Looking to build a jig for boring 4th mains. How about someone posting a picture or two of what they use. Thanks, Dan
You should be able to mount it in a 4 jaw chuck and center with the bold holes. The flange/face and the bolt holes are all you have line it up.
The bolt holes are only right some times by chance, you have to center off the 3/16th wide area in from the gasket surface, that would be the first to touch the pan, and hog's head.
Whether the bolt holes are right or wrong, they are the only thing that Ford gave us to align the fourth main and the only thing that holds the fourth main in place. It is up to the installer to use the play in the bolt holes to properly align the bearing with the crankshaft when installed.
Dan : Maybe this can help you .
TOON... you really should have used a four jaw chuck and also aligned it with the indicator perpendicular as well as to the point its at now.
From what I understand, the block is situated into the straightened pan, then the 4th main is installed, which will align the cap to the crank and therefor align the block to the pan. When thats all done, loosen the fourth cap and install the trans cover, tighten the bottom two bolts, and draw the hog head into position against the cap. Then draw the cover down and its all lined up.
Im sure Herm can clarify this ;-)) troop
If you use any alignment from the bolts what so ever, your ball caps will not be centered the best they can be.
You have to use a face plate to bolt the ball cap to. If you use a chuck, the chuck will distort the ball cap, and also the babbitt hole has to be a right angle to the 4 bolt face of the ball cap, and they won't be.
The ball cap face has to be flat, with all 4 bolts holding it flat, as when it is in use.
Anthonie is showing the correct place to center off of for centering, but the chances of it being a straight right angle to the bore after wards is??????
Anthonie, I will show you the alignment tool I made about 40 years ago, and it takes about 30 seconds to align a ball cap, and then you have to bolt, in all it takes about 3 minutes, with taking a nap in the middle.
Any push or pull from a chuck, will distort a flimsy ball cap easy.
The last thing, any involvement using a ball cap to install a pan is and exercise in futility!
If you have a straight pan, when you tighten the pan rail, the pan will pull into what ever condition the pan is in, and No amount of ball cap use will change a thing.
The same for the hogs head, it will pull to the pan where ever the pan is at.
The only way to change pan position, is to bend the pan! Period!
The ball cap is spun poured, the box's of ball caps, are for the next batch of ball bearing Ball Caps, if and when I get time?
Anthony's and Herm,
I have the same lathe as you do and I chucked up the fourth main in a four jaw chuck and did a pretty good job on it. Mine was made by Atlas and has the name Craftsman on it but it is the same lathe with a 12 inch swing.
Your right Robbie, Craftsman sold South Bend for years, and towards last went to Atlas.
Very nice jig Herm, Good ideas as always. KB
Thanks, Herm. That is what I was looking for. Dan
Nice set up. Thanks for sharing.
Do you have any more pics or videos of it in action?
The cap bolts to the plate in the 1'st picture after the inside mold has been adjusted up or down so that it seals off the bottom of the bearing cap. In the picture the cap shows bevel left by the mold. I used 10mm bolts because they are a snug fit in the holes of the cap. The babbitt is poured in from the top. I cut the mould hollow so it is not such a heat sink. The second fixture in the 4th & 5th picture is centered in the lathe and then cap bolted and centered. Call me at 903 824 1949 with any questions.Pouring cam bearings is fun too.
I would avoid spin casting any babbitt bearings. There is a "sweet spot" of about 60 RPM that you have to hit in order to make the most durable bearing. The RPM has to be calculated based on diameter of the shell, thickness of the cast, temperature of the shell, and temperature of the mandrel (if one is being used). If RPM is too high or too low (by only 30 RPM in either direction, then the part of the babbitt alloy that makes it durable will segregate out of the alloy to the shell or mandrel where it is not doing its job. "Spin-casting" is sometimes a trap that people fall into because it does make perfect-looking casts pretty much all the time regardless of the temperature of the shell, mandrel, or alloy. The end result machines nice, looks good, and there is no initial indication that anything isn't as it should be, but the alloy being softer than it could be may cause some eventual problems for people that put a lot of miles on their T...
Spin casting babbitt bearings is essentially the same as dumping any other liquid into a centrifuge. A centrifuge is used to separate things that are mixed together. It will take two or more well-mixed liquids, and (sometimes instantly) separates them into layers.
Thanks Adam, that's some great insight!
Adem, you are full of B.S., clear to your eyebrows, no other way to say it. We have cast easy over a 1000,000,000 Spun poured bearings. That with, Cam bearings of all kinds Rod bearings, ball caps, chevy rods, on, and on.
That is like saying if a tire gets a nail, you can't ever patch it.
"He's openminded and has some really good ideas. He works hard to keep our hobby alive and never puts his nose in the air if you don't agree with him."
Do you still think so?
Jerry, Adem's post was either ignorance, or a lie. I give him the benefit of the doubt, and say it is ignorance, as not one thing he said was true.
60 RPM's, that would give wrinkles all through the bearings, and wouldn't even keep the babbitt in the bearing to be poured. We have all Factory Babbitt Equipment, and the bearing spinner runs at a little over 1700 rpm's. At slow speeds the babbitt stays Molten to long, and all the ingredients separate. At 1700 it takes about 15 seconds to harden, and about 3 minutes to cool.
Also it is better to spin pour Model T cam bearings, and ball caps, as the centrifugal force won't let the babbitt shrink away from the shell when cooling, like a static poured bearing does. Thin wall cam bearings, like shown, is best, as the shell is expanded out when hot, and the babbitt poured, and hardened, will keep it expanded out, so when install the bearing in the block again, it has it's crush back, so it stays put.
If it were to be static poured, as the shell cools first, and stops shrinking, the inside babbitt keeps cooling, and pulls away from the shell, and you can even heat it clink, as the shell separates, from the babbitt center.
Jerry, you arn't looking for truth, it wouldn't be keeping with your agenda.
I got carried away with Zero's, should be 100 thousand.
You actually had something worthwhile to say but, of course, it wouldn't be complete unless it were also seasoned with an insult. It's a shame that you don't believe that your advice can stand on its own merits without also having to cut someone down. Is it so impossible to just help someone without also having to be a d*#k?
Do, You mean, a Richard?
Looking at Herm's 1st picture on December 18th it would seem that it contradicts his statement in his second posting. He states "We have all Factory Babbitt Equipment, and the bearing spinner runs at a little over 1700 rpm's." And yet if you look at the belt ratio shown the "spinner" is obviously running at something considerably less than the motor speed. Assuming that the motor is a typical 1725 rpm one the spinner is going to be running in the 1000-1200 rpm range.
Is he deliberately trying to mislead? Or?
As usual Herm is all about telling the rest of us how much he knows and nothing about passing on that knowledge the the next generation of model T people.
Ok, Les, when I used 1700, I was thinking the motors speed, not the driven shaft. I did check it when we got it 40 years ago, I guess I remembered that speed instead.
The motor speed is 1710, and motor Pulley is 6 inches in Diameter, and the driven shaft Pulley is 10 inches in Diameter, which makes the speed of the driven shaft, 1026.
Regardless, that is a far cry from 60 RPM's, with a 30 RPM either way variance.
60 RPM is what my coil tester runs, no way it could spin babbitt, with out layering, and you would never keep it from running out the hole that you pour into!
And Les, that 60 RPM is misleading, so why don't you ask Adam same Question?
Is he deliberately trying to mislead? "END QUOTE"
So, Les, how many of the Guys on the forum will have Spinners next year, and just can't figure out what RPM to run them.
So can you describe for me the actual operation of your "spin pour" equipment;
1. Is it spinning as you pour the metal?
2. Your pictures imply that the bearing is spun about a horizontal axis?
Some pictures showing the actual operation (taken while a bearing is being poured and showing the various stages would be most helpful) .
With this information more of us might consider building bearing spinners next year.
Third picture from the top shows a Packard cam bearing locked in by air pressure, ready to pour.
The pour is made with a babbitt ladle, with a small pipe, or a folded metal snout, that will fit in the hole that is showen in the center.
It wouldn't do much good to take a picture of it running, as it would be a blur.
When running, it also sprays 800, to 1000 degree babbitt, so I don't know how you would even get pictures of that.
So if we go to the first picture;
1. Is that a air cylinder that appears to be centered on the near end of the spindle? It would appear as if it is air powered in both directions (the cylinder that is? What does this cylinder do? Clamping the fixture I assume? I assume the main spindle is hollow with some type of thrust bearing attached to the air cylinder?
2. There appears to be another hose going to near the top of the machine which appears to be connected to a pair of copper tubes? What does this do?
If we go to picture 2 and 3;
1.The slotted arm I assume is to attach the small end of connecting rods to?
2. I assume you pour connecting rods in pairs to avoid having to counterbalance the machine at the rotating speeds you are using?
3. I assume to logic in pouring with the bearing in a horizontal axis is any excess babbitt is simply hurled out?
Some pictures of the pouring pipes and folded metal spouts would be beneficial to the rest of us
The rest of it appears to be self explanatory.
I will add that your babbitt temperature seems to be higher than any of the alloy manufacturers recommended temperature, but I will assume it works for the alloy you use.
2. Air Valve, in, and out.
No, just one rod at a time, as for the balance, there are different weights to put on the short side that you can hardly see, opposite side of the wrist pin button slot.
3. Most of the babbitt comes from leaks, and if the bearing gets over full, it comes out the hole that the babbitt went in.
It would be the same as a Jig pour. I have never had a good pour from any thing under 800. The reason of 950, to 1000 degree pot Temp. As soon as you take a ladle of Babbitt out of the pot, the Temp. drops like a rock. 950 degrees, and any thing over 3, or 4 foot walk, you are below 750. The shell should should be 610, to 640, at the time of pouring, on a jig with enough mass to hold the heat of the babbitt as it cools from the out side in.
The shell has to cool first but not separately from the total amount of babbitt. I am probably not saying that right, but it has to start on the out side, and work to the Mandrill. That would be the tinning got hard before the babbitt next to the tinning could grab a hold of it.
No. 1 showing shell had cooled first, and had other issues.
Picture 2. Showing a quick way to tell if the rod will fail!!
Picture 3. Showing carbon not removed, and an attempt to tin the bearings. This is the biggest reason that babbitt fails, bad work!!!
4, and 5 Pictures, showing the bearing cap poured, with out the cold solder Joint.
Thank you for divulging your "secrets". A bit like pulling teeth.
I do need to sit down and calculate the centrifugal force needed to keep the molten babbitt in place. Just to satisfy my own curiosity.
If you don't understand Herm's "criptic" answers please contact me and I will explain the operation off list.