Herm, At the time I thought it was a little theatrical too. He touched and wiped his eyes for effect at the right time. But he also did what he was expected to do. And he honored the children and their families. He was a little more timely about it then he's been in other disasters and in reality what would this nation expect him to do. At this point in time it's not about dislike for our president. I don't care for the disingenuous way he presents himself. The sincerity seems to be lacking. However out of respect for his position and because of the purpose for his presentation and the fact he's a father I'm not ready to attack him during this troubled time.
When I heard of the terrible things that had happened I had tears in my eyes and they were real. But they were there for a reason. I'm going to show you a link and ask you to read it. It's a little long but you'll understand why I'd rather not get carried away by your post. I was standing less than 30 yards away when the following event happened. It involved a friend who was close to me as was his family. His brother and I were classmates. I haven't seen either since graduation.
"In the News"
Twenty-eight people, including the gunman, are dead following a shooting at an elementary school in the U.S. state of Connecticut.
Twenty-three people are injured in a knife attack at a primary school in the Chinese province of Henan.
The guy broke something like ten laws before he killed all those kids, including stealing the guns, murdering his mother, and breaking into the school.
Nut cases will stage exotic, dreadful attacks to make themselves famous. As long as the media is willing to devote lots of air time to these things we can expect more of them.
Gun confiscation will create more unarmed victims and unleash a new era of government intrusion, taxation and useless government spending.
Here's a Wiki page on one of the worst mass murders in US history. Notice no guns were needed - only a nut case is needed.
Medium is singular. Media are plural.
And idiots are many.
I can't remember ever seeing more than 3 mediums at any 1 carnival. But wait is 3 medium "media"? I thought media was an abrasive normally used to create a desired finish on something. When do you know when the media finish is finished?
You should never listen to too much media, lest you fill your ears with sand. dont even ask about watching it.
Why doesn't Canada have a similar percentage of nutjobs?
because they dont have guns that make them kill people.
you know if you pick one up, you will shoot somone.
I wondered how long it would take to somehow link this terrible tragedy to President Obama, or find a way to criticize him over the tragedy. Obviously, not long.
I wonder how this fellow's comments are received by the parents of the victims.
By the way, isn't this guy one of "the media"? (mediums).
As a former law enforcement officer (including several years as an investigator working violent crimes) I really don't understand why in the hell anyone needs an assault rifle!
The last thing I wanted to see when serving search warrants or stopping suspicious people or vehicles was an assault rifle. And don't give me that self defense BS. A shotgun is the best home defense weapon available. Semi automatic weapons are meant for one purpose, assaulting/killing humans.
Regarding the story I posted earlier. I was on the Facebook site with my classmates from High School earlier. We've been discussing the events of this past Friday and of course the whole thing that happened at our school in 1966. We had a lengthy discussion going when one of the girls said that David was her cousin. She related how much tension still existed in her family because of what he did. After 46 years the emotions still come out and people still hurt. The year before we had one of the boys in our school stab his girlfriend to death. He was 15, she was 16. The year before that I was with my Dad at a store/bar down the road about 3 miles from home. I watched a boy get hit and killed by a car. At that time the speed limit was 65 mph. That's a sight I'll have burned in my mind. For a time during my teens I wondered why these things happened to people I know. Since then I've learned that life can be very fatal. During 2012 we've lost 6 or 7 classmates to cancer. Altogether since we graduated it's been around 20. It seems like any more when we're not wishing someone a happy birthday we're talking about someone's funeral. But the world might as well get use to me, I plan on living right up until the second I die. Or like Grandpa use to say "If I make it through the Winter, I'll be around till Spring". And everyone around the table would say "uh huh".
why do we have cars that can go 150mph? why do we have hotrods with 500hp? why drive a f-250 to church....we dont need them so lets make them illegal.
because we can, and this is a free country. every other country in the world controls everything you do, In America we embrace certain rights. there are many other countries that dont.
its just like the 50 bmg, outlawed in california, yet not a single person has been killed in north america with one.note the fact that the guy that killed these inoccent children used handguns, not an assault rifle.
And yes, I will buy an assault rifle for the sole purpose of defending myself, because if somone wants to attack you, they dont care if society thinks assault rifles are "scary".
Rob, we are in total agreement. I own a handgun for home defense. I'm well trained in it's use and I keep an extra clip, although I don't know why, if I can't do it with 7 I doubt another sevens going to improve my predicament. I use to shoot a lot of high power rifle. I use to love going to the range with a model 700 remington and see how tight I could get my groups. I loved Fox and Coyote hunting and I did good out to about 300 to 320 yards. I shot a 22-250. We'd load em hot and that little pill was really moving. When I hunted Antelope in Wyoming I ended up with some long shots too. I hunted out there with a .280. I used the same caliber for mule deer. We used to have a saying in camp; "Anyone that would shoot a .270 would have sex with sheep and drink Budweiser beer." When I hunted deer I would hunt in the woodlands up in Northern Minnesota and I loved my 30-06, although later in life I found a 30-30 lever action was more than adequate. And I never once needed a semi-auto with a 20 to 50 up to 100 round clip for anything. When I was in Nam it was nice, but here? Forget it. Actually I was surprised when the AR15 Was suddenly on the market. I remember the first guy that I knew that bought one immediately changed the sear in it and do whatever else he needed to, in order to make it fire in full automatic. And the answer for why he needed it was; "Whata ya mean?" That was in the early 80's as I recall.
Why hasn't it happened in Canada?
Because they don't have as many people as we have. They have half as many as California.
In Aurora Colorado there were 7 theaters playing that same movie the night that crazy bastrd went in one theater and shot all those people.
Why did he pick that theater?
BECAUSE IT WAS THE ONLY ONE WITH A SIGN THAT SAID NO CARRY PERMIT GUNS ALLOWED!!
WHY THE HELL WOULD HE GO ANY PLACE ELSE?
What about the guy who shot two people in a shopping center in Washington recently?
and then shot himself??
Your lewd leftist hate America commie ass kissers didn't report that after he shot two people a 22 year old guy pulled a gun and pointed it at him. He stopped shooting other people and shot himself.
What about the guy that shot all those people in a religious center in Colorado (Arvada?)and then went to Colorado Springs and shot a few people in a church parking lot? When he went into the church a young lady ducked behind a book case in the lobby and stepped out and shot him dead. She had a carry permit. How many lives did she save because she was armed?
This last guy was on the similar drugs that all the rest were taking. All those young people that shot up schools were on anti-depressants, including the one in Stockton, Ca. about 30 years ago. If you'd have watched 60 minutes you'd have heard his neighbor lady say he was on those drugs.
Those mass murders ALWAYS happen in places where guns are not allowed. doesn't that tell you anything?
Ban guns??? BAN PERSCRIPTION MEDICINE for young people that don't need it and let us protect ourselves from those who do..
check out the teacher and what she has on her back.
Executive order or not, a president can't just eliminate or modify amendments to the constitution. The states and people won't go for it. The whole purpose of the 2nd Amendment is to ensure that "We the People" retain control of our government "of the people, by the people and for the people". It keeps tyranny from taking over.
The right to use whatever force necessary to over come the resistance is stead-fast. Whether it be a sling shot or an assault rifle, it's the right of every citizen to keep it in the event we are required to form a militia. That's why we need assault and high powered weapons--To ensure the security of our citizens.
"...the right to keep and bare arms shall not be infringed." That's pretty clear to me. The authors of many statements about gun control are also clearly constitutional bigots. The thought that eliminating arms will keep us safe has to come from a coward that sees himself separated from responsibility. We have arms to protect citizens as well as ourselves.
As often written; "...the point of the Second Amendment is to ensure security of our nation, not undermine it." But how can you have security without the right to protect yourself? The second amendment also gives the citizens of the United States the right to form militias to ensure that security. How can you form a militia to ensure the safety of citizens if the citizens aren't allowed to bare arms? And, it's the intent of the second amendment to keep that right un-infringed.
I feel bad for all those affected by the recent tragedy but putting restrictions on my rights, guaranteed by the constitution, will not prevent the recurrence of the same act. The fact that we are allowed to bare arms keeps the occurrence of such tragedies fewer. It's been proven in many communities and countries already that gun control doesn't control crime. Had a single one of us that are trained and licensed to carry a weapon been there, I feel the situation wouldn't have left the parking lot. That is "security of our citizens". Running and crying about how and why someone was able to break the law is a cowardice escape for a citizen. I'm no vigilante but I do place a value and responsibility on my citizenship and the rights that I have earned.
I don't know about other states but the background check in Texas for the Concealed Handgun License (CHL) is more stringent than that required to become a police officer in Texas. If you trust a cop, you should be able to trust a CHL holder, at least in Texas. CHL holders have a proven propensity to obey the law, not use the right to break it. But in all fairness, there was one such case out of two million CHL holders. You can't state better ods than that even for the police.
The gun law debate is about to take off again in the USA.
From way down here in little old New Zealand, I am not about to offer an opinion as to what you should do in the USA. I know so little about it. But having a gun seems to be a part of the US culture. Quite why I do not understand.
All I would hope for you is that you open your minds and really question why you have this need for guns. Maybe you'll come up with some sound reasons to have them. Maybe you'll come up with some good reasons for not having them. Either way, it would be a good thing to debate it reasonably - but first some must be prepared to open their minds.
I clearly stated WHY citizens of the US need guns.
The US is a country of free people that make up the "government". We don't have kings, queens or rulers. We live under laws that keep a single branch of the government from becoming too powerful. The three branches of our government are supposed to be equal. When any single branch tries to take power, the constitution allows the citizens of the US to dissolve that government and organize a new government. Having the power of militias keeps our country sovereign.
(temporary out of political lurk mode) Ken, that theory was perhaps valid in the 1700's. Didn't work out in the 1860's, and today the government has even more technological and industrial superiority.
Just like our grandfathers and fathers brought back the rifles they entered combat in during WW1 and WW2, the last 2 generations of returning servicemen often prefer to use the rifles they were trained to use when they return to the US and hunt. Here in central South Dakota, many coyote hunters use AR-15 style rifles to hunt the wiley coyotes, that often come in 2 or 3 at a time to a call. A number of my friends have accurized their "assault rifles" to shoot prairie dogs and other varmints, as well as to target shoot. In the southern states, where wild hogs cause millions of dollars of damage by rooting up crops, trees, and property, many hunters are using these same rifles to hunt these hogs, which often are in small groups or herds of 3-15 pigs. The cap and ball musket was the "assault rifle" of the civil war, the 97 Mauser was the "assault rifle" of the Spanish-American war. the 30-06 Springfield the "assault rifle" of the first world war, the Browning automatic rifle the "assault rifle" of WW2 and the Korean War, and the M-16 the "assault rifle" of the Viet nam War, the Gulf war, and the current preferred firearm of the US. I grew up with a 18 shot tubular magazine .22 Marlin semi-automatic rifle that I shot hundreds of squirrels, rabbits, and starlings with as a young teen. Although it hasn't a detachable magazine, it is still rapid fire semi-automatic and would be classed, in today's political climate, as an "assault rifle".
Don't need a tragedy to criticize Ohbummer. The guy brings it on all by himself.
But hey, liberals criticized Bush when he sneezed...grin..
Bush was a chickenhawk draft dodger who sent 4,000 military to their deaths fighting a war for oil.
You guys who defend the NRA interpretation of the 2nd Amendment, and who accuse all others of hating the Constitution, have failed to mention your support for the 14th Amendment. C'mon, let's hear it.
Perhaps your theory is that history is now bunk, that the individual is powerless today against a totalitarian government.
I believe in our right as USA citizens is to be armed to resist tyranny.
Just look what is going on now in Arab countries right now, 'insurgents', 'rebels' all armed, are fighting against regimes. Even without the politics of the why, and what the outcome will be, Islamic idealists armed, are fighting oppression.
Heck, our US State Department has even 'recognized' these rebels as representing their oppressed peoples. The US govt is even providing $ and arms to them.
Seemingly our Congress and Executive branch supports other citizens of foreign nations to be allowed to be armed to throw off tyranny, why would any of our elected officials want to infringe on our rights in this matter?
Our nation's Bill of Rights included this most important of all rights, to self-defense.
Alexander Hamilton wrote in papers leading up to the Continental Congress the need for a federal army, military est,,ie "militia".
is a matter of utmost importance that a well digested plan should as soon as possible be adopted for the proper establishment of the militia. ...the government ought particularly to be directed to the formation of a select corps of moderate size...fit it for service in case of need."
Yet he concludes:
; but if circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude, that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people, while there is a large body of citizens little if at all inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow citizens. This appears to me the only substitute that can be devised for a standing army, the best possible security against it, if it should exist."
Alexander Hamilton, Jan 9 1788
That is the value of the Bill of Rights, 2nd Amemdent, it is as real right today, same as 200 years ago. . The purpose is to insure the right of the people to have Arms to protect theirs and their fellow citizen's life, freedom, rights, and property from a powerful federal state authority.
II AMENDMENT (2nd Amendment) To the Bill Of Rights
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State; the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
Still harping on Bush. I guess that's because you got nothing good to say about the current idiot?
Let it go...and become concerned about what's happening NOW.
Oh yeah, I guess that doesn't fit the agenda, eh? hahaha
Ralph, I may be missing your point, but what exactly is your point in regards to the 14th Amendment? Are you speaking about Clause 3?
Ricks, I support the 14th amendment wholeheartedly, but, as I think I know where you are going with this discussion, I am sick that the government won't protect it's borders thereby allowing "anchor babies" to be born here thereby, supposedly, making the parents citizens also.
Obama is a compromiser, not a skilled negotiator, and it shows every time he goes against Bohner. He holds all the cards in the Fiscal Ditch, yet is giving away Social Security Insurance that we earned.
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State.."
How many AR15 owners belong to a well regulated militia? The AR15 was used by non-veterans in three of the recent tragedies, including the last one.
An oppressive govt will not be stopped by small arms. Computer hackers are the only ones with a chance to defend us from oppressive government.
You could be watched by a govt drone right now, and not even know it.
I will gladly hand over all of my high capacity magazines (the ones the media is calling "clips") and rifles. ("assault rifles" if you prefer)As soon as the last bad guy hands his in.
By "bad guy", Ed, do you mean robbers? They seem to prefer handguns, don't they? How about gang bangers? They prefer to shoot each other.
"An oppressive govt will not be stopped by small arms. Computer hackers are the only ones with a chance to defend us from oppressive government.
Tell that to the Syrian freedom fighters, anyone who things no one but government forces should have powerful weapons would have to be behind the Syrian government's fight to stop the rebels with what ever means they have at hand.
Well,John,you ask why anyone would feel the need for a gun.
Well,lets see.Crooks have knives,guns,bombs and bricks.They have no love of life or God or anything else.They want to steal,kill and hurt people.
They are loose everywhere.
I am sitting here in the house,cant run,cant fight,but I am supposed to just sit and be defensless while a crook comes in and does his thing.Be it kill,rob or whatever.Because it is wrong for me ,a American,to have a gun according to some people.I am supposed to dial 911,answer 13 questions,such as "where are you? Is the crook in the house? have you offered him some coffee maby he will just wound you".
We will get a enforcement officer out there to help fill out a report in about 20 minutes as they are all a monthly meeting up here at the courthouse.
Or I could buy a gun and have it handy to at least scare the dude or sadly choose to take his life as a last resort to save my own.
Ralph, It's sounding like your becomming just as brain damaged as Nancy Polosi with your predictable bildge. It must be something being put into the water supply in Los angeles and San Francisco that twists peoples brains into being Progressives and makes them want to stick their finger in America's eye! As far as I am concerned Progressivism is a social disease being forced on American values and freedoms by nonsensical Warm and Fuzzy espousing fools. In my opinion This push to transform America into a Progressive State is no different then radical Islamists wanting to force every human on the planet to accept sharia law or die.
If you don't share my crackpot notions, you hate America. Everybody who disagrees with me should die or get out, then everything will be perfect.
Steve, Id say the gentleman with the stick represents Progressivism and the gentleman on the ground represents American. :-)
Obviously Steve's pic graphically illustrates the need for Walking Stick Control. Now!
Seriously - that's Charles Sumner being beaten in Congress back in the 1850s, isn't it?
The 14th ammendment makes perfect sense if our borders were kept secure, which from what i hear is kind of an important job....
Guns are part of American culture, its a hobby just like cars, clocks, fishing, hiking, and everyother hobby i cant think of. and when people say guns kill inoccent children, thats a reflection upon me and everyother gunowner in America,
to put it in context, how many car accidents a year kill kindgarten children? well then certainly we must ban cars because if you drive one you will kill inoccent people and has nothing to do with the fact that you are unfit to drive. because personal accountability is just nonsense!
Nice personal attack, Jay. Again, where's your defense of the 14 Amendment, allowing anchor babies, if you're such a strict Constitutionalist?
Actually, we have our own water supply, Old Pirate Water Co, serving 13 houses. How about you?
We in northern Orange County have our longtime playboy RepubliCON CONgressman who does nothing but take money from the richest lobbies, including the ex-con former lobbyist Jack Abramoff, and votes their way.
In my country they do most of their killing with screwdrivers and sharpened sticks.
Jay i think that is how many of us Americans feel,
Anchor babies are not always born to illegal aliens, but maybe more often to green card holders.
Who benefits from illegal immigration? The rich. That's why it won't be stopped.
Who is hurt by illegal immigration? The lower and middle class Americans who don't hire them, but have to pay for their emergency medical care, depressed wages, and other costs.
Far more illegals have been deported under Obama than under Bush. It's mostly criminals that are deported. That reduces our prison populations, but has the nasty side effect of making the host countries largely lawless.
We should revise the 14th Amendment to stop anchor babies. Our older son was born in West Germany, but was not given even a choice of German citizenship, as he wasn't born to German parents.
Being against one part of the Constitution does not make you unpatriotic.
Ralph, Sorry poor choice of words on my part. I should have found a softer way of putting my thoughts on paper and holding off hitting send in favor of a more diplomatic response on my part.
Geez Ralph if it wasn't for you Id have no one to joust with here!
Steve, good point. Rick, you pass history for today.
Noel, "Here in central South Dakota, many coyote hunters use AR-15 style rifles to hunt the wiley coyotes, that often come in 2 or 3 at a time to a call. A number of my friends have accurized their "assault rifles" to shoot prairie dogs and other varmints, as well as to target shoot."
Been there done that, can't argue your point. And these are animals that can cost a rancher a lot of money. I don't know about the hogs down south but you're describing one of the few places where an AR-15 style rifle is an advantage.
Where a hunter would use a specific style of rifle isn't the issue. The issue is keeping the crazies from getting any kind of firearms and using them to kill people.
I whole heartedly agree with you Mike, these kinds of guns need to be kept out of the hands of crazy people.
we need to do a better job of taking care of people with mental problems, and making sure that firearms dont get into the hands of evil. Not punish society as a whole, when the gunlaws arent the problem in the first place.
this eveil man in CT shot his mother and stole her guns after trying to buy the guns himself and was denied.
I have an 'AR', an Armalite AR-7. (google it, if you don't know what one is). It has all the characteristics of a (so called) 'Assault Rifle', even though it's only a .22 cal USAF survival rifle, purposely built to shoot small game to eat by a pilot whose been forced to bail out and survive. Since an AR-15 is a .223 cal and mine is a .220 cal, I have no reason to believe it it won't fall under the category of a 'restricted weapon'. I can do far more damage with an M-1911 than I can with a .22 but that was the point of the AR-7 in the first place. Shooting a Rabbit with a .45 doesn't leave much to eat.
I have found as a rule, that any body that talks down fire arms, have never been around, or used a gun for anything in most cases, or all their life, there mom told them, they kill people, as one has stated.
It befuddles me that a police officer, retired or not, that has taken the same oath that I have to defend our constitution, against enemys, foreign, or Domestic, would some how think that parts of the constitution could be changed. I take my Oath Very, Very, Seriously!!!!
This is NOT about what kind of weapons should, or should not be available!
Guys this is about Power, and Control of the Population! History repeats its self.
We all should know better, I am afraid before its all done, it will be 1776 all over again!!!
As in all of history, the Government just keeps eating away at something, until it is gone.
This article was written over 2 years ago by a guy who has spent his career studying violence and training police on how to react. He is not just another opportunist using a tragedy to push an agenda.
In the past 60+ years, every mass shooting in the USA except for one has occurred in a "gun free zone".
There's critters in the back acreage here that will eat you if given the chance. We have coyotes, wild dogs, ferrel pigs, hogs and cougars. Not to mention rattle snakes the size of a fire hose. I don't go out to the barn at night without a sidearm. Am I supposed to call a deputy sheriff to escort me to the barn when I leave the lights on of need something from the barn after dark? On a good day, they're 30 minutes away and it's a long distance call.
You city slickers have no idea what it's like in the wild and in this part of the country, there's hundreds of square miles of "wild".
I cannot believe people criticizing the President's heart felt address at Newtown......just can't.......
Who is Time magazines "Person of the Year" just announced?
That article derek posted is a great read, and has a lot of sense to it, not only on the real problem how to prevent it, and how little we do to prevent it.
Craig, I have no idea what was in his head, but I do know what his agenda is, and none of it has to do with my well fair, or Freedom.
Derek, Excellent, everything is exactly as he said. Thank You!!
I cannot believe the President didn't have a well worn dog eared copy of Saul Alinsky's Rules For Radicals in his breast pocket at Newtown......I just can't.....
McVeigh killed 168 people with fertilizer. People blamed McVeigh. Islamist fanatics killed almost 3,000 people with airplanes. People blamed the fanatics. Lanza killed 26 people with firearms (28 if you include his mother and him). People are blaming the firearms. Huh?
Hard for me to respect the opinions of people who use the constitution of the United States to justify their selfish desire to keep weapons that have caused so much grief and heartache.
I've spent a major portion of my life in public service, as a police officer, and before that as an enlisted man, then officer of the United States Army. I'm Airborne and Ranger qualified, and have taken the oath to protect and defend the the People of the United States, and uphold the constitution (damn, sounds like a hell of a pedigree, but won't buy me a fancy coffee in town) of the United States.
I fail to see where owning a weapon capable of killing many in a short period of time (this is where many of claim their 2nd amendment rights) trumps the 20 children and 7 adults right to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, because that sure as hell is what happened.
Lastly, if you are saying you need weapons to protect you from the government, meaning you might use those weapons against those (like me in my past) enforcing the laws of THE DULY ELECTED GOVERNMENT, just because you don't like who was elected, then you need to surrender your weapons. That is sedition. Treason is conspiring against the government, the government of the people, but of course when you pick and choose the parts of the constitution you wish to as fit your needs, then it really doesn't make a lot of difference what anyone else believes, does it?
Ken, I've seen rattlers, but certainly not as big as a fire hose. Course, everything's bigger in Texas.
Yup, that is a Question Rob, darned if I know where your common sense went either. The liberals, are what have our schools screwed up in the first place! When God was in our schools, this didn't happen. I have had guns at school all the time in high school, and so did some teachers.
The stupid stuff liberals come up with, and nobody learns any thing, and from that some kids don't have a lick of respect, for any thing, or any body. That sure don't change when they hit 25.
Gang violence is always figured into all shooting, to make it look like more.
Hard for me to respect the opinions of people who use the constitution of the United States to justify their selfish desire to keep weapons that have caused so much grief and heartache."END QUOTE"
You IGNORANT %#*^$@#@!!%^**(%#@#, There are millons of honorable Men, and Women that died, and Maimed, to keep this country Free, and then #$^*(^$%#@@%&()^$ guys like you spit in there face, all the way back to 1776, and before.RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!
As they say, Freedom is not Free, and then the liberals want to give it away.
When I was a kid you could take 'daddy's' WW2 M-1 Garand 'assault weapon' to school for 'show & tell' and nobody managed to get killed with it.
It has nothing to do with the guns and everything to do with the people behind them.
I'm with the babbitt guy.
Ive talked to many people who came to school with there rifles and shotguns, gave them to the teacher and went hunting after school, or had gone hunting before school.
nobody seemed to get shot then.
When has banning or prohibiting something in this country ever stopped it's use?
Most of us are descended from people who fled to this country to avoid the governments or conditions in the old country and wanted to be able to live and do what they wanted in a "free" country. It is in our genes to do what we want to do and not what the government tells us to do.
He thought he was in a gun free zone...from Wikipedia:
New Life Church shooting
New Life Church shooting
Location Colorado Springs, Colorado, United States
Date Sunday, December 9, 2007
Approximately 13:00 MST (UTC-7)
Target New Life Church
Attack type Shooting spree
Weapon(s) 1 Bushmaster XM15 .223-caliber rifle, 1 Beretta .40-caliber handgun, 1 Springfield Armory 9mm pistol
Deaths 3 (including the perpetrator)
Perpetrator Matthew J. Murray
On Sunday, December 9, 2007, at about 1 p.m. Murray, armed with a semi-automatic rifle and two pistols, entered the foyer of the New Life Church in Colorado Springs and fatally shot two and wounded three others before himself being shot and wounded by Jeanne Assam, a former sworn Minneapolis police officer and a church member acting as security. Murray then took his own life.
Church shooting victims
1. Stephanie Works, age 18, killed
2. Rachel Works, age 16, killed
3. David Works, age 51, wounded
4. Judy Purcell, age 40, wounded
5. Larry Bourbonnais, age 59, wounded
At about 1 p.m. MST (20:00 UTC), 30 minutes after the 11 a.m. service had ended at New Life Church, Murray opened fire in the church parking lot shooting the Works family and Judy Purcell, 40. Murray then entered the building's main foyer where he shot Larry Bourbonnais, 59, hitting him in the forearm. At this point, Assam opened fire on Murray with her personally owned concealed weapon. Police say that after suffering multiple hits from Assam's gun, Murray fatally shot himself.
Assam later stated that "God guided me and protected me [and I] did not think for a minute to run away."
The pastor of the church stated that Assam shot Murray before he entered 50 feet (15 m) inside the building, after she encountered him in the hallway, and that Assam probably saved "over 100 lives."
Following the shooting spree, Colorado Springs Police Department officers searched the church campus looking for suspicious devices. Colorado governor Bill Ritter ordered state authorities to help investigate. The FBI and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives also came to the site to assist.
At this has what to do with Henry Ford?
p.s. I'm with you Rob.
did you know that 17 public and school shooting took place during the assault weapons ban from 94-04?
and did you know that armed robbery went up 40 percent when the UK banned guns?
By Dave Hjortnaes, Men Falls, WI on Wednesday, December 19, 2012 - 07:03 pm:
At this has what to do with Henry Ford?
p.s. I'm with you Rob."END QUOTE"
Go have the neighbor kid explain to you what Off Topic Means!
Gee, where do I begin?
I'll start with Ralph. I think I must agree with you on 'anchor' babies.
Rob, sorry to hear you have no respect for me. You probably don't care, but for what it's worth, I do still respect you. Don't agree with you, but still respect you.
Herm, I know where you are coming from and don't disagree, but I also don't pay much attention to "The sky is falling" theories. I don't believe Obama is going to get his hands on my guns any more than I believe global warming caused by cow farts is going to melt the polar ice caps and drown 2/3 of the people on earth. Would Obama like to get his hands on my guns? I'm sure he would, but I don't believe he will. There's just too much for him to overcome to be able to pull it off. Will they bring back the Brady Bill? Yeah, probably. I don't mean to take this threat lightly. I just believe it is a knee-jerk reaction, based on emotion, and don't think it will result in the Gestapo busting down my door and confiscating my weapons.
Now, for the "Assault Weapon" thing.....An AR-15 is NOT an assault weapon. An M-16 is an assault weapon. An AR-15 is a semi-automatic copy. Now, I know a guy with an M-16. Totally legal. He passed his FBI background check and paid his tax stamp and bought it legally. I've got no problem with that.
I get tired of hearing "Why do you NEED" an assault weapon. Hell, I don't NEED an assault weapon. I just WANT it. We don't NEED anything but food, clothing and shelter. I WANTED my AR-15 because it is fun to shoot. I've owned it for decades. Got it long before I ever heard the term "Assault weapon". Now anything that is semi-automatic or has a magazine capacity of more than 5 is dubbed an "assault weapon". Hell, I've even heard people call them "Weapons of mass destruction." Come on! Let's save that one for nuclear, biological and chemical weapons.
The Federalist Papers defined the Militia as every able-bodied male above some given age. Say 15-18. Don't remember exactly. So yes, most of us qualify as the Militia. If "Militia" meant some organized group like the National Guard, the Second Amendment would not have used the terminology "The right of the people" as it did in the 1st and 4th Amendments. Is it only the National Guard who has the right to free speech and freedom from unreasonable search and seizure?
Thanks Hal, Herm.
I have yet to read or hear a legit or reasonable response to the question of what is appropriate for a person to do for self defense if they cant have a gun.All I hear is take away the guns.With no alternative laid out but to die at the hands of the crooks who dont respect the law anyhow.
Unless you live near the police station or donut shop you are due to wait at least 3 minutes or longer before law men can even get a chance to respond to your 911 call.You and alot of others can be hurt or killed in that length of time.In my particular case,usally it is about a 10 to 20 minute wait for the law or medic,and the fire department is within walking distance of the house.
And another thing.
I think someone said the crooks like hand guns.Well duh,how can you sneek around to rob someone toteing a big rifle?
But if you have a rifle with a large clip,and he the crook comes in with his easy to hide hand gun,he will run out of bullets before you.Giveing you the edge.
Why does a citizen need a large clip? Well let's see.The law man gets training in regards to how to react and handle himself in stressfull situations.A citizen is scared and nervous.Therefore his grouping of shots may not be effective.Thus if he has 5 bullets,he may not get but 1 good shot out of it.Where as if he has 15 or more,well,that is more chances of doing the job.
Owning a gun is PART of what is nessasary to feel safe and protected from harm in a Godless world.
Well this has certainly come to the edge of ridiculous, and I'm thinking too many have already jumped. But no one can say this group isn't capable of beating a dead horse into submission. It's beyond complicated, it's beyond important, it's beyond interesting. It's become repetitive and tiresome. But I can't quit reading it and getting pissed off. I can't believe anyone actually thinks firearms and ammunition can be responsible for killing people. I'm getting to where I'm scared of driving passed the local sporting goods store at night. Can you imagine how damned scary it's got to be inside that building with everyone of those guns and all that ammunition sitting on those shelves just hoping the wrong guy walks in the door. There all sitting there talking to each other (hey if they're capable of killing they can talk too) when one pipes up and says, " I'm going to kill the next left-handed red haired guy through the door"! Or do you suppose a gun that thinks that way might be the ring leader that's talking all the other guns into going over to the closest school and...
"All I hear is take away the guns." If that's all you hear you're listening in the wrong places. People who advocate that are a tiny minority. So are the ones who say everybody should have unlimited access to every kind of weapon. Most rational people think a homicidal lunatic shouldn't be able to get his hands on a weapon that shoots scores of Teflon-coated cop-killer bullets into dozens of people in a few seconds.
"McVeigh killed 168 people with fertilizer. People blamed McVeigh. Islamist fanatics killed almost 3,000 people with airplanes. People blamed the fanatics. Lanza killed 26 people with firearms (28 if you include his mother and him). People are blaming the firearms. Huh?"
Using fertilizer and airplanes for killing is extremely rare. More than 50 people are killed every day in the US with guns, as that's what they're designed to do.
Yes, my late Mama said guns are only for killing. I went deer hunting with my Dad and an older brother at ten years of age. I found I didn't have much appetite for killing.
The dumbest thing I ever did with a gun was buy one in Mexico City when I was a college student there. I was headed for hitch hiking holiday with two other guys and two girls, and bought it to protect the girls. It was a starting revolver with the barrel bored out for a .22. I tested it on Isla Mujeres, and it worked. I carried it in my pants pocket.
If the cops had bothered to search me when I and the two guys were thrown in jail briefly, I might still be in jail there in Merida, Yucatan, or more likely dead. It was so long ago, the jail is now a museum..
Nobody has actually said it, but all I've read and heard in the last week is starting to sound like this in my head. Well we can't fix the crazies because we don't know how. We give them medicine but it don't work. All people who take that kind of medicine are crazy. Hey,let's stop soft peddling it because when we say they're mentally ill it doesn't really describe it. Lets call all the mentally ill what they really are, homicidal lunatics. After all, if there is such a thing as a person who really is mentally ill and not homicidal, he won't be offended anyway. Crazies, homicidal maniacs, nut jobs, basket weavers, and on and on. I don't promote political correctness but sometimes some bullshit can strike close to home. And I'm not talking about this thread or this forum exclusively because as I said I've had this crap shoved down my throat this week from every direction. I used to tell people I can go out and get a gun and just start shooting and get away with it "because I'm a Viet Nam Veteran, hell I'm nut's." All Viet Nam veterans are nut's. But then things really started to fall apart in my life and I went to the VA and talked to a guy one day. He asked me if I had PTSD. And of course I said no. Then things got worse in my life and a different guy asked me the same question and I told him I don't know. So then He asked me some questions that seemed pretty simple but yet descriptive of some behavioral things. And then he gave me some questions written on a piece of paper. After answering those I was interviewed by another guy and a lady. And then they assigned me to a psychology practitioner. And they started giving me the same kind of medicine they give crazy people. And told me the reason I was having problems with shitty dreams and became emotional at weird things and not sleeping and telling anyone in authority to go to hell and being uncomfortable in crowds and always stopping just inside doors after entering before going into the rest of the room in order to be comfortable was because I had PTSD. So now every three months they ask me if I've ever felt like hurting myself or anyone else and I tell them no. And they ask me a lot of other questions and they check my meds and I go home and now I can honestly tell every one; "I'm a Viet Nam veteran, hell I'm nuts"
I don't see how coyete's or hogs could get yet with a 30:30 lever action and a judge on your hip. In La. The hogs are not near as ferocious as to warrant the need of an assault rife.
Whether y'all like it or not the assault rifles and high cap magazine pistols will soon be off the shelves at the usual retail stores.
I really liked Rob Heyen's posts.
The election of a half-breed as Prez has been tremendous for gun and ammo sales, the AR-15 being by far the biggest seller. Yeah, pushed far enough by mass murders, he will try to take your assault weapons and their accessories. It was reported last week: witnesses recently saw an AR-15 RPG attachment bought by a young Latino at a gun show in New England. Is he gonna' hunt deer with an RPG?
The rightwing nutjob survivalist who killed those Sikhs last summer was pure stupid. Sikhism could have been the basis for our own Constitution. Formed in the 1500s in opposition to the Hindu caste system, it declares all people, including women, equal. Their main foibles are not cutting hair, and wearing turbans, although many are giving those up, so as not to be such easy targets.
It will take a while to get the law changed and in that length of time there will be plenty of guns bought and sold.May go shopping my self you never know.I am getting concerned as there seems to be no concern for the safety of handicapped people or the aged.Left with the option of defending themselves with a cell phone and a prayer as they shouldnt have more than 6 chances to save their own life.
Steve,I eat breakfast at a local grill and sadly some liberals eat there.I have to listen to their babbleing about all the bullets and guns should be gathered from all homes and distroyed for the sake of safety.I guess they want police to carry billy sticks and get shot at by the non law abideing crooks.
The presidents ethnic background has nothing to do with his abilty or inablity to fill the postion.I am frankly tired of that being brought up.It keeps the racial contraversy alive which is irrelavant to solving the real problem of idiots amoung us
If you own a liquor store in southauckland it would be good to own a gatling gun, Might repel the repeat "customers" who come to make a cash withdrawal each week. "Same customers" i hear.
The only relevance the president's ethnicity has to anything is that if he had made a run at the presidency with the same weak credentials, lack of experience and no achievements to his credit, and was white, Hillary Clinton would be president now. I'm no fan of either of the Clintons, but we'd at least be in much better shape than we are today. (Wow! Never thought I'd say that!)
Gotta love photoshop....
I was not a reader of Time magazine anyhow but
You could find a homeless veteran on the streets that has done more positive works for America that he has.
Why do we have homeless veterans, Mack?
Maybe because Johnson started a little war, and Bush started two illegal wars of aggression, and there are many thousands of veterans with PTSD and TBI, Traumatic Brain Injury?
Because we are to busy trying house illegal immigrants and non working, non tax paying, people.
There should be no homeless veterans.Period.
O'BUMMER, but he's not Irish.
When Teddy Kennedy ran against Ed McCormick in the 1962 Senate primary in Massachusetts, they debated. McCormick actually had some experience, but all Teddy had was that he had been an assistant district attorney in Middlesex County (plus the fact that he was a Kennedy). In the debate, McCormick said, "If your name were Edward Moore instead of Edward Moore Kennedy, your candidacy would be a joke." (To boot, Teddy was only 29, but was eligible to run because he would still be 29 at election time, but would be 30 by the time he was sworn in.)
Hillary could have said to Obama, "If you were white instead of (half) black, your candidacy would be a joke." Obama was elected by white liberal guilt.
Obama was elected by the Republican nominating process.
I hate to bring this topic back up, but it seems the media has been falsely reporting the CT shooting. No AR-15 or "assault rifle" of any kind was used in the incident.
looks like that aired on the 15th. either way it doesnt matter. the media is going to use whatever they can to push their agenda.
on top of all this theres some kind of world wide disarm treaty that the UN and Hillary clinton is trying to get through. then you throw in a falling apart government and welcome to pre civilwar america!
There was a news item tonight about people lining up for a gun buy-back. I think it was in Californicated some where--Probably LA. The reporter said it was to "get guns off the streets". Apparently, the streets are littered with guns out there. You would think the littering laws would keep that from happening.
All that did was remove the guns from law abiding citizens. I doubt there were any gang members turning in their guns.
I saw the same thing, you traded in your guns for a $50 gift card.
yes they were urging people to get there guns of the street.??????
No,that is what you do with the cheap @-- saterday night special you robbed the bank with last week.And that old cheap 22 rifle that rattles so bad you cant shoot it.
And you can bet if somebody brings in a gun of value,it gets swapped in the inventory room for a cheapy.
I know there is some purty mountains and beachs and hot sexy blondes in California but I honestly dont see what the draw is to live there.Maby camp out for a week once a year.
I live here, i agree, btw there arent very many blondes here. it sucks. not many good women around here either, unless you like clubbing! which really sucks being 20 years old.