I am looking for the cross section dimensions of the spokes for a 1909 front and rear wheel. Were the spokes the same other than in length? I know that the hubs were 5 1/2" in diameter. I sure would like to see some close up pictures of any original wheels. I also need to know how the fellows are attached to the rims, rivet (what kind of head) or were they held with screws along with the fellow joining plate rivets? In 1909 were the plates just plain with no letters? Thanks in advance for your help. Steve
I am not going to be able to give you the detailed answers to the questions you asked but I will share what I know. Prior to 1912/1913 era the wood felloes attached to the rim via wood screws from the inside of the rim into the felloes at several places around the rim. The spokes were very spindly and smaller than the later wheels. It is sort of generally accepted that the spokes got larger after the earliest brass T's. 5-1/2" hubs ended in late 1910 - early 1911. The joining plates if lettered generally were P for Pruddin wheels. H for Hayes but some were not lettered at all and I don't know if those were aftermarket or not. One thing that you will not notice in the pictures unless the angle is just right is that the earliest wood wheels were "dished". That means that unlike later wheels, the hub area is inset toward the inside of the rim with the spokes then slightly slanted toward the outer rim direction. This was a carry over from the wagon days when all wheels were dished for added strength.
8-31-1910 + it's revisions.
The portion of the wheel drawing above is from the T-291-B microfilm at the Benson Ford Research Center. It is for a 6 inch rim wheel, and the latest revision date is 3-14-14. A search of the Records of Changes for this drawing will reveal what change was made at each of the revision dates given in the upper right corner.
Since this is drawing T-291-B, I suspect the drawing Steve needs is T-291 or T-291-A. The A would have been added after the B version was created. I never found a wheel drawing for the earlier wheel at Benson Ford. A possible avenue to explore is to write Kelsey-Hayes at:
12001 Tech Center Drive
Livonia, MI 48150-2122
Telephone: (734) 855-2600
They just might have some information from their past. They are proud that they started in business in 1908 supplying wheels for the Model T Ford.
The later wheel in the drawing Kerry posted is easy to spot because the spoke cross section is oval, referred to in the drawing as a "true ellipse".
The spoke cross section through at least 1913 was a tear drop cross section, making that drawing likely to be 1914 or later.
More information on Ford Wheels is available on line.
Luckily we don't have to worry about the dishing when rebuilding on the C exports with 3 1/2" all round, do the wheel builders dish a rebuild for the US fronts today?
Thanks you guys, this is some great information. I found a wheel or half of one that has the tear drop cross section in some of my old stuff, I didn't think it was Ford until now. I also got a pair of wheels with the project that may be for an earlier Ford that have an even smaller tear drop cross section, these may have been the rear wheels as the center hole is too big for the front hubs and I have not tried the rear hubs in them. Thanks for helping me, I will post some pictures of the spokes and wheels as soon as I get some pictures.
Check the spoke length on your earlier wheels. The Model N and R had 28 inch wheels and the S had 30 inch wheels.
Remember, many other marques used rims, fellies, and spokes that are interchangeable and sometimes identical to the Ford parts. Ford hub centers are smaller than most and Ford wheels can often be easily fit onto the other car's hub. Other car wheels can sometimes be easily adapted to Ford hubs. Both 30X3 and 30X3.5 clinchers were sizes common to a lot of other cars.
Also, the hub flange may have increased in size by half an inch about late 1910, but I believe the hub center's OD remained the same from the beginning of Ts till the end of T wood wheel production. Front and rear hub centers also were the same size. I don't know what size the NRS hubs were.
Drive carefully, and enjoy the holidays! W2
Hi Steve, My name is Dave Dryden from OZ, I have an original 09 Tourer engine number 685.This car is all original and I will give you the sizes of the timber fellies,the width of the fellies is 1.213thousands of an inch, the height of the felli is 1.034thousand of an inch/
The width of the spoke just underneath the fellies is .742,Than the depth at the same position .982.I have also enclosed some pictures and the metal plates that hold the fellies on what are called staples are plain and inside the rim there are 4 timber screws that go from the inside of the rims to the timber fellie,equally divided around the circumfrance of the rim.
The screws are 3/4 inch long by 10 gauge counter sunk steel.
If there is any more help you need please email.