Model t 1915 wont start HELP !!

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Model t 1915 wont start HELP !!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By RUEBEN PRICE on Thursday, December 13, 2012 - 01:33 pm:

wanna pick your brains !! got a 1915 model t, just brought it, its been stood a long while, when you go to crank it over the engine feels tight likes its half in gear, what could be wrong with this any suggestions ? qite stiff isnt like it should be, dont think i'd ever getted started like it is, i see something about the steel plates on the clutch part can get sticky so im wondering how i can get them freed do you know anything about the coil boxes, i'd like to get it started then might be able to free it off that way, one makes a noise should the other 3 make noises as you turn it over .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William L Vanderburg on Thursday, December 13, 2012 - 01:41 pm:

first of all, is it out of gear? Meaning, is it in neutral? The hand brake lever needs to be pulled back towards the front seat as far as it will come. At this point the car will turn over, but should not be able to be moved. If it does move, it won't be much.

Sometimes you can free the clutch disks by mashing all three pedals at once. You can also jack up one side of the rear wheels, and put the car in neutral. That will alleviate some of the drag.

As you turn the car over, each coil should buzz 1, 2, 4, 3.

Others will give more direction.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By RUEBEN PRICE on Thursday, December 13, 2012 - 02:19 pm:

i will give this a go, i have jacked the back wheel up and its took some of the drag off but its still quite stiff to turn over...only one of the coils seems to buzz, ive cleaned the points etc any ideas what else to do ??


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Yoest on Thursday, December 13, 2012 - 02:32 pm:

On a 1915 I assume you don't have an electric starter?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By RUEBEN PRICE on Thursday, December 13, 2012 - 02:40 pm:

no electric starter !!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Thursday, December 13, 2012 - 03:00 pm:

Clean out the timer.
Check ALL the wire connections on the firewall.
Check the brass tabs, bottom too, inside the coil box to make sure they are making good contact with the solder coil buttons.
If the one coil buzzes consistently it shouldn't be the switch.
Did you remove the spark plugs and pour a little light oil in the cylinders before you started cranking?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Claverie on Thursday, December 13, 2012 - 03:00 pm:

My first suggestion is: Tell us where you are, and we'll see if any other member is close enough to come give you a hand. We all love doing this, if we can get to you with some ease.

Sounds like the timer is dirty. It's the dome-shaped thing on the front of the engine, right side, with 4 wires attached. It's held in place by a metal strap. Loosen the bolt enough to swing the strap to the side, and remove the cotter pin from the rod through the tab on the top of the timer. Then pull it off.

It isn't necessary to remove the wires, as there should be enough play for you to be able to swing the timer up to where you can clean the inside.

Use thinner of some kind (kerosene, lacquer thinner, gasoline, etc.) to clean the inside of the timer. Then clean the roller similarly.

Put it all back together. If there is an oil flap on the dome, squirt a little motor oil in. If not, oil the roller's shaft, and that should do it.

Then re-try making the 4 coils buzz. If any one or two don't buzz as you crank the engine over (2 complete turns), try switching the coils around (they lift out of the box and slip back in). That will tell you whether the problem is the coil or the circuit, and sometimes just taking them out and putting them back cleans the contacts and solves a problem.

At some point, you need to have the coils professionally rebuilt and tuned. This is critical. You send them to one of the folks who advertise on this site. It takes a couple of weeks, and the cost is the best bucks you'll spend to make your T run right.

Put one or both ends of the rear axle on jack stands - not just a jack - wheels off the ground. Then put the brake lever all the way forward. This will make cranking as easy as it can be.

If the car has been stored a while, chances are the fuel system needs cleaning. Old gas evaporates and leaves a varnish-like coating that makes things in-operative. Taking the system apart and cleaning it thoroughly, is something you can tackle while the coils are off being rebuilt.

Most folks seem to think lacquer thinner is the best thing to use to de-gum the system, but there may be stuff sold at auto-parts houses that work well.

Under no circumstances should you try to use old gasoline. Make sure it's all fresh. Old gas doesn't vaporize.

Make sure you have fresh oil in the engine (and transmission - it's all the same). It should run out of the bottom petcock on the rear of the transmission, but when it starts to run out the top one, it's full.

These basics should get you started.

Let us know how it goes.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Thursday, December 13, 2012 - 03:04 pm:

Rueben

Yes, all 4 coils have to buzz as you crank over the T for all 4 cyl to revolve.

At least one will buzz at magneto speed of hand cranking so that means the T has a good magneto.

Start at the coil box, make sure all 4 are in and secure against the contacts, you may have to remove each and clean or adjust the contacts in the coilbox so the coils are in contact with the terminals.

Then check wiring to timer, remove and clean the timer roller contact and the contacts in the rim of the timer shell.

Remove the spark plugs, lay them on the cyl head, still wired to the dash terminals of the coil box, but in good ground on the cyl head, and then crank over. All four should throw a spark as you crank, if not, you have to replace or adjust the coils that won't fire.

The cranking will be tough, as oil in the crankcase and trans is old and stiff. Jack up the left rear wheel so it can spin as you crank, as the T only has a 'sort of ' neutral. The rear wheel will turn some even with the clutch lever upright, just don't have it pulled too far back to engage the rear emergency brake shoes. The turning rear wheel will give you a bit more momentum acting like a flywheel to help you turn over the motor.



These books will help you along the way too


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Claverie on Thursday, December 13, 2012 - 03:04 pm:

P. S. DO NOT ask on the Forum what oil to use!!!! That would start a thread a mile long, and when it's all said and done, use the same oil you put in your other cars.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Thursday, December 13, 2012 - 03:04 pm:

Rueben,
It is normal to have some drag on in the clutch disks and rearend, it is a Model T thing. You will never get a completely free clutch as you do on a more modern car. Once you get it started and get the oil circulating it should free up some. I hate to mention it but most suggest using a lighter oil. Without starting an engine oil discussion here, do a search for engine oil and read what has been wrote many times before.

About the coils, you really need to get or borrow or have your coils checked on a proper coil tester. There must be someone close to you that can help you out with the coils.

Other then that, be sure to read this "REMOVING A T FROM MOTHBALLS" thread:
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/269084.html

Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Thursday, December 13, 2012 - 03:09 pm:

You don't need to remove the timer wires to clean it. Leave them connected. You only need loosen the clamp bolt and remove the cotter pin on the timer rod.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By RUEBEN PRICE on Thursday, December 13, 2012 - 03:18 pm:

will give all your suggestions a try tomorrow but if any one is in uk near peterbough to lend a hand would be appretieted !!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, December 13, 2012 - 04:47 pm:

Lots of good advice here that should get you going. Here's a link for any new owner of a T, whether it's running yet or not:

http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG80.html

And here's one with information you'll need after it's running:

http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG79.html.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Henrichs on Thursday, December 13, 2012 - 05:04 pm:

When you jack up the rear wheels be sure to put chocks in place on the front wheels for safety. It's always possible to have the car slip off of or be bumped off the stands.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By RUEBEN PRICE on Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 12:51 pm:

thanks for all infomation managed to get her running...hooray !!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By RUEBEN PRICE on Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 12:56 pm:

has any one got a set of brake shoes and a steering wheel for my 1915 model t ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Neil Kaminar on Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 01:34 pm:

Rueben,

You can buy parts from any of the parts suppliers.

http://www.modeltford.com
http://macsautoparts.com/
http://www.snydersantiqueauto.com

are three of them. There is a complete list of suppliers on the home page of this site.

Or you can place a wanted ad in the classified on this site.

Or you can go to swap meets, which a lot of Model T folks like to do. see http://www.modelt.org/index.php?option=com_eventlist&view=eventlist&Itemid=2

Or you can watch the ads on eBay.

Neil


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 01:55 pm:

I haven't had a chance to try the new brake shoes that recently became available, but I've heard they're very good. Most of the vendors will have them. Lang's is probably closest to you, so their shipping may be least costly. http://www.modeltford.com/item/2566AQ.aspx

Steering wheels for 1919-1925 are relatively common, but 1915 is another story. Before spending several hundred dollars for one from a US dealer, I'd scour Britain first. You might get lucky. If that doesn't work, try classified ads in Vintage Ford, Model T Times, the MTFCA and MTFCI website classifieds, and Ebay. As a last resort, you can bite the bullet and buy one from one of the parts dealers. If the car currently has none, you can get by with one of the later Fordite wheels while you shop for one that's right for 1915. Or, if you're not concerned with authenticity, you can just go with a 1919-1925 wheel and save a pile of pounds.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William Rowles on Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 03:50 pm:

If you don't understand how the Model T transmission works, you better get the books from MTFCA and study them hard before you try to operate the car. It is tricky and can be very dangerous. A local Model T owner can be a great assist in not only making the engine run, but also operating the car safely. A minor screw-up by the operator/driver can damage something or hurt somebody. I just went through the "new owner" phase and did all the above, but still learning.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike dixon on Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 09:57 pm:

send your coils to steve thum he is on this site, he did mine, he is the leading authority on this,


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 12:05 am:

Yes, Steven Thum can fix your coils, and so can Ron Patterson and Brent Mize, and others over here. But before you ship your coils across the pond, check with T chaps there in Britain and see if there's someone there who can do it and save the hassle and expense of international shipping.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison on Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 01:11 am:

Buy and read the books. Find someone close to help you(besides you'll make a new friend). Stay on the forum and ask the obligatory 250 questions. And remember none of them are done. We've all asked them too. Good luck and enjoy.


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