Removing Gas Cap ??

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Removing Gas Cap ??
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Cassara Long Island, NY on Wednesday, December 19, 2012 - 07:41 am:

I picked up an oval tank from e-bay. The cap is seized in the neck. It appears that the neck is attached to the tank using a gasket or some kind of dope. Is this correct? Can I apply a bit of heat to the cap? Ideas?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jeff V on Wednesday, December 19, 2012 - 08:53 am:

I try not to apply heat to things that might have gasoline residue. Generally when I have this problem, grabbing it with pliers or tapping on it with a hammer and screwdriver loosens it up.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By keith g barrier on Wednesday, December 19, 2012 - 09:02 am:

If it is the potmetal cap it has probably swelled and you will have to destroy it to remove it. As Jeff says try the pliers first with a good penetrating oil. KB


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Cassara Long Island, NY on Wednesday, December 19, 2012 - 09:03 am:

Jeff nice truck, profile picture. I am concerned about the seal with heat ?? I received the tank yesterday so I have not had a chance to play with it. Saturday I will get into it a bit.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ROBERT BERGSTADT on Wednesday, December 19, 2012 - 09:05 am:

No heat, Big explosion, never heat on used gas cap, break it out and replace with new one, Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, December 19, 2012 - 09:31 am:

I agree, NOT heat. Two of my uncles were seriously damaged welding on "empty" tanks. Bob is right. $7 for a new cap is cheap explosion insurance.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Wednesday, December 19, 2012 - 09:41 am:

Wasn't many original gas caps made of pot metal ? => many are swelled and distorted nowadays :-(


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Wednesday, December 19, 2012 - 10:03 am:

Had a friend try to repair a weeping motorcycle tank. After repeated rinseings with soap & water he gave it a shot. There were 5 of us there at the time. He brought the flame to the tank and it literally disappeared. We saw it fly into the air, it had burst open, and was coming down like an open bear trap from hell. Must have gone 100 feet straight up. Luckily, no injuries but never again brother!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joseph Magedanz on Wednesday, December 19, 2012 - 11:08 am:

Please don't use this cleaning method once you do get the cap off:

posted on the Forum by Scott Kramer on Saturday, July 09, 2011 - 03:21 pm:

Steve,
I have a friend who has owned his Model A coupe for over 40 years.The car had been stored in his garage for some time with out being run & the gas tank was empty.He looked into the tank & saw all the crud in the bottom & decided to remove it, so he could start driving the car again.
To make a long story short, he borrowed his wife's vacuum cleaner (the long cylinder type that lays flat on the ground) & proceeded to vacuum out the gas tank. All was going well until he thought he could hear a jet engine running. He looked at the exhaust end of the vacuum & it had about a 3 foot flame coming out of it. After turning the vacuum off, he saw all this black material around the exhaust end. It took 2 hours to clean up the mess, & his wife never did find out what happened.
Scott


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Nathan Bright on Wednesday, December 19, 2012 - 01:36 pm:

i had to bust mine out too! threads were fine afterwards. just used a wire brush on em :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Wednesday, December 19, 2012 - 03:23 pm:

I once tried to weld a gas tank. I filled it with water but could not get it hot enough to weld, then I poured out the water. This tank had been empty for a long time, then filled with water, then dumped out. I was fortunate. The tank went BOOM! and jumped about a foot. But I was not injured. I was very surprised at how long the gas remains in the tank even if it has been washed out.

Don't apply heat to a gas tank!
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Wednesday, December 19, 2012 - 06:39 pm:

Heat and gas tanks work about as well together as the Vatican and Planned Parenthood. PLEASE, do not apply heat to that thing!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Hjortnaes, Men Falls, WI on Wednesday, December 19, 2012 - 06:43 pm:

If you filled it with alcohol first to get out the gas and then filled it with water to get out the alcohol, it would probably be OK to use heat. Water and gas don't mix, but the alcohol and gas will.

This is in case you have no other options.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Wolf on Wednesday, December 19, 2012 - 06:45 pm:

A friend repairs gas tanks. He puts a steam cleaner nozzle in the tank for a long(don't know how long)time and then welds the tank. No problems.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Wednesday, December 19, 2012 - 07:02 pm:

This should come under the heading of "believe it or not". But, the fact is, steel is not solid. Gasoline (and oil) have enough penetrating ability to soak a short distance into the surface of the steel. Without some sort of pressure to force it out of the steel, the tank can remain empty for decades and a lot more molecules of gasoline will remain embedded than you would likely believe. You cannot smell it. It can be rusty all over. But when you apply enough heat to raise the temperature over a couple hundred degrees, both the steel and gasoline molecules become very excited (that is the correct term in physics). The gasoline molecules start looking for someplace to go, and the steel molecules begin to expand and therefore push. The gasoline molecules are already not in a liquid form, when they hit the air they are ready and raring to go. There are many millions of these molecules suddenly in an oxygen rich environment. Any sort of spark or flame in the wrong place will ignite this mix. Over about 600 degrees (soldering temps), flame may not even be needed.

Best shot to remove a stuck gasoline cap.
Soak the threads with your best choice of penetrating oil for about an hour.
Have a friend come over (no drinking).
Grab hold of the cap as best you can with the best fitting pliers or gripper you have for it.
While one uses both hands trying to turn the cap as best they can, the other use a hammer and punch to try to turn the cap by aiming the punch in the proper direction and hitting lightly. Be very careful about fingers! Lots of opportunities here to mash or cut them and I have scars to prove it. The combination of directional pressure and vibration is the trick.
IF a cap can be gotten loose easily, that will do it. If not, and there is not something special that makes the cap (or maybe tank) difficult to replace, I would use a drill to remove one or the other in hundreds of little pieces.
Drive carefully, and do enjoy the holidays! W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Danial - Veneta OR US Earth Solar System on Wednesday, December 19, 2012 - 08:17 pm:

Wayne, I was with you right up until the "no drinking" part and then you list. hahaha


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Danial - Veneta OR US Earth Solar System on Wednesday, December 19, 2012 - 11:37 pm:

Good grief...I must have been drinking at work today and didn't know it.

I meant to write, "Wayne, I was with you right up until the "no drinking" part and then you lost me."


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matthew David Maiers on Wednesday, December 19, 2012 - 11:44 pm:

yeah the whole no drinking part threw me for a loop....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Thursday, December 20, 2012 - 12:03 am:

I really don't know why I felt the need to put that part in. Just a little off today, I guess. Too many things on my mind.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Danial - Veneta OR US Earth Solar System on Thursday, December 20, 2012 - 12:29 am:

grin....good evening, Wayne!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison on Thursday, December 20, 2012 - 02:45 am:

Was he serious about not drinking?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Michael Rogers on Thursday, December 20, 2012 - 06:22 am:

Any time you have a gas tank to weld and the fill is open, it can be done safely by running a tube from a lawnmower exhaust into the tank and let it run while you work. This should be done outside where the atmosphere is fresh and the inside of the tank is what gets the carbon monoxide. Without oxygen the fuel residue cannot ignite. I watched a friend from NZ do this to a cadillac tank and a couple of others very successfully.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jeff V on Thursday, December 20, 2012 - 10:07 am:

If you're going to do that (and I'm still thinking that might be a little dubious), let the mower (or other engine) run for a while before trying it. The rule of thumb for purging a vessel is 5 volume exchanges. If your a math nerd, 5 volume exchanges would be 5 x (Volume of the tank) / {RPM x (displacement of the engine)} with the displacement and volume measured in the same units. Or just let it run a while before you start work.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jeff V on Thursday, December 20, 2012 - 10:09 am:

Oh yea, and set up the tank with the fill spout UP if possible, since CO is heavier than air.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By keith g barrier on Thursday, December 20, 2012 - 10:13 am:

I have repaired leaks in many gas tanks, I never use a torch except to heat my old copper irons, with these you have no sparks or flames to worry about. Just get it clean with a good flux. You can make your own flux by feeding zinc to muriatic acid. Just be careful and if uncertain take it to a pro. KB


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Thursday, December 20, 2012 - 11:22 am:

I bought a NOS gastank at Chickasha a few years back, which had the original 25-27 gas cap in it. The cap had to be destroyed to get it out. I have since found a good original cap that has not expanded, and am using it now. Don Lang sells a perfect reproduction of that cap.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Cassara Long Island, NY on Thursday, December 20, 2012 - 11:30 am:

WOW thanks for all the reply's and concerns for safety. I will let you all know how I make out over the weekend. I'm hoping to find a relatively clean tank once I get the cap off.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Thursday, December 20, 2012 - 03:10 pm:

I was only being "semi-serious". Had a lot going through my mind. Just before I wrote that, I was remembering a few incidents where neighbors were working on something and drinking. There have been a few near serious accidents that would not have happened if judgment were not impaired.
The potentially worst for me was when a neighbor and his friends were cutting up the top half of a pine tree that had been taken down days before. We had a good fence and eight foot hedge between us, so I couldn't see anything. Mostly all I could hear was the chain saw (most of the morning). I had gone into our back yard to get something, followed by my then toddler oldest son, when the twenty foot lower half of the pine tree came crashing through our hedge and fence landing about five feet in front of where my son was walking. Through the gaping fence, I could see the beer cans. I never even got an apology from that jerk.
Potentially explosive mixtures and drinking are not a good combination.

However, DO enjoy life.
Drive carefully, and enjoy the holidays! W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Cassara Long Island, NY on Thursday, December 20, 2012 - 03:14 pm:

Wayne your a better man than me. There would have been gun shots ....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Val Soupios on Thursday, December 20, 2012 - 05:26 pm:

The exhaust purge method works as I have seen it done several times and used the method myself once or twice. As long as the tank is full of carbon monoxide it is safe to use a torch on the tank. Notwithstanding, I still prefer a good copper soldering iron for repairing gas tanks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Thursday, December 20, 2012 - 09:19 pm:

John C,
It is probably a good thing that I never really got into guns. I do, however, strongly support the second amendment.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Cassara Long Island, NY on Thursday, December 20, 2012 - 09:22 pm:

Wayne a face book post....

I will use my 1st amendment right to defend my second amendment right. Hopefully I will never need to use my second amendment right to defend my first!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Christopher Lang ~ Brentwood Bay, BC on Thursday, December 20, 2012 - 09:47 pm:

Carbon monoxide is very flammable. You want the carbon dioxin from the exhaust in the tank.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George_Cherry Hill NJ on Thursday, December 20, 2012 - 10:15 pm:

I tried welding a gas tank.....once!

Was in a rice paddy right after monsoon welding concertina to fence posts and a Viet 'helper' comes up to me with a GI gas can with a patch of Swiss cheese rot in it. Then asked me to hit it for him with some stick. I did make sure the cap was open...

I learned 2 things that afternoon...

1- A rusty gas can even though looking dry can launch straight up about 2 stories...

2- Don't weld in rain puddles or rice paddys when your arm can be the ground, or the continuity, don't know which...that's like holding onto a spark plug wire

Thank you very much...I'll now trash them before I patch them :-)

but do be careful. The hot copper iron way sounds lots better..


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Friday, December 21, 2012 - 01:15 am:

John C, I like that a lot. Probably will start saying it.

George of CH, I had to laugh. I knew from my training that an arc welder will not likely kill you, but was still usually very careful. Then one day I had to weld a trailer outside in the rain. Yeah.

I also have several old soldering coppers, including one nice big one. I have used them to repair gasoline tanks. But the truth is, the past two times I have repaired tanks? (I used the torch!) I do know how. I do not like to recommend it for the obvious safety reasons. I have seen film footage of people less careful than I.
Drive carefully, and do enjoy the holidays! W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Friday, December 21, 2012 - 02:46 am:

The exhaust running into a gas tank method is very effective, IF, the engine producing said exhaust is NOT running rich! Don't ask how I learned that little tidbit of info. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Robinson on Friday, December 21, 2012 - 01:20 pm:

add dry ice to the empty tank open at the top. The carbon dioxide being heavy will displace any fumes and is not flamable.


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