OT Please hug your children today.

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: OT Please hug your children today.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison on Friday, December 14, 2012 - 03:48 pm:

Please take your children and grandchildren into your arms today and hold them tight. God please have mercy on the families of those lost today. This is the season to celebrate the birth of our lord, and shouldn't be to mourn the loss of our kids. God bless.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Baker on Friday, December 14, 2012 - 04:06 pm:

That story today made me sick. I gave my 2 year old a lot of hugs today. WTF is wrong with some people?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Derek Kiefer - Mantorville, MN on Friday, December 14, 2012 - 04:10 pm:

Hugging my kids when I get home is all I've been able to think about at work today.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Wolf on Friday, December 14, 2012 - 04:16 pm:

Mike;
Did I miss something???


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Seth - Ohio on Friday, December 14, 2012 - 04:20 pm:

Richard,

There was a school shooting in Conn today. Among the 27 dead there were 20 children.

A very sad day in America today.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Wolf on Friday, December 14, 2012 - 04:25 pm:

Oh my. Haven't had the news on. Thanks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim on Friday, December 14, 2012 - 04:28 pm:

Words cannot describe .... :-(

20 children - many of which were kindergarteners in the class of the mother of the shooter (who also died).

My God, how terrible is this ...

Hug your children if they are with you,
call them if they are not.

My youngest is seven years old and in second grade.

Tomorrow we are planning to visit the MTFCA Museum and the Children's Museum in Indianapolis.

I will think about this and cry for awhile
as I am doing now.



Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison on Friday, December 14, 2012 - 07:11 pm:

Jim, this is the first time I can remember having tears in my eyes because of such a tragedy. I've got a 7 year old and 12 year old granddaughters that live about 150 miles North of me. They're all I've thought about today. God bless them and all the daughters and granddaughters, Parents and Grandparents on the MTFCA forum. And please call your family tonight if you can't be with them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A. Gustaf Bryngelson on Friday, December 14, 2012 - 07:14 pm:

Two more chapters of the "Hunger Games" plays out in Oregon and Connecticut, as long as the media and law enforcement gives the shooters what they want, they will continue to kill people for the fame. As long as the American public thinks the entertainment value of the shootings is greater than the loss, it will continue. The greatest sympathy to the victims and their families, for them, the loss is greater than the reality TV entertainment that murder has become in this world. It is time to boycott advertiser who buy advertising for the news programs that publicize the names of the shooters.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Neil Kaminar on Friday, December 14, 2012 - 07:41 pm:

Here is the president talking about the tragety and other news about the shooting. No political statement intended by me so please do not inject politics into this.

http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_c3#/video/us/2012/12/14/obama-weeps-over-massac re.cnn

Neil


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison on Friday, December 14, 2012 - 08:21 pm:

Neil, there's no room for political stupidity when dealing with the death of children and teachers. We have to go along with our lives but many of us will focus on those children, those parents and that town tonight. As I've said in the past, I'm not a religious man, but if there's a place called heaven for those children's souls than God take those innocent babies and bless and protect them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matthew David Maiers on Friday, December 14, 2012 - 09:09 pm:

I heard about it today at work, but it really just set in tonight. im so sadened and really dont know how to feel.

America is in sorry shape these days, hopefully we can get back to the basics. Im going to be praying for the families of those who were lost today, i cant even imagine what it must be like.

cherish your families, and be safe out there, this world is becoming quite the dangerous place.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, December 14, 2012 - 09:57 pm:

When I heard the news this morning I thought of this:

"The Bath School disaster is the name given to three bombings in Bath Township, Michigan, on May 18, 1927, which killed 38 elementary school children, two teachers, four other adults and the bomber himself; at least 58 people were injured. Most of the victims were children in the second to sixth grades (7Ė11 years of age) attending the Bath Consolidated School. Their deaths constitute the deadliest mass murder in a school in U.S. history and the third-deadliest non-military massacre in U.S. history, behind 9/11 and the Oklahoma City bombing.

The bomber was school board treasurer Andrew Kehoe, 55 who died in a car bomb he set off after he drove up to the school as the crowd gathered to rescue survivors from the burning school.

On the morning of May 18, Kehoe murdered his wife by beating her to death, then set his farm buildings afire. As fire fighters arrived at the farm, an explosion devastated the north wing of the school building, killing many schoolchildren. He used a detonator to ignite dynamite and hundreds of pounds of pyrotol which he had secretly planted inside the school over the course of many months. As rescuers started gathering at the school, Kehoe drove up, stopped, and detonated a bomb inside his fragmentation-filled vehicle with his Winchester rifle, killing himself and the school superintendent, and killing and injuring several others. During rescue efforts searchers discovered an additional 500 pounds (230 kg) of unexploded dynamite and pyrotol planted throughout the basement of the school's south wing. Kehoe apparently had intended to blow up and destroy the whole school."

These mass murders are heartbreaking, but not new.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Danial - Veneta OR US Earth Solar System on Friday, December 14, 2012 - 10:01 pm:

No politics from me. Regardless of whatever side of the aisle you are on, today, as a country, as a race, we lost another little piece of our humanity.

I weep for our collective sanity.

Or lack thereof.

I'm going to make a stiff drink and catch you all later.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Friday, December 14, 2012 - 10:08 pm:

Nothing I know of to say except it is so sad that such young kids will have to live with such horror in their minds for the rest of their lives.
There will be contraversy abound in the near future as to prevention,BUT None of it will bring back those kids.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Lodge - St Louis MO on Friday, December 14, 2012 - 10:09 pm:

Steve, thanks. I borrowed that for a Facebook post.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Derek Kiefer - Mantorville, MN on Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 12:16 am:

Thanks for posting that Steve. That reminds me of this quote:

"In times like these, it is helpful to remember that there have always been times like these." -Paul Harvey


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Stinchcomb, Trumbull, CT on Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 06:19 am:

Innocence lost.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 09:28 am:

Tell me again why, at least, when metal detectors for schools are brought up or when in use all kinds of hell is raised about them. Prevent this? Maybe it wouldn't have. Possibly keeping down the number of deaths by early warning? I've got to say a big possible. Dari Alexander on channel 5 news said maybe this will be the wake-up call. Sadly I doubt it. I also doubt the fact that even if every single warning sign is there parents & friends will not out their relatives or friends. Even now interviewees are saying: Him? he was a great guy it's totally un expected.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Will Copeland - Evans Mills NY on Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 10:56 am:

That's the thing Charlie, (Unexpected) Who in there right mind would ever expect someone to walk into a school and just mow down kids with no emotion. But sadly it is becoming more common. There has been more of this in the last 5 years than I have ever heard of in my whole 55 years of life. What is wrong with people today, I just don't understand.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison on Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 11:11 am:

Our children have been de=sensitized over the last 35 years. When parents disciplined their children, and they didn't let them sit and shoot people on the computer things were a little more understandable. But they watch people die every day. it makes for good games and television. Even some of our vocabulary has created problems. Reality tv brought in reality attitudes and language. I don't like being censored but I don't really like being bombarded with vulgarity. But, this is the 21st century.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dale L Myers on Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 11:17 am:

This was in an Email I was sent A while ago.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Dufault on Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 11:29 am:

That,
Dale,
Is the problem with humanity.
We (collectively) have chosen to ignore Him.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Haynes on Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 12:02 pm:

That's nonsense.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Deichmann, Blistrup, Denmark on Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 03:03 pm:

Normally I don't comment on US politics,but this one circulated on Facebook:

Of course there are 3 times as many people in US than in Germany and they have much more room than the Germans.....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed Baudoux on Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 03:18 pm:

Micheal. If making guns illegal will take them off the streets, we should make crack and meth illegal too.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike peterson on Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 03:38 pm:

my firearms have never killed a soul.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 03:45 pm:

My Mama said guns are for killing. They have no other purpose.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ex trooper on Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 03:56 pm:

Its rather odd that in ALL (or most) of the other countries than the U.S., private ownership of handguns is ILLEGAL. That makes owning them a criminal offense and the owners a criminal. RE: Mike P... mine are innocent as well.
26 deaths by a handgun armed perpetraitor would mean 3 fully loaded 16 shot auto's and a pretty accurate shooter. The FBI hasnt yet acknowledged the armament but pistols seem rather inadequate.
Instead of this thread getting into an anti handgun debate, and you know who you are, pray for the kids, the teachers and the families in Newtown. This is going to provide a lifetime of scars that will never heal, and fester for eternity.
Name witheld.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison on Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 04:09 pm:

I feel some ownership for this thread. I didn't start it to make a case for gun ownership and feel if you think it's necessary to start an Off Topic thread dealing with gun ownership or control go right ahead. But for now stop using this thread for that purpose. The purpose for this thread was to recognize our children and grandchildren and how much they mean to Moms, Dads, Grandfathers and Grandmothers and brothers and sisters. Not to put an offensive advertisement like was in this thread.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 04:26 pm:

Well, since there's over 32,000 killed in auto accidents every year, we'll have to outlaw cars too. Statistically, they are far more hazardous than a gun. Or maybe we should outlaw alcohol again. That kills 17,000 a year so alcohol is more hazardous than a gun. Or perhaps we should get rid of all the doctors. They kill 25,000 a year.

Numbers don't mean a thing unless you use the right comparison. It's estimated that there's over 300,000,000 guns in the US. Just using round numbers, that means less than .0033% were the cause of a fatality.

Compare that to the statistic that 10% of the drivers on the road at any given time are drunk. Or that 10% of the drivers on the road don't evan have a license.

Outlaw guns and only outlaws will have guns.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 04:32 pm:

Sorry Mike. I was composing before I saw your post. It's just that the anti-constitutional nut cases come out of the woodwork every time something like this happens.

I'm out of here.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob McDonald-Federal Way, Wa. on Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 05:29 pm:

I took a course in graphs and charts,and at the end I ask this question ( you just showed us how to cheat and lie with numbers) his answer was YES but you can't take me to court with it. Numbers don't lie but liars use numbers.
GOD bless all the children,there parents and extended families all over the world.

Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Enos Wiseman on Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 05:35 pm:

What a sad,sad day. I don't know if Mental Illness was the case here,we'll just have to wait and see. The jail's are full of people with Mental Illness. We should start recognizing and treating it sooner rather than later. That is a huge,problem here in our country, for sure.
If you have a broken bone you get it fixed. If you have a broken brain,your sent home with pills. Doesn't make a lot of sense.
That's my 2 cents worth.
Hug your family today and every day.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison on Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 07:11 pm:

Enos, you are so right on the money, but please understand mental illness is also a physical illness. It becomes physical when the brain reacts to a chemical imbalance that is brought on by certain stimulation such as distress. Many people have a hard time understanding Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. And that is almost understandable. But when the mind is dealing with overwhelming fear and stress and anxiety the brain physically reacts to an overabundance of a chemical that affects the brain called seratonin. And the only way to deal with the over-abundance of seratonin is with medicine and therapy. And for anyone who thinks chemicals can't affect the brain should probably be subjected to a drunk. Because that's the best example of a brain affected by a chemical that I can think of. So treating people with pills isn't always bad. But some of the treatment should also involve therapy, diet, exercise and in some cases even sunlight. And different minds react differently to the chemicals that affect the brain just like different people react differently to alcohol. Some can become sedentary. Some become violent. Some become sarcastic. It's all different for different people. Thats why, in so many cases, mental health practitioners dont always know how to deal with different cases. Believe me 20 years of lost jobs, broken marriages and lost friendships has made me grateful for whatever help I can get for PTSD. But for some of us it's not enough. But you can bet the VA is doing what they can to help. But please understand mental illness can be brought on through physical illness or other sources of physical stimulation.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chuck Hoffman - Gold Country of Calif. on Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 08:19 pm:

There used to be places for people who were certifiably mentally ill. Now they are out among us and you don't know who the nut is until he goes berserk.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison on Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 11:12 pm:

You're right Chuck, anyone that's ever been documented as mentally ill should be locked up in asylums. With the right government backing we wouldn't have to put the burden on the families to deal with the mentally ill through nurturing and compassion. Instead we can put them in homes dedicated specifically to the insane (mentally ill) and pass the responsibility on to the government like they did back 50 years ago. Kind of an out of sight out of mind deal and we don't even have to feed them very good because they don't contribute to society. We can put them in old military clothing and let them sleep on cots. And just in case through some trick they get out of the asylums we'll be certain to have a brand or tattoo on their forehead so we can identify them when we see them and quickly turn them into the crazy police and get them back into the institutions where they belong. That's what we ought to do to deal with the mentally ill. Because they're all dangerous BOO.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Danial - Veneta OR US Earth Solar System on Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 11:23 pm:

I'm always fascinated (in a bad way) by how our elected officials choose to use local tax dollars.

Here in Oregon, (and elsewhere, I'm sure) we regularly let people out of the state hospitals for lack of funding. Yet this same state (and I'm not making this up) just spent 1.5 million dollars in the city of Florence, in Oregon highway funds to put in a multi-lingual interpretive sign and a series of short trails along the slough, near the town telling people from around the world what lives in the mud flats at low tide.

This is just one of many ludicrous examples of how we spend state tax dollars here. I could write a book of examples given enough time.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Walker on Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 12:06 am:

My father was murdered in 2011 by a man who, to the best of my knowledge, had previously been arrested for illegal possession of a gun. But he didn't use a gun to murder; no, he killed my father using a truck, with about the same avarice and disregard for Dad's civil rights as that sick fool who killed those precious people in Connecticutt.

I stopped watching the news in 2001. The move was and is good for my soul. No more crisis constructors and sychofants vying for my time and attention. No more politicians telling me they're going to protect me from myself, only to take away my liberty, freedom, rights to property.

Ronald Reagan was absolutely correct when he said, "The nine most dangerous words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government, and I'm here to help.'"

Have faith in a higher authority (not government, not media, not some punk vying for attention), and dismiss those who try to replace your faith with fear. Believe in yourself and your ability to overcome all obstacles, even in the face of imminent failure.

And pray for peace; pray for those families and all of us who are hurting from violent crimes. And tell your family you love them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep NZ on Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 12:06 am:

Ricks they have dozens of purposes. Making noise, Making holes in pieces of wood or metal, Scaring birds away, Fishing, Deflating balloons, Launching things in the air, Destroying old T.V. sets, Nifty cigar holders, Making fire if you get lost among trees with tinder-like stuff on the ground and the sun sets, Unclogging longdrops.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Mullis on Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 12:39 am:

No disrespect intended. Terrible terrible tragedy.

If "guns" kill people I think it's logical to conclude that forks make people fat. Simply outlaw forks and obesity will vanish.

Hey maybe if we outlaw driving while intoxicated nobody else will be killed by a drunk driver....or better yet, outlaw cars....or better still, outlaw booze.....yeah, that's the solution. Let's demand that the government prohibit alcohol. I'm sure that will work.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison on Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 12:58 am:

I'm with David. If I don't hear it, it doesn't exist. That is until I'm awakened in the night by some drunk ass idiot driving off the county road that runs beside my house and runs into the woods. That seems to bring the realities of the world right to my door. I swear the worst thing for mankind isn't the reality of what's happening, it's the crap that comes off the television. They're making heroes out of people who make illegal whiskey and another group that are getting ready for the apocolypse. What in the hell is wrong with this picture. I don't believe we should hide our head in the ground but I do believe the media is doing everything they can to create panic amongst us. I can't imagine some of the hopelessness children feel when adults watch the "Preppers" hide food and bunkers and practice with guns and store gas and go to all other ridiculous ends because they actually believe in the damndest things. They believe huge sun flares are going to reach out from the sun and cook us. They believe the sun, moon and earth and who knows what else are going to line up and create so much gravity that the tectonic plates are gonna shift and the earth quakes are going to kill us all. Some believe in an opposite effect and we're all going to float away into space. And I guess I don't understand everything those stupid people believe in but sometimes I'm pretty happy I've only got a certain number of years left, maybe as many as 30, though I doubt I'll have that many and then I'll be dead. I feel sorry for my kids having to live in a world of idiots but there's not much I can do about it. However I also know that for all the idiots in this world there are also schools full of kids working their asses off to get an education and become world leaders. The colleges are full of them, the military is full of them and the young people working in our businesses are full of them and they really outnumber all the idiots. And I've got faith in people. I watched a kid who's only joy was smoking dope and playing his metal guitar spend 10 years working for a place that really had to work hard to give the guy enough breaks to keep him. And when the place shut down, the kid couldn't afford the dope and he had to quit the metal band and he started school and all the time he was in school he held a 4.0 GPA. And this week he graduates with scholarships and has been accepted into a university to continue his education and become a teacher. All isn't lost. Our future is coming up in front of us and to me it looks pretty damn good. There's no reason for us to go backwards and start having witch hunts for the crazies. Because we are the crazies. The one greatest disappointment to mankind happened when schools stopped teaching history. Who in the hell came up with that little bit of genius. I guess someone said those who don't learn about history are destined to repeat it. And as long as we keep letting the uneducated have the influence they do by allowing them to vote we'll be stuck in this nightmare. Want a strange opinion, think of this. No ID, no vote, no high school education no vote. I'd like to also go as far as saying if you can't pass a piss test you don't get to vote. But then I figure they ought to do that for welfare too. This morning I watched a tattooed beauty about in her mid 30's get all kinds of mad because she didn't have any credit left on her government issued credit card to buy potato chips and pop. There were at least 5 kids in that van and there weren't any men around. And she had to use her other credit card to pay for her stuff. Which by the way she already had out because she had to pay for the 4 or 5 packs of cigarettes she had sitting on the counter at close to $6.00 per pack. Yeah theres some scary stuff happening in this world but I'm not giving up yet.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Nicholson on Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 01:27 am:

I have tried all day to grasp this terrible tragedy. I have a five year old son who is in School and let me tell you, when I walk him to his class on Monday, I am going to have a tough time leaving him. Monday is his Christmas Program so I will be back early to watch it, then he is coming home with me.

I can't imagine what those people are going through. I have hugged my son more than ever today and when I put him in bed tonight, he said "I sure love you Daddy". The tears have been rolling down my cheeks since.

whether your very religious or not, Prayers for all of the children and parents sure can't hurt!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Walker on Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 12:40 pm:

Mike Garrison, just because we don't watch the TV news doesn't mean we ignore what's happening. Be alert and wary of those who foment crisis; shine a light in their closets and know their corners inside and out. I am very aware of the "news", and it's clear the media are nothing but a tool for those who seek advantage. My job, as a citizen, is to stamp out hysteria and replace fear with resolve to overcome as a free people.

God bless all those who are hurting.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 02:20 pm:

Well publicized tragedies such as this are great for gun sales.

There are more regulations for selling teddy bears and toy guns than for handguns.

No, it's not the guns that kill, but the crazies who obsess on them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Danial - Veneta OR US Earth Solar System on Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 02:48 pm:

Speaking of nonsense...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Mitchell on Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 03:01 pm:

God Bless all the families involved and especaily at this time of year. RIP to those who have been lost.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Chantrell - Adelaide, Australia on Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 04:59 pm:

Our thoughts and prayers go out to all of the families involved. It is awful...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison on Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 05:30 pm:

David and Ralph, I just erased the post I had written to you two. There's been enough distress brought on by all this. You guys understand where I am on this. And I understand your position. I don't see any intelligent reason to persue this any farther. And Danial, you have a keen sense for identifying the obvious. Next time I travel to see my numerous relatives in Oregon I'm going to look you up. Maybe we'll have a beer together.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Danial - Veneta OR US Earth Solar System on Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 05:35 pm:

Hey that'd be great, Mike. It's looking like I'll be in Chicago in March, but that's two states away from you..grin..


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 05:53 pm:

I am still wondering what would possess a fellow to do that.11 shots into 1 child.That took thought and desire to do evil no doubt.
Gun control aint the answer.Those of us that obey the law that might own guns are not the problem.We respect the law and hold life dear.
It is those people that dont value life that can kill to get a gun or steal 1 or whatever that are the problem.And the laws will do nothing but allow for more charges to be filed.
The only thing I can say in regards to the shooter,at least the taxpayers wont spend millions trying to defend the joker or spend more millions feeding and houseing him.His new home has plenty of heat and noise from screams of agony to keep him feeling right at home.


Well,as said,this kind of violence and the threat of it is getting to common place.
Just this morning I get a email from the fire department board president telling that our department and members were threatened saterday by a student in a rookie class.Dont know who it was or what department he was in.

People that use medicines to deal with mental illness should be monitored more closely than they are.Not takeing them,can have side effects far worse than the problem being treated.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 06:16 pm:

Itís quiet now
the room is empty

No good night kiss or good night song
For the little ones are gone.


And for those of us who remain
We need to process our own anger or pain about this day.

We may never understand why,
But I encourage you to take a moment for those families and pray.


Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep NZ on Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 08:15 pm:

So i can't vote because i spell too poorly?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison on Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 10:26 pm:

"People that use medicines to deal with mental illness should be monitored more closely than they are.Not takeing them,can have side effects far worse than the problem being treated."

And I think people that make statements like this should understand what they're talking about. It's this kind of ignorance that creates so many problems for the guys coming home from war. It's interesting I take medicine for mental illness and I doubt I'll ever hurt anyone or anything. The veterans that come home with PTSD aren't going to present a problem for anyone. That's not to say there aren't people just like the kid that killed all those children but it won't be because of their PTSD. It'll be because they were predisposed to violence in the first place. And honestly the veterans that seek help from the VA are monitored simply because of the visits they make to the mental health units at the VA. So rather than look at a vet with PTSD as a threat why not thank him and welcome him home instead.


Sorry Kep, it was a lousy attempt at sarcasm. And I do mean lousy. After reading it myself I'd like to meet the guy who wrote it and give him a class on forum etiquette and decorum. Oops I guess I am that guy.

Hap, Thank you. I thought my actions over the last day would have gotten the confusion and anger out of my head. I feel so close to this loss simply because of my granddaughters. Today I had a thought of my granddaughters being involved with such a horrible thing. I sat and closed my eyes and all I could see in my mind was my beautiful little Rhianon lying on the floor with blood on her face. And her sister in the corner of the room crying. And of course I had fallen asleep and it was a dream but it was real enough to make me hurt again. And you're right we need to process the anger and the pain. Tonight I called my son and told him about my experience. He told me to talk to the girls. Not about my dream but to simply listen to them and hear their voices. He was sure it would ease my mind and my fears for them would subside. And of course it helped and I feel some peace. The anger isn't as bad. The fact my girls were so far away and i couldn't be with them was hard to accept. Thank you.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Lodge - St Louis MO on Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 11:01 pm:

As far as gun control laws....


[abhs]gun ownership.jpg


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison on Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 11:20 pm:

Well at least she's got one redeeming quality. Although she probably doesn't support the US economy and gets it from Mexico.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Danial - Veneta OR US Earth Solar System on Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 11:38 pm:

If I were king and I thought everyone smoking pot would keep children safe from madmen and abusers I would make it law.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison on Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 11:47 pm:

I'm with you. Although maybe they should make it law anyway. And force a lot of these uptight, anal retentive, tablet toting, bible thumping, holier than thou, righteous, religious Zealots to take a toke. It wouldn't change anything in the long run but maybe they'd feel a little more mellow for a few minutes of their lives. Oops. Shame on me. Now I'm gonna have to pull out the beads and recite the hail Mary's again.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Dufault on Monday, December 17, 2012 - 07:50 am:

WE REAP WHAT WE SOW.....

Yes, I am praying for the victims of the recent tragedy, as well as the survivors - and yes (again), for the soul of the perpetrator.

However, I do believe that the "take home message" of Newtown is that we, as a society, have enabled that action by our purchase of abusive, violent, and socially corrupt video games, literature, movie tickets, and other forms of "entertainment".

Until we, as a group, learn to respect life (with ALL the ramifications of that), and cultivate a better moral environment for our citizens, these tragedies will continue.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Monday, December 17, 2012 - 08:59 am:

According to ex-FBI leader, John Miller, there were a record 283,000 guns bought just over the last Black Friday weekend. That does not count gun shows, for most of which there are no records. There are more gun outlets than McDonalds.

Sure, there are more people killed by cars, but those deaths are accidental.

As long as men relate guns to their masculinity, this will continue.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Will Copeland - Evans Mills NY on Monday, December 17, 2012 - 09:12 am:

Iv had guns ever since I was old enough to pick one up and not one other than the ones I carried in the Army have ever hurt another person.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike peterson on Monday, December 17, 2012 - 09:14 am:

compare apples to apples, if your gonna say "gun outlets" then use restaurants, if your gonna use Mcdonalds, use a certain gun maker, be honest in your comparsions. which u arnt doing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim on Monday, December 17, 2012 - 09:39 am:

Reign in your anger - extend your compassion

Any violence is unacceptable - it leads to further violence - never ending

Today - as I did last Wednesday - I am having lunch with my 7 year old daughter at school

If you have never had lunch with your child at school, please consider attending this week if possible


Personally, I find the recent string of attacks against children unacceptable and it has to stop

That is where a dialogue should begin - at a place we can all agree on

It is time to protect our children at the place where society expects them to be most days - at school

The environment has become one of real and genuine uncertainty for the safety of our children at school

We cannot sit beside them at school

I suggest a police car and police officer be present at K thru 8 grade schools during school hours

I realize the financial hardship of this on local - state - federal budgets and funds

But I also realize that gun control laws are just about impossible to change - the money and politics too powerful to overcome

And we do not have the time

So, in our Society of Abundant Freedoms, we have to accept that a miniscule minority of our fellow man will abuse those freedoms
and wreak havoc and destruction and carnage

We have to protect our children - right now

That is our greatest responsibility to them

They are our greatest contribution to this World

They are our finest achievement

They are our future to be protected in our present



Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Lodge - St Louis MO on Monday, December 17, 2012 - 09:52 am:

"I suggest a police car and police officer be present at K thru 8 grade schools during school hours"

The only modification I would make to that would be that it's not necessary to detail a full-time police officer for that duty. A well-trained and armed security officer could serve the same purpose without burdening the police force.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Monday, December 17, 2012 - 10:34 am:

There is nothing as tragic as outliving your children. It's bad enough to lose a child from illness, serving in the military, or even in a car accident but this? Babies?
The 'talking heads' have been babbling all weekend on TV about the 'why' and how many less guns we need and how many more metal detectors we need and how many more armed guards we need.
Personally, I don't give a tinkers damn 'why' this piece of pure evil did this. There's no place dark enough or deep enough in Hell for this man to rot for eternity in. I'm equally glad he took his own life. The idea that he would end up with some slick lawyer and psychologist arguing that he "wasn't in his right mind" (well duh!), and that he could be rehabilitated and possibly set loose in society again, disgusts me. As far as I'm concerned, there are actions that qualify a person to relinquish his his right to be called human and this just about tops the list.
We have been 'programmed' to be a nation of cowards. We have been 'programmed' to cower in fear from evil and wait for somebody 'qualified' to come 'defend' us.
That's what needs to change. With all due respect Mike, there is no way to start a topic about how 'sorry' we all are this happened and wishing these poor people our best, without it turning into more, I'll leave it at that. One post, last post.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Monday, December 17, 2012 - 10:36 am:

Mike,the reason for my statement is not because of vets.They have legit reasons for their conditions that are being treated.God help all of them
I will pm you and give you a explanation of my statement sir as it is a little more personal than I feel warrentes being typed here.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Monday, December 17, 2012 - 10:40 am:

Adherence to the sign on the right will result in many deadly accidents.

No, Mike, I was quoting it as it was reported by ex-FBI John Miller: There are more gun outlets than McDonalds. There are on the order of 10,000 McDonalds in the US. The intent of McDonalds food is not to kill.

We have over 300 million guns in private hands in the US, and more people in prison than any other country in the world. Please explain.

The main source of guns to the Mexican drug wars is US gun shows, where there are no records kept in many states. Half the value of all illegal drug imports is pot from Mexico. The Prez has declared the feds will not go after locally legalized pot in Colo and Wash, signaling the beginning of the end of our unwinnable War on Drugs started by Pres. Nixon.

Taxing pot rather than having it continue to be illegal will reduce the illegal imports from Mexico, and avoid sending even more young men to prison.

Disclaimer: I do not use any drugs, not even booze.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Monday, December 17, 2012 - 10:53 am:

No sign will prevent what happened.
Terriable things like this have happened for years.
There is just no real way to instill the value of life in some people.
Until people value life,there is no total prevention.Just as a lock does not prevent theft,a law or sign will not prevent wrong doing by someone hell bent on doing it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Lodge - St Louis MO on Monday, December 17, 2012 - 10:53 am:

Ralph. Mike's point is valid no matter who made the statement originally. To be correct, you either have to compare gun outlets to restaurants (generic to generic) or McDonalds to a particular chain of gun store (specific to specific). John Miller's statement is the equivalent of "There are more drugstores in the United States than there are Kroger Supermarkets."


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike peterson on Monday, December 17, 2012 - 11:06 am:

the intent of guns in the hands of americans is for protection and sport, not for some crazy ppl, u will have the crazies after ppl if not with guns than bombs, oh wait we have that already, just like mcdonalds the intent is not to kill inocent ppl , but there food does kill ppl if not used correctly, just as any food. the main 2 main resons we have gun trade with mexico, there right next door, DUH and drugs. and the reason we have so many guns in the USA, we are a free country. I do beleive we should tax pot, make it legal, but the thing is traces stay in your system so long, its still going to show up in a drug test at ppls work, so they get canned anyways if they use it, but they dont used stand that.
.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Monday, December 17, 2012 - 11:21 am:

I was thinking,people have been choked to death by piano string.Should we outlaw piano's?
People have been thrown in brush chippers,should we outlaw them?
I mean really.If we outlawed everything that can harm someone used improperly,we would have to outlaw brains and hands,because they can be used to kill to.
Just ask a Martial arts expert.he can casterate ye before you can blink.I think it is called the "steal the peach".google it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Lodge - St Louis MO on Monday, December 17, 2012 - 11:23 am:

Mack, someone has commented that we should make forks illegal because of the number of deaths each year caused by obesity....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Colin Knowles - Moncton, New Brunswick on Monday, December 17, 2012 - 11:36 am:

I have watched CNN often this weekend in light of the tragedy in Newtown. Sincere sympathy from myself and fellow Canadians. President Obama gave a very good speech last night. What is gun control? We have guns here in Canada as well for hunting and recreational shooting. The size of the clips is regulated. How many bullets do you need in the magazine to go hunting deer. If you missed him on the first shot, well too bad. Your chances of getting a second shot off are pretty slim at best. Keep hunting. Background checks are required. Handguns are legal with the proper papers and must be stored properly. We don't walk around with them on our belts or in our coats. No need to since no one else is doing it either. Who do you need protection from? Illegal guns are in Canada too. Most often it is the drug dealers who use them to protect themselves from other drug dealers or to intimidate. They usually use them against themselves anyway.
I sent our 6 year old and 10 year old off to school this morning with no fear of guns at or around school. The guns have been put away because hunting season is over. Mine included.
God bless the little ones and teachers in Newtown.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Derek Kiefer - Mantorville, MN on Monday, December 17, 2012 - 11:46 am:

Those children haven't even been buried yet, and people are already using them to push an agenda. Sickening.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Dufault on Monday, December 17, 2012 - 12:32 pm:

I found this relevant to Newtown:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/scott.asp

(about Columbine)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert G. Hester Jr., Riverview, FL on Monday, December 17, 2012 - 12:33 pm:

Amen, Derek. Very sad. :-(


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Monday, December 17, 2012 - 12:39 pm:

I'm glad to know that, at least for the interim, I can go out back and punch as many holes in a target on my 100 yard range as I damn well please. I was taught at a very young age how to shoot and how to do it safely. It is something I have passed along to both my boys and looking forward to passing along to my grandson, when he gets older. It is a way of life for some of us. I guess I can understand the thinking of those of you who have never had the pleasure of the experience. I suppose those that were born and raised in a big city and have never been around guns, don't understand them, and their only experience is seeing murders on the news, etc., just don't understand what legitimate gun ownership is all about. I do very little hunting anymore. I also don't feel like hunting should be have to be one's justification for owning a gun. I would hate to think I had to lock my guns up except during hunting season. I shoot dang near every weekend while striving for smaller and smaller groups. Target shooting is a sport. It is no different from playing ball. It is something you practice so you get better. Not so you can kill at longer distances, but for bragging rights, or just the feeling of accomplishment. There is nothing inherently evil about guns. It is what one chooses to do with them that is either good or evil.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, December 17, 2012 - 12:47 pm:

Sadly, Derek is right. Since Friday Facebook has been full of posts advocating that everybody be packing heat, the more the better, so everybody will be safe. Like Nancy Lanza?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Colin Knowles - Moncton, New Brunswick on Monday, December 17, 2012 - 01:12 pm:

I believe my previous post may be taken out of context. I am a gun owner as well. Grew up with them living in the country, not a big city. I too am teaching my 10 year old responsible handling and respect for the damage they can do. There are "nut jobs" out there everywhere that I agree will do whatever if they put their mind to it. I enjoy target shooting as well. I do feel safer knowing that someone else sitting next to me where ever I am is not carrying. I know not all Americans do that. I was in Hershey this year and never saw one anywhere on my travels.

We have a different society today than what we grew up in. How often do you see kids playing checkers or Monopoly? Our kids play video games like Hockey and Soccer. Other kids in their class are playing games that make me cringe. Their sense of reality is warped. It will take a long time for this to change, if ever.
I am not on some crusade. I just felt like sharing my views from a different point of view.
Happy Model T'ing everyone.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Monday, December 17, 2012 - 01:59 pm:

Colin, may we join you?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Monday, December 17, 2012 - 02:06 pm:

Carrying doesn't bother me a bit. Somebody willing to submit themselves to the background check necessary to have a carry permit, is not going to harm me with their firearm. The guy who wants to harm someone will not submit himself to the background check. He will just do it without the permit.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison on Monday, December 17, 2012 - 02:46 pm:

I like the fact that I've got my permit to carry. It really impresses people. It gets them to understand I've got power over them and they better tow the line. And the girls love to fondle my big gun.

Ok that was a load of crap. I very seldom carry. I've got the permit, but I've got it more for security in my own house. And even then I'm very careful to remember to identify my target and determine the proper way to deal with it. The last thing I need or want to do is shoot a neighbor because he had a few to many beers and wandered into the wrong house.

I'm beginning to believe a lot of our public servants ought to be investigated for their mental stability, given some education on handling a gun, learning target identification and when to shoot and when not to. They should understand center mass and spend some time on the range learning some correct procedures for shooting. Such as which stance to use, whether to shoot from low post or high post and where to seek cover in a fire fight. Things like hiding behind a bookcase instead of a sheetrocked wall that a bullet can go right through.

And then arm certain people in our schools. Put proper equipment in schools for detection and restriction of an unauthorized, threat with a gun.

Teach children and their teachers how to get out of areas where they won't be safe if someone gets into their school.

Stop locking down the school and concentrating people into an area that makes them easy targets.

And let these creeps know that if they go into a school to cause harm that there are armed people there that can cause them harm.

Do fire drills as always but also do drills showing people where to go that might make them safe and yes that may be the back door of the school and running like hell accross the playground for cover.

Back in 1966 we had a guy bring a handgun to school and shoot a kid that had been bullying him for a couple years and he was tired of it. He shot the guy he was looking for and the school administrator that tried to unarm him. The kid that was shot lived, the administrator didn't. But you better believe when we heard the gunfire we didn't go into a locked school and huddle in a corner. We ran like hell and kept running. We were blocks away and peaking around the corner of a church when the cops showed up and had a fire fight with the kid. He finally gave up and even though he had been bullied and litteraly driven to such drastic measures he was incarcerated. He might still be in jail. Of course it was the fall of the year when kids had shotguns in their cars because they were duck hunting after school. A small armed group of students could have probably been put together in a couple minutes. There aren't to many places that can say that now.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Monday, December 17, 2012 - 03:06 pm:

Have you tried to tote a cop? Some of them around here are about as round as they are tall.A gun is a bit lighter if you feel unprotected enough.
I dont tote,should being I cant run or fight.
I just hope they dont outlaw bricks,if they do I will have to help my Dad tear down the house.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Monday, December 17, 2012 - 03:38 pm:

I'm ashamed of you, Ralph. Was it not you preaching about name calling only a couple of days ago?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jay - In Northern California on Monday, December 17, 2012 - 03:44 pm:

liberal Progressives won't be happy until they can burn the Constitution and dance in the ashes! I call their brand of warm and fuzzy thinking Un-American and an affront to all those that died protecting their right to be fools!
I would suggest that all those that just can't stand all the freedoms afforded to American's LEAVE and stop pissing on America's shoe.
Looks like it's time for me to start dubbing up on my blood pressure med's. Sorry I tried biting my tongue.
If each of us was willing to give up one freedom as an American that we could get by without NO AMERICAN would have any freedoms! Our collective freedoms cost to much blood to be pissed away by the misguided. GOD BLESS AMERICA home of the brave and land of the free! Lets keep it that way!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Walker on Monday, December 17, 2012 - 06:05 pm:

Mike Garrison,

I hope you haven't misunderstood my previous statements on this thread. Please read the statements very, very carefully.

I was twelve years old the first time I had to lock and load with the pretense to protect myself and my family's farm from rustlers. Each of us kids was already a crack shot with that little Savage over/under, and law enforcement was over 20 miles away. So there was little to no reason to believe they could do anything to help. Nobody stole any livestock that day.

I fully believe in the right to bear arms. And I don't tolerate "fear". Wasn't Rahm Emmanuel who said something like, "Never let a good crisis go to waste"? If there's a real crisis in the United States of America, it stems from all the crisis construction coming out of Washington, D.C. and the sick minds of those who seek to use the perception of crisis to control people who are supposed to be "free". Mike, do you understand?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tim moore on Monday, December 17, 2012 - 07:49 pm:

I jumped into my truck this morning at 7am and there it was...a loaded pistol between the seats and to top that off I threw in a long gun. Off to work and had both of them with me all day long and access to many others and nobody got shot...again, same thing for almost 17 years now. Nobody got shot because nobody shot at me or displayed a gun in a threatning manner and if they did then they would have been crazy (this is part of my job).

I looked at what my carry license excludes: (I am exempt from some of these).

School or school properity.
Child care or day care...
Bar / Tavern....(I agree here but pull a gun in a bar and you will get a beat down)
Sports arena or stadium.
church, synagouge, mosque..
Entertainment facility (ie, theatre)
Hospital (that is where I would choose to be shot at).
Dorm or classroom of a college or university.
Casino.

Hummm? The "gun free" zones are where you will most likely be shot by a crazy because they know.

Now I am home and nobody will knock down my door in a rural area at 2am and live to walk out. Thank you founding fathers and all that followed to insure my freedom to protect myself and family.

Be prepared or be a victom because there will always be a crazy person around...it began with Cain and Able and hasn't changed, just the method of killing. I have something faster than a rock and would have shot Cain--shot him dead and not let him knock my brains out. Guns aren't going away and if you don't have one get one and learn how to use it and store it safely...or protest them and get shot by a crazy who doesn't care about your views.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison on Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - 12:14 am:

Ok David, and with all the terrible hardships you've faced you're still living in the greatest nation in the world. Your little 12 year old experience doesn't mean that much to me. I'm sorry your Dad died. It's a horrible thing to have happen. My Mother died when she was 47, its hard to lose a parent. But the whole world and this Government isn't necessarily out to take your soul. And when they try we've got every right to fight back.

We have to know our enemies. We have to know who they are, what their motives are and where they come from.

When did people lose faith in people. What the hell happened. Everyone is waiting for some God to help them out of their individual situation. Well God has never helped me with anything. And believe me I've had things go on in my life that make your little experiences pale.

I've been blind and at one time lost the ability to walk. I spent 17 months on chemo-therapy trying to kill a virus that was killing my liver. I'm about a half a step right now from Cirhosis. During that 17 months my hair fell out and I lost about a third of my body weight. I spent one day a week puking in the toilet. I've had legs break and after 3 back surgeries because of degenerative disc disease I fell and broke 4 vertabrae. It took 2 more surgeries to get me to be able to stand on my legs again and every day that goes by brings some pain. I can't get the government to admit the tumor behind my eyes and the one on my adrenal gland that screw my metabolics up to the point I take a handful of pills every night is caused by the agent orange they dropped on me day after day. Of course some of the pills is to combat the PTSD that has cost me 2 marriages and an endless number of jobs until I finally admitted something was wrong and went to a doctor and then retired. Right now I sit by myself day after day. At first it was hard but now I've learned to like it because I don't have to worry about pissing somebody off. Unless its someone on this computer and I make a choice as to how I want to react.

I watched people die in the jungle and watched my boyhood friend lose his leg by a 500 lb bomb that was booby trapped and that he tripped. I picked the leeches that were stuck to my legs off so many times it quit bothering me to do it. I stayed awake for 48 hours in a foxhole in the rain and when some little SOB came by with a charge strapped to his back I shot him in the head. I had flashettes from the LZ fired so close I could hear the whiz in the air, but they had to be that close in order to provide cover. I ate bad food out of cans that was packed in 1942, nearly 30 years before I opened them. I stole clothes from trucks in a convoy in order to have dry socks. My feet turned red and cracked open and bled and bled and bled and to this day if I'm not able to change sock every day my feet start to burn and itch.

If God loves us so much why does he test us and make us pay for simply living on this earth. And why would God think it's reasonable to have some nut job walk into a classroom and kill all those little kids and their teachers. I know people have to have faith in something and I know we all can identify with spirit. It's spirituality that keeps us sane. It gives us something to turn to and pray to. But my spirituality comes from mankind and the strength that comes from being a human. I'm not all that in line with waiting for God to help. He never has and he never will. When I say Pray to God it's not much more than words. Because you might as well pray to the wind.

Now if you can't stand to hear this blasphemous message then look the other way. Because I don't care.

But don't turn your back on my government and my country, I fought to hard for it. I'm not to thrilled with the government messing with our second amendment rights but although most of the people in this country including me think Obama's got his own special agenda it was the majority that put him where he's at and we have to live with it. And for 62 years this is the only government I've ever known and it's changed a lot in those years but it's always been aware of the needs of the people and how to deal with them. Sometimes in my opinion they screw up but it's what the majority want. We vote these people we complain about into office. After doing that we have to accept what they're doing. And as I said if it gets to be too much we have to stand up and tell them no. And the opportunities for telling them no are in place too.

I apologize for coming off the hook on this but I'm getting damn sick and tired of everyone hating my country my government and my people.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - 12:23 am:

Jay, do you defend the 14th Amendment exactly as written?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison on Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - 12:45 am:

I'd like to see someone come in my house and attempt to take my little Colt Officer 45 Acp away from me. Or for that fact take my car at gun point when I'm driving. Or attempt to Rob a store when I'm in it. I carry often but don't always show it. And when I get a little bored I buy a box of expensive jacketed rounds and kill some paper. It's a stress reliever. And after reading my last line of BS it sounds like I need one soon.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willard Revaz on Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - 05:24 pm:

The tragedy in Sandy Hook, CT (about 10 miles from me) has cast a pall all over our state. I saw it while shopping in the malls yesterday. Two of my good friends had direct ties to two of the young students. My wife says, the suffering is over for those lost, it is we who remain who must suffer for a long time. When I heard the following poem while driving, I could hardly see the road. Have your Kleenix nearby. It does some consoling.




This Poem was written by Tabatha Vargo Friday December 14, 2012 for the Newtown, CT Tragedy

The Field Trip

Please donít cry, weíre okay.

We went on a field trip today.

A secret place where thereís fun to be had.

And the principalís with us, so we wonít be bad.

Itís full of toys and rainbow slides.

Cotton candy and high cloud rides.

A funny zoo full of different things.

I even saw a man with wings.

Weíre not alone so donít you fear.

Weíre chaperoned by Jesus here.

Itís really nice so I think Iíll stay.

And hold your spot til your field trip day.

I know Christmas is here and thereís toys to be given.

So please tell Santa that Iím here in heaven.


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