firewall so we could tell if it is a 1923 and earlier body or 1924-25 body. But I may not have communicated it where he understood. I sent the following [or at least I think I did] to him:

From your photo you have a 1919 to 1927 radiator and radiator shell.

If you provide the measurements of the firewall/dash Cowl – we can determine which style radiator you have 1917-1923 or 1924-1927.

The 1917 – 1923 dashes are 61.9125 centimeters [24 3/8 inches] For 1917-early 1923 they were wood and during 1923 they were made in both wood and metal. Ref: http://mtfca.com/encyclo/C-D.htm#dash [Thank you Phil Mino for the excellent photos!]



The 1924-1925 dash is 71.12 centimeters [28 inches] wide



The 1909-1916 Model T Fords are called brass radiator Fords. The radiator is made from brass and is shaped as shown below:




See also: http://www.thebrassworks.net/shop/index.php?cPath=11_17 Your car does not have that.

The 1917 to 1923 Model T Fords are called a black radiator Ford. They were NOT the previous shape. Below is a 1918 Ford – the 1917 to 1922 looked the same.



The 1923 had the same size radiator but the windshield was slanted back some and is shown below (the equal length hinge came in late in 1924 model year) (Thank you Mark of Model T Haven for posting the photo's)



The radiator was made a little taller for 1924 and the same size was used 1924-1927 Below is a photo of a 1925.





Your car has the 1924 to 1925 car (1924-1927 Ton Truck) fenders with the lip.

Your car has the 1909-1918 Front spring perches

_________________

Below are some of the photos he sent -- resized.









I think it is probably a 1923-1925 Runabout body with a different turtle deck fitted. But from the photos that I have I cannot see if the steering column has the steering column bracket typical of the 1924-25 cars. I also cannot see the hood shelf where it meets the cowl which would make it easy to tell if it is a 1924-25 with the "dog leg" at the end of the hood shelf or the earlier style. And the fenders with the lip are the typical 1924-25 car and 1924-1927 Ton Truck. They would be correct for a 1924-25 but I don't know if they are original to the chassis or not. The engine has a regular starter and generator.

Respectfully posted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Thursday, December 06, 2012 - 09:38 pm:

I don't know whether it's a US body or a European one. If it's US, it's pre-'24, or at least has a pre-'24-type turtle. With the starter/generator, instrument panel, demountable wheels, two-man top, and slanted windshield, I'm thinking it's a '23. The high hood/radiator/cowl would suggest '24, but not with the earlier top (?). The radiator splash apron is different, but that might be a European thing. It also has some "dress-up" features, such as pin striping and top straps to the headlights, so who knows how much of the car is original to any one year?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Thursday, December 06, 2012 - 11:36 pm:

The top and windshield are not in any way typical U.S. production. For one thing, they both appear taller. The top irons have offsets and the folding brackets are all different than U.S. Ford.
It makes it tough to give an accurate year when there is so much about the car that is different and may or may not have been changed.

I am still curious how he found Mike Walker
Drive carefully, and enjoy the holidays! W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Friday, December 07, 2012 - 07:25 am:

Wayne,

One likely way (there are probably other ways also) he found Mike Walker and earlier me would be by reviewing some of the forum postings. If someone Googles “Model T Ford” and then clicks on “clubs” the MTFCA is the first club listed. And the next step is to go to the forum. Just now when I went to our forum and looked through the first 5 postings (some short -- some longer) as a person I could easily obtain the e-mail address for the following three folks:

Hap [it in my profile – but I receive more good information than spam by having it there. ]

Dan Treace [profile points to personal web site [lots of good T stuff] with a contact page. It has a nice feature – where a person would have to read the letters and type them in to send the contact request. That currently prevents the automated searches from sending him spam. ]

Steve Jelf [profile points to personal web site that has e-mail address – and lots of interesting T stuff]

And since Mike is a regular poster – one of his postings could easily be near the top of the forum. And like me, he has his e-mail address listed in his profile.

As time goes on, I may need to remove my e-mail address from my profile, but so far I have received many more good photos and information than I have SPAM. And unless the topic of the e-mail looks Ford related – I will usually just delete it.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Friday, December 07, 2012 - 07:53 am:

One reason I went ahead and posted the photos is I could not quickly figure out the year or the body and while I had received some additional photos they did not clearly show the areas that would answer the mystery. I have changed the contrast and cropped the photo. Note that the rear deck is not a standard runabout deck. Rather it is shaped like a small boat tail deck.



Notice if it was a 1923 - 25 runabout body it would have the top rest bracket coming through the side of the body – or the plug covering the hole in the panel – but it does not. Looking at it closer it appears to have the rounded lower corner where the door would fit against the body. If so, I think it may have been a cut off that once served as a pickup and then a later owner may have modified it to look like a boat tailed runabout. Again, with the photos currently available it is difficult for me to say for sure what is there. Clearly it is not as originally produced by the USA, Canada, or English Ford plants. Hopefully we will receive a few additional photos that will provide the answers.

I still do not see enough to say for sure if it is a 1923 and earlier body or a 1924-25 model year body. I will send him an e-mail pointing him to this thread.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Friday, December 07, 2012 - 11:30 am:

There are enough "different" features of this car that I'm wondering whether it was produced in Europe. Some pics of French Model T's have been posted here which have beautiful lines and are much more different from US production than this car is. I really don't know anything about those European bodies, but I agree with Hap that at least parts of this car are not regular USA or Canada production.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Derek Kiefer - Mantorville, MN on Friday, December 07, 2012 - 11:43 am:

It looks to me like a high-hood (24-25) cut-off touring with some metal work done to try making it look more like a factory runabout, and an earlier top that doesn't quite fit the slanted windshield.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Friday, December 07, 2012 - 11:45 am:

The pin stripping on the door panel and top edge of the body seem to accent the "rake" in the body lines. Low at the windshield and rising towards the rear. It also makes the door panel look crooked. That rake wasn't standard Ford was it?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Derek Kiefer - Mantorville, MN on Friday, December 07, 2012 - 05:00 pm:

I'd say it's most likely a cut-off 1924 Touring.

The front picture shows the longer lower door hinge. The side shows a high-hood cowl, and the shape of the seat and smooth side below where the rear door would be all look correct for a Touring. The body does look like it's sloped a bit and the panel below the rear door area looks a bit tall, but if the lower body was rusted and wood rotten, the builder may have just fabbed it however he felt like building it, or to whatever size he thought looked best or fit the material he had...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Saturday, December 08, 2012 - 01:14 am:

That is one of the things I really love about this forum. Someone that no one here knows, speaks little English, sends a few unsolicited emails to a couple of regular posters. In spite of good reasons to be suspicious, the next thing you know, more than a half dozen people are sharing photos. Looking them over and trying to answer his questions. Plus they're hoping for more photos from him to look at so they can give better answers.

If only the rest of the world could be more like model T people in general and this forum in particular. I then might not have such a bad outlook on life.
Drive carefully, and enjoy the holidays! W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Deichmann, Blistrup, Denmark on Saturday, December 08, 2012 - 03:43 am:

Ford established an assembly plant in the north italian city of Triest in 1922, so if it has full italian history, it's likely assembled there.
It was pretty common and well documented, that Ford had a lousy storage management, so there where not send carefully numbered trunks of parts so when new models was introduced, the factory may still have some of the old parts on stock. That lead to many transitional models where the new parts gradually showed up on the cars. Therefor you may see mixed cars and still be as original.
The body may be another story. Generally on the european assembly plants, the bodies came with the cars knocked down, but of course there could be tax reasons or other legislation that required a certain percent of the car was made locally. That was the terms for German Ford later in the 1930's. As mentioned we have seen some nice French Fords. However, on the first Danish assembly plant (1919) they primarily assembled Tourings only where other (closed) models was delivered assembled from either Detroit or Manchester.
It may have been the same in Italy so that this is either delivered as a running chassis or is a converted touring. Many tourings "lost" the rearend for a bed and this one may be in its "Sunday" configuration and have had a bed on workday in the rear.
Creativity was widespread back then too.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Saturday, December 08, 2012 - 11:18 am:

Thank you, Michael D., for that enlightening post. Most of us here in the US know little or nothing about Ford's European procedures in the 'teens and 20's.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By sais felice on Sunday, December 09, 2012 - 04:31 am:

this car was imported by the argentinian may have been assembled in argentina its number is 6148911


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By sais felice on Sunday, December 09, 2012 - 04:39 am:

because i have paint the radiator must be painted black


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By sais felice on Sunday, December 09, 2012 - 04:42 am:

i would buy another ford model t year 1915-1916 at what price you can 'do an affable someone


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By sais felice on Sunday, December 30, 2012 - 04:07 am:

and'possible that the production year is 1919 it has been stamped in 1922


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By sais felice on Sunday, December 30, 2012 - 05:32 am:

the brigde behind changed in 1925


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By sais felice on Sunday, December 30, 2012 - 05:38 am:

on the hub caps there 'written ford but industria legitima sign that was mounted in italy and after exported in argentina do not forget they could have made 15.000.000


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Sunday, December 30, 2012 - 12:01 pm:

Had to lighten up the photos to see details.

Appears to be runabout body, with special deck on the back. Could be a Ford assembly or an custom body work. The windshield, and top irons and top covering aren't Ford factory. Straps to the radiator mounts for the top are early design, unbefitting to this later body style.




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