First car from FORD CANADA TO AUSTRALIA 1906

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: First car from FORD CANADA TO AUSTRALIA 1906
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Trevan - Australia on Saturday, December 15, 2012 - 10:33 pm:

Information supplied to me decades ago indicate the first car exported by FORD CANADA to the AUSTRALIAN agents [Davies & Fehon] was a FORD ''K''.It was shipped on the 2nd August 1906.
This recently found [below] article could well be the same car if the unloading along the way could take 68 days for this mentioned car to be unloaded on the 15 th October1906 in SYDNEY.NEW SIX-CYLINDER FORD CAR.
One of the nicest-looking motor cars landed in Syd-
ney was unpacked on Thursday afternoon by Messrs.
Davies and Fehon, of Margaret street. The new vehicle
is a 40-h.p. Ford car, made in America. It has a
speed up to 50 miles an hour. The transmission is
on the planetary system. The frame is of pressed
Fix this text
steel. The circulation is by geared pump. Holley
magneto and ordinary accumulator and coil, are fitted,
The cylinders, which are cast separately, are very
neat. The frame Is especially well stayed. Ball-
bearings are fitted to the front wheels and wheel
steering is by patent reduction gears, which take off

the strain on the roughest roads. The springs are
very strong, and look to be suitable for Australian
work. They are 8-ply full elliptic, on the rear, and
half elliptic on the front. There are, strange to say,
only two speeds and a reverse on the motor. The
easy running of the vehicle, however, which yester-
day started easily on the switch, makes any more
than two speeds unnecessary. In fact, it is question-
able if there is any ordinary hill that the machine
will not climb at her top. The second gear is only
an emergency one, to be used case of some ex-
ceptionally severe gradient being encountered. The
new model, which is the first of its kind out here,
is fitted with side entrance. The body,-which is of
the Victorian type, is painted dark blue with rounded
panels, and is graceful in every line. The upholster-
ing is very handsome. The car was imported for Mr.
L. Davies.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 12:02 am:

Bob

Good point

Think it goes back to the fact than not all orders and supply went via Canada.

Here is another add for the next K arrival for Davies & Fehon including the first N's to NSW. See if the days line up for this one

There were Ford dealers in Victoria in 1905 prior to this but i can't quite date it but they sold F's


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 12:04 am:

Wops

Add details are:

1907-02-06 Wed-K & First NRS Ford Arrives-SMH P12 364737

Mark


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Trevan - Australia on Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 12:13 am:

Mark --you may note in my article that it says that the water was circulated by a gear pump. I sure that the gear pump was only used on the very first few cars which may indicate that this ''K '' mentioned was my car before it died 150 miles away near Newcastle.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kerry van Ekeren (Australia) on Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 12:51 am:

Who would have been the primary customer for exports from Canada in 1906, England? 76 were exported.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Trevan - Australia on Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 12:59 am:

Here is a AUSTRALIAN Victorian FORD dealer with an ''F' parked outside .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Deichmann, Blistrup, Denmark on Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 03:46 am:

I do not know when the deal was cut, from a certain point - maybe from the start - Canada only delivered to the rest of Commonwealth while England got it from the US or after 1911 made more and more parts themselves.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Stokes on Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 04:48 am:

An interesting topic!

Kerry and Michael,
Ford of Canada was founded in 1904, to supply the Canada market and the British Empire nations, except Britain. This was to take advantage of tariff schemes. Britain would be supplied by the US.

As time went by, an increasing number of components were made by the Canadian company and, after is was established, Ford - England. At the outset, few parts were made outside the USA.

Another complicating aspect is the export agent, and the shipping agents. Robert M Lockwood was the Ford - US export agent, and he also acted for Ford of Canada, from 1904 to 1910 (I may be a year or so out on that second date). Lockwood was based in New York (being the major centre of world trade at that time). He appointed a variety of shipping agents. For the New Zealand market, he appointed Peabody & Co. but he appointed a completely different one for Australia.

I strongly suspect (but cannot prove) that some Canadian export sales may have been supplied directly by the US company, with the paperwork showing the sale as a Ford of Canada one, but with the vehicle not actually ever crossing the border into Canada.

John Stokes
New Zealand


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 04:51 am:

Bob

I have looked at that photo before. The car out side that Castlemaine Ford dealer is not a Ford. here is a closer shot showing the crank handle comming out of the radiator.

The K with gear pump could very well be your car. There were very few k's imported, maybe 6 to Australia. Still working on that


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kerry van Ekeren (Australia) on Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 05:13 am:

Thanks John, a little poking around and I've found the early exports from Canada, went to Calcutta, India.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Trevan - Australia on Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 03:05 pm:

Well Well !! an ''F'' on steroids

It's the part at the end of the written story on the ''F'' being serviced at HARRISON FORD thats interesting.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Chantrell - Adelaide, Australia on Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 04:10 pm:

There was an early Ford regeitered in SA with no record of how it got here. Mr. Gus Ebling of Semaphore had a "12hp Ford" registered #249. Not saying it came from Canada either.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 09:52 pm:

Bob

Here is a copy of the front cover of Canadian Ford times that the article on Castlemaine Ford is from. Dates Aug 1915 less 5 years is 1910. There are at least another 2 photos of the same dealership floating around.

Don't worry, i though it was an F Ford too when i first read it and didn't know till a clearer photo was available.

I haven't seen a photo of an F in Australia but know they were sold in Vic, NSW, SA (as David has helped me with before) and possibly Tas which also had at least one AC or C 10HP car.

It is very difficult to search on the Victorian papers on line for some reason.

Dane might be better with the Vic Papers and could help out here with 10- 12HP Fords in Australia

Thank Bob

Mark

378140 1915-08 Ford Times-Canada 01.jpg


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 10:22 pm:

Bob

Some info for you on K in Aust

First K to Aust From Canada via Crossman & S..... NY USA to Sydney Aust I can find is #210, shipped on Aug 2 1906 as you have said. The second Car is #207, (same shipping detils) was shipped on Sept 27 1906

(#211 to NZ in Oct 1906)

341060 Model K Production.jpg


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 10:35 pm:

Bob

Here is the first article referring to the first K arriving at Davies & Fehon , Sydney details:

1906-10-15 Mon-K Ford Arrives-SMH P11 364735

If you read it, the car arrived on the previous Thursday making the arrival date Thu 1906-Oct-12

1906-10-15 Mon-K Ford Arrives-SMH P11 364735.jpg


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 10:38 pm:

type pic again

1906-10-15 Mon-K Ford Arrives-SMH P11 364735.jpg


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 10:49 pm:

Bob

I count 71 days (or 10 weeks) for the car to arrive at Davies & Fehon (a few days less to clear the docks). Is it possible for a ship to arrive that soon as you say?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 11:25 pm:

Bob

Attached is a copy (does anyone have a better copy?) of a photo taken at the 1906 New York motor Show which I believe was in January 1906. It shows a K display Chassis and a full car. Rumour says there was a third demonstration car outside. (not sure if this is true). As John Hughes and yourself have suggested, it is possible your #2 is one of these cars and could have travelled the world to auto shows, being demonstrators, were most likely owned by Ford USA. They may have ended up in Australia in 1906.

Mark


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Sunday, December 16, 2012 - 11:35 pm:

Bob

Here is a copy of great piece of information gathered by John Hughes about NSW registrations in 1911. It clearly states that Ford Motor Co (possibly USA) had 3 cars registered in NSW in 1911. 2x K's and 1 x N,R,S, simular figures to the ones at NY motor Show. As John & Yorself have suggested, this most likely is your K. The location of the address at 135 Castleraigh St Sydney is same as "Sydney Motor Garage" Ford Dealers

Note there is a C and F and many NRS also registered in NSW in 1911. Thanks John for this fantastic info.

384811 1911 Ford Registrations NSW AC or C-F-NRS-K-John Hughes 1989.jpg

Mark


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Trevan - Australia on Monday, December 17, 2012 - 12:32 am:

Thanks Mark,
I read once were the record for a sailing ship from the West Coast USA to AUSTRALIA WAS 47 DAYS.
I think that most ships from the car manufacturing east coast of USA in those times would have at least stopped at NEW ZEALAND --FIGI -and Brisbane on their trip.

Re , NEW .SOUTH .WALES . registrations . ---Registrations did not commence till 1910.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dane Hawley Near Melbourne Australia on Monday, December 17, 2012 - 05:02 am:

There is another reference to the 40 h.p. Ford on the 24th October 06-

THE 40 H.P. FORD CAR.


The new 40 h.p. 6-cylinder Ford car, recently im- ported by Mr. Davies, had several trials during the past week which turned out most successful. Through- out the various trips the car was practically driven on her top gear. The silent running of the motor was amply demonstrated, and the speed on good stretches often attained a rate of 45 to 50 miles an hour. A feature worth noticing in the running of the new model is the almost complete absence of dust. The height of the body from the ground and the general design of the car is no doubt responsible for this. As one of the latest types of American motors the new car is well worthy of inspection

Original can be found here-
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/14811939?searchTerm=Ford%20Motor%20Car&s earchLimits=exactPhrase


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Trevan - Australia on Monday, December 17, 2012 - 05:39 am:

HiDan, Well done on this find.
I wonder what is meant by ''this new model'' in the article?.

Is it referring to this new type of 6 cylinder car ?

Or is it referring to the new model for 1907 ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Kable on Monday, December 17, 2012 - 06:58 am:

Bob, The distance from east coast USA to Sydney via South America or east coast USA to Sydney via South Africa takes nearly the same time, Maybe some boats came from the west to east and therefore went to New Zealand last.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Monday, December 17, 2012 - 08:00 am:

Bob,

I think the 1907 version of the K, with it's significant improvements, caused both Ford and outside reviewers to notice the performance of the K.. Almost all ads for 1907 (starting with Oct 1906) raise the top speed from 50 to 60 miles per hour. Also, the early ads mention a 20% increase in horsepower.

We also know the wheelbase was expanded from 114 to 120 inches, and the lube points from the oiler now included oil lines to each cylinder. I've also seen ads saying the K 6-40 (roadster) is capable of 70 mph.

Ford also moves away from using the "K" model designator in the ads, often calling the touring the "Ford 6", and the roadster the Ford "6-40"

Lastly, I've found several ads that mention that the Ford 6 seats five "spaciously", and seven "comfortably". I've only found one ad that says jump seats are optional. Have you by chance ever seen original pics of a K with jump seats?

Rob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ray Green on Monday, December 17, 2012 - 08:49 am:

Hi guys, Thats a great list that John Hughes has made out but I think number 16 is not a ford, Dr Machattie of Bathurst owned a 1909 Brush which is still in Bathurst and belongs to the Bathurst District Historical Society....
It would be great to go to some of those addresses that is listed and see if the cars are still there, we all know they are gone but it would be great to find. John had a model K which he did a lot of work on and was chasing info from the US all the time, but who has it now to finish his work... Ray


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Monday, December 17, 2012 - 09:04 am:

Two K ads, 1906 and 1907. Notice the 1906 says "50 MPH". The l1907 ad says 60 mph for the touring, 70 for the roadster (hard to read, but it says 70mph "if you dare"). Also, the "letter" designations are dropped for the K touring and roadster, along with the S runabout. The letter is still used to identify the Model N.





Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Stokes on Monday, December 17, 2012 - 01:40 pm:

When one sees the combined range of Fords, the price difference between the small economical cars and the large, luxurious car really does hit home. I wonder if it unwittingly offered a little reverse psychology? One could buy five little Model Ns for the price of one of the larger cars. That is a loud message for the "common man" who Henry so wanted to bring the joy of motoring to.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Trevan - Australia on Monday, December 17, 2012 - 03:13 pm:

Hi Rob,
Can't say i have ever seen a mention of jump seats [or a picture.] But what has turned up from this Forum Site one can never tell.

G'Day Peter Cable--Your spot on re that shipping --
Makes sense when coming from the east side of USA to go in that direction.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Monday, December 17, 2012 - 05:02 pm:

Bob,

I've seen quite a few ads for the 07/08 Model K that says "seats five luxuriously, seven comfortably". It is usually in the "fine print" so easily missed. Below are two examples. The 5/7 seat portion is in the box at the bottom of the ads.

I'm in the process of building two jump seats for our K. I'm using the jump seats in an 09 T Towncar because they are small and don't take up much room.





Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Trevan - Australia on Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - 01:04 am:

7 comfortably-WOW!! McDONALD's MUST NOT HAVE ARRIVED YET.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - 05:03 am:

Gents

the add Dane is referring to is:

1906-10-24 Wed-K Ford drive Test-SMH P12

This add went into the SMH 9 days after the original K arrival add:

1906-10-15 Mon-K Ford Arrives-SMH P11

So, the new car referral would be a reference to the first K imported by Davies & Fehon and not a new model.

Thanks

Mark


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - 05:10 am:

Here is the second K imported by Davies & Fehon (not counting Bob's car (another 1906 built K)

date of add is:

1907-02-06 Wed-K & First NRS Ford Arrives-SMH P12 364737


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - 05:19 am:

Next reference I can find is the Motor Mart of Sydney, Selling Agent for Ford. It is unknown if this is the same car Davies and Fehon imported and passed to the selling agent or another import.

1907-02-13 Wed-K & N For Sale-SMH P12 364740


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - 05:23 am:

Here is a reference to more than one K in Sydney

Reference 1907-02-16 Sat-K & N For Sale-SMH P16 364741


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - 05:27 am:

Here is evidence K's 3rd & 4th at least arrived in Sydney (not counting Bob's car)

1907-03-13 Wed-N & K 4 Sale-SMH P02 364743



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - 05:32 am:

Here is the 5th K to Sydney I can find (at least one K imported in this add)

1907-04-27 Sat-K & N For Sale-SMH P21 364748


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - 05:36 am:

A bit off track, but this advertisement for the K 24 Race in USA

1907-08-23 Fri-K ford-24 Race-Detroit USA-SMH P10 364765


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dane Hawley Near Melbourne Australia on Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - 05:36 am:

It seems that at least another K arrived in Late January or early February 1907.

From the SMH 6th February Page 12-

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/14850383?searchTerm

NEW MOTOR CARS.

Mr Davies of Davies and Fehon has just landed a
40 h.p. six-cylinder Ford Car and three 18 h.p. four-cylinder runabout vehicles by the same maker. The larger car has hitherto been described in this column but the smaller type has only just arrived in Sydney

The cylinders in each of the latter three vehicles which were inspected are cast in pairs. The valves both inlet and exhaust, are interchangeable. The crank- shaft, which is set at an angle of 180 degrees, is made of a drop forging from chrome nickel steel. The water cooling is by cellular radiator and centri-
fugal pump. Accumulator and coil ignition are used instead of magneto. Transmission is by the Ford planetary system with spur gears. The final drive is by Cardan shaft with single universal joint to bevel drive gears in live rear axle. The frame of the car is of pressed steel. The spark and throttle con- trol are said to allow speeds from 3 to 40 miles an hour. The new models which are painted maroon are very handsome little machines, and, being moderate in price should command a ready market out here.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - 05:45 am:

Gents

Reason K sales and all Ford sales slow down for latter part of 1907 in Sydney (aust & NZ)


1907-04-12 Fri-Ford 4 Sale-SMH P10 364746:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - 05:54 am:

Dane

Thanks for the info. Think that was covered off in 2nd K. Please keep looking especially in Victoria. If Sydney was doing it, Melbourne would be too although my last posting points out there is a shortage of NRS due to NZ sales in early 07, about when Tarrant started business.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Trevan - Australia on Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - 06:04 am:

WOW !! Thanks all --What a great bevy of information has surfaced.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - 06:14 am:

I can't find an advertisement for K from 1907-05-01 to 1908-01-04 for Motor Mart of Sydney. Plenty of N, R S only adds. This could mean that all 5 Ks mentioned previously in Sydney were sold and a 6th K is now advertised. (keep looking Dane)

1908-01-04 Sat-K & N for Sale-SMH P03 364774



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - 06:27 am:

Can't Find any more sales advertisements for Sydney for K Fords. Does anyone know when the "if you take 10 x NRS Fords, you must take a K" Ford policy came out? I'm sure this applied to Australia. This meant a few more K's arrived to possibly NSW Vic & WA at least.

Perth Motor House advertised the K in 1908 for a few months. Is this the 7th Ausie K?

1908-05-30 Sat-N & K 4Sale-West Australian P15 364783:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - 06:35 am:

Now for Qld

Earliest Ford Dealer I can find Turk & Cliff

1908-09-30 Wed-Turk & Cliff Ford-Bris Courier P08 364791

It is documented that Don Roberts Family Ford Dealership had a K traded in at Ipswich Qld in the late teens / 20's. The motor ended up in a boat that floated down the Brenner / Brisbane Rivers in the 1974 flood and sunk. Is this the 8th K in Aust?

Turk & Cliff sold N R SR Fords at the time in Qld


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - 06:41 am:

Turk & Cliff Became Turk and Co in 1908. here is an add from Bob Trevan

374169a 1908 R or S Ford-Turk & Co Ltd-Sole Ford Agents-331 Queen St-Brisbane


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - 06:48 am:

Sorry, Tarrant of Victoria didn't start selling Fords until early 1908 (any other info is welcome)

So if they sold K's it would most likely be part of the 10 x N R S , 1x K deal

1908-02-17 Mon-Tarrant Ford-Argus P02 364777


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - 06:54 am:

South Australia did have at least 1 F Ford and a few N's we know of. No evidence of a K.

So now we have listed 8 K's plus the 2 K's registered by Ford Motor Co in 1911 in NSW (one of which, most likely owned by Bob Trevan) = 10 K's.

Here is where one of the NSW K's ended up by 1915

"Mark,
Lo & Behold this has turned up in the 1915 list
Rego 9603 Ford 30HP John Skinner Deniliiquin "Waratah"
Hal"


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - 07:07 am:

My question is, even if say 2 of these K's are doubled up in my listing, where are the other 8 x K's in the Canadian Ledgers. Obviously they were coming directly from USA and not via Canada.

Thanks to Bob Trevan, Dane, John Hughes, Hal Moloney, Trove Australia for their help with information.

May I suggest to you all to put all your information in the following format and the computer will automaticly sort files as you add them

Date in Reverse - Day - info - Publication - Page
IE:

1908-02-17 Mon-Tarrant Ford-The Argus P02

Someday someone or a group of people is going to put his all together and its going to be a lot easier to follow for all.

Thanks

Mark


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - 07:20 am:

One more note

Earliest add for Ford Motor Agency, 253-255 Elizabeth St Sydney I can find is

1908-11-21 Sat-Ford Agency-SMH P03 364801

They must have taken over from Motor Mart of Sydney for Ford Sales and later moved to 133-135 Castlereagh St Sydney, where the Motor Co K's & N's were registered in 1911


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ray Green on Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - 07:33 am:

Hey there Guys, as I under stand this thread, you are saying that there were no other early ford PRE the Model "K" ever shipped to this country from Canada, then the "A", "B" and "C" models you are saying came from America or were shipped here after the Model K arrived.
Now in the notes that Peter Kable had and the photos was a Pre K (like a model A) with a sign saying it was the first ford in Australia, which is featured in lots of books as the first Ford so you are saying they are all wrong??? now we know that photo was taken in the 1920's so when and were did all the pre K's come from please.... Ray


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - 07:59 am:

No Ray, there were A's C's F's B's K , N R S, SR imported to Australia. Canada looked after the F dealers in Vic, that i know. A's came direct from USA in early / mid 1904 i'm fairly certain. As for B , i don't know. K N R S SR were supposed to come from Canada but a few slipped through the USA door, i'm sure. So far we have C's in Tas, NSW and WA. WA one was imported via England second hand. The other 2 I don't know. Were all still learning. I have found a fait hint of a B in Sydney. Not 100% convinced it was a B.

Mark


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ray Green on Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - 08:21 am:

Well mark then there is a very good chance that there were others shipped before the K then, maybe peter can give us more details on what he knows and found which could tell us if the K was first???
I am sure the photo said Model A but not going out to the loft to find out now. There are two very early fords with in 100Km west of me that are not Model K, like 04 or 05 from what the owner tells me but have not been out to see them yet as I am into collecting WW2 jeeps just now... Ray


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - 08:30 am:

Wow, I go to sleep one night, and this thread goes "wild" :-).

I'll respond to a few of the posts as I read them.

Bob,
I was unable to find a particular ad I've seen that said "seats seven with optional jump seats", but i have seen it (not verbatim). I'll keep searching.

All,

Carl Pate told me during all his research for his book, he found no evidence of a letter telling from Ford telling agents they needed to take one K for every ten NRS cars, or anything remotely similar.

I did find an advertisement that said a dealer in New York had sold 1400 NRS and 130 Models K during the year. I thought this showed a nice ratio of K to N sales.

I suspect the "one K for every ten NRS" is a myth.

Good to see all you "blokes" from down under are busy on the night shift of the forum. Always interesting to see what you've found during our sleep time.

Happy Holidays,

Rob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - 11:56 am:

This thread has drifted "far and wide" concerning early Fords to Australia. On "drift" was the reference about dealers taking one K for every 10 N(RS). As I mentioned earlier, there doesn't appear to be any written evidence of this requirement by Ford (although the posts on this thread proves "never say never").

I'm of the opinion that the K was a good (very good for it's intended market) seller on it's own. Below is a mention of a New York agent who has had record sales, selling 1400 Ns and 130 Ks. This appears to be a solid number of Ks, and I'd guess no Ford coercion could cause these type of sale numbers.

Opinions?

Rob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Trevan - Australia on Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - 03:45 pm:

Rob ,
You will probably never find that 10 to1 ratio publicised anywhere.The job of moving slow moving FORD metal was[and still is] the FORD reps.main task . This is a very complex exercise that goes on day by day between the the dealer and the rep that can be influence in many ways[that i won't mention] but when it comes to survival between dealers there no holds bard.
DEALER TO REP,--I will take 1K if you give me 10 N's
REP TO DEALER --Done deal.
--INTURN THE LITTLE DEALER GETS NO ''N''s


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Trevan - Australia on Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - 04:02 pm:

Rob,
Could it be that the group of 4 ladies in the front''K'' be using ''dickie '' seats ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Stokes on Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - 04:28 pm:

I will check to see what "American Business Abroad" says about all of this. It may touch on it.

As an aside, New York City had just one Ford agent during that period (going by the addresses for Ford branches in the period publications) and Gaston Plantiff was one of the highest paid Ford employees - possibly the third highest paid.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Trevan - Australia on Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - 04:36 pm:

Hi JOHN,

It will probable blow a fuse if you give it all this info.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - 04:42 pm:

Bob,

It looks like a possibility they are sitting on jump seats. I'm considering a type that fold up to the back of the front seat. The castings are from the jump seats in a 1909/10 T Towncar.

Two 1906 Ks and N, great pic. The N has the early radiator neck. Are the N headlamps partially black?

Thanks,

Rob




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Chantrell - Adelaide, Australia on Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - 05:05 pm:

Great to see Mark posting about 'K's; fascinating. As Mark says above there are none in SA. We did have an 'F' and at least one 'N', Mark has both of these already on record.

Guys - KEEP POSTING!!! This is how we learn and broaden our knowledge. This is a great thread and I have learned so much I did not know.

I would love a 'K', but sadly I don't think I will ever be able to have one. Many years ago I heard there was an unrestored 'K' remains in the Hunter Valley? (NSW) somewhere. Is it still there? Does anybody know?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Trevan - Australia on Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - 06:17 pm:

David ,

As you say --I think we have all learnt a lot.

Re, The remains of 'K''in the hunter valley--THAT IS MY ''K''
.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Trevan - Australia on Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - 06:30 pm:

Seems obvious there must have been some ''Ks'' in MELBOUNE as the below add in the MOTORIST MAGAZINE indicates a welder capable of welding a ''K'' crankshaft as shown pictured.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - 08:36 pm:

Ouch............

I don't want to ever see one of those again. :-(


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dane Hawley Near Melbourne Australia on Wednesday, December 19, 2012 - 05:21 am:

I have trawled through newspapers published on 'Trove' and have made lists of articles that have relevance to things I am interested in. My list of Ford references is here-

http://trove.nla.gov.au/list?id=10171

The third item on the list is to Page 2 of the SMH for Wednesday the 6th July 1904. A small advert appears under 'Bicycles and Motor Cars' which states-

FORD MOTOR, Tonneau pattern. 8 h. power, double
cylinder, just landed. Orient Motor Buckboard,
WILLIAM FLEMING.24 Clarence-street.

Is it possible that Mr. Fleming was importing Fords before Davies and Fehon?

Incidentally if you follow the trail of D & F, that company does seem to have something to do with Motor Mart as the sales agent for Fords, but MM also sold other vehicles including being listed as the outlet for FIAT cars under the 'Sole Agent Mark Foy'. Motor Mart Advertised Ford up to late 1908, and then on Feb. 6th 1909, 'Ford Motor Agency' of Elizabeth Street advertises the cars. Seems that even that thread is an interesting one to be followed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Thursday, December 20, 2012 - 08:16 am:

for First Ford imports to Australia, go to:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/328982.html?1356009021


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dane Hawley Near Melbourne Australia on Thursday, December 20, 2012 - 03:10 pm:

Thanks Mark. I had forgotten about that thread. You will see that I have those advertisements in my Trove lists.

Following Bob's train of thought though, can it be ascertained where Fleming sourced his cars?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Trevan - Australia on Thursday, December 20, 2012 - 03:21 pm:

I always thought that Mark Foy owned [or part owned] MOTOR MART.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dane Hawley Near Melbourne Australia on Friday, December 21, 2012 - 05:23 am:

Bob, I do believe he certainly had a hand in that enterprise. So far I have not found any confirmation.

I did come across this clever (although slightly inaccurate) quip from SMH 20th Dec. 1902--

"Mark Foy's motor car is propelled by acetylene gas. Most of the Sydney 'buses , are propelled by a set o' lean horses. Sydney Sportsman,"


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