Does anyone that has or restored a 19-21 low cowl touring remember if the front seat had any type of ribs to mount the back rest spring on?
It seems like it would have some type of ribs to mount the spring on to me.
I have seen some survivors that have the remains of wood ribs and some that seem to have had nothing at all.
Did it depend on the body maker?
The Touring I am restoring has the metal ribs in the back but has no indication that there was anything in the front.
I have since found out that others have wondered the same thing.
I will probably use 3 wood ribs but just trying to be original as I can.
Any info would be appreciated.
I cannot help you because my 25 has the springs attached to the belt rail with a sheet of cardboard between the springs and the backrest.
Thanks William for responding. That may be the way they did it for the earlier T Tourings.
You would think there would be a clear answer for this since there is so much information on T's on the forum.
But it could be no one knows for sure.
I don't know if this can help you or not. I just went out and looked at my as yet not restored '15 runabout. (Wrong year, wrong body for you but?) There is a wood piece behind the seat riser for the backrest to set into. But there is no sign of slats or boards having been on the sheet metal for the backrest to press against. I don't have original seat cushions for this car so I cannot say whether they were part of the spring set itself.
Drive carefully, and do enjoy the holidays! W2
If you do not get any responses, I can take a picture of my early 21. I did use the wood uprights for the front seat.
I did call Elizabeth at Classtique and she told me that she wasent sure but in her notes on the low cowl tourings she didnt have anything mentioning any wood upright pieces to attach the front backrest seat spring to.
She did remember that on some tourings she would hang a sheet of plastic or maybe cardboard against the body metal.
On the Fordwood website they dont show any upright slats in the front seat section either.
Maybe attaching the front seat spring to the belt rail is the way to go and just put a piece of cardboard behind it and that it.
Thanks for the input.
This is the way my touring was. It had original upholstery etc. The cardboard is fairly heavy. The mouse nest is an added attraction
Great question! Bottom Line Up Front: I believe it depends on who produced the body and in addition when was the body produced as to what was or was not used. [Note Canadian bodies are a little different also – as they continued the wooden 1914 style seat frame in the rear even though they transitioned to the metal seat frame for the front seat. ]
If you check Cubel’s illustrations for their wood kit for the tourings you will see they do NOT show them / list them for the 1913-1927 touring front seat but they do show them for the 1913 – 1927 touring back seat. And if you compare that to the 1913-1927 roadsters you will see that all the roadster front seats have them. And in this case “them” would be the strainer support strip “left” -- part number 7208AX for the front seat roadster and touring 1915-1921 or 7208BX for the 1921-1924 front seat roadster and touring). And from experience we know some of them were wooden and some of them were metal. Which goes back to Fords comment when ordering parts state the body maker so the correct parts will be sent. Ref: http://mtfca.com/encyclo/doc15.htm which states:
JUN 26, 1915 Factory Letter
"Hereafter when ordering body panels for 1915 cars, please give both the car and body numbers. The body number will be found on the right sill just inside the front door. This number will be preceded by a letter which indicates by whom the body was made.
"The above information is necessary as panels for bodies made by our various suppliers vary somewhat."
But while we have some of the body makers and years established for who used wood vs who used metal – we are missing many years and body makers. And I do not know who or when or even “if” some of them left those strainers out on the front seat – so if others can add to that – that would be appreciated also.
It would be great to be able to tabulate which body makers did what style during approximately which times. The reason I say approximate – while the body panes are approximately the same 1915-1921 the amount of wood decreased until 1918 when some but not all of the body makers went back to wooden seat frames and most likely wooden strainers/stringers
I need to run but I will try to post some additional information tomorrow, or if you are in a hurry send me your e-mail address and I will send you 1.3 meg or so Microsoft word document with additional details.
Hap l9l5 cut off
John: ON my 1919 Touring it did not have and ribs or any thing to attach anything except the rib around the top edge of the seat. I did put very thin plywood behind the springs to protect the metal. The rib to attach the seat back material I ordered from Cubel's, the man made strip and it worked great. You start at one end and heat it with a propane torch till it is softened and the form fit it and hold it with clamps till it cools. You have to work with gloves and fairly fast but do not get it to hot, and for safety's sake if you can work out In the middle I made a small steel strip to make the center where the end meet rigid. The black material can be drilled and will accept nails or also tacks for the rear back seat cushions.
Check with Cubel's, call and try and get a direct answer
John, when I removed the original upholstery on my 1920 Touring, this is how it looked. Backrest spring laid loose against back panel w/cardboard panel between. The top of spring was secured with metal tabs bent around spring and screwed into top tack strip. Hope this helps some. Oh, also for what it's worth it's a beaudette mfg body. may vary w/supplier.
One more, picture's worth ..
The resizing 200kb slows me down.
My '20 has a wood board with a ledge the springs rest on and the lower edge of the upholstery is tacked to it. It also had a layer of cardboard between the springs and metal. The upholstery held the springs in place without any additional fasteners. Bill
Many thanks for the responses! The body that I have has a 'B' embossed in the top center directly under the seat spring lip of the rear kick panel.
So that would mean its a Beaudette body.
From the pics of John Sundstroms 1920 Touring Beaudette body it seems that they used cardboard and that was it.
I would think that other body makers did something simliar to keep things simple and cheaper in construction. MHO.
John S, in the pic of the front seat frame detail, is the front top iron bolted directly to the sheet metal panel or is there a spacer or wood between the sheet metal and the top iron.
Thanks for all of the pics, and other information on this as it clears up some things for me and others as that might need it.
The top iron brackets were bolted to lower seat spring support frame. they were bolted with slotted rd head screws w/ square nut on back side, no wood spacer. The wood tack strip for upholstery was notched to clear fasteners. The galv metal strip I believe is to prevent upholstery from going into body cavity.
May have misunderstood your question. The top of top iron is supported with 2 carriage bolts and is bolted through the tack strip and body. Didn't have good original pic but do have one after I installed new strip w/original carriage bolts. New tack strip a little short so I had to cheat a little and add a couple inches to end.
Appreciate the pics. Nice detail and answers some questions.
The rear section on my car had the metal strips but they were not galvinezed. The front didnt have the metal strips and the reason you stated to keep the interior padding in place is probably right. I will add the strips to the front as it can help keep the upholstry in place.
Your car is in better shape to begin with.
Mine had sat in the open for many years and the wood was totally gone. It was minus the engine and rear end and the rest was pretty much there. This forum has really helped in getting things as close as I can to how Ford built it.
The next step will be to buy the seat springs and go from there a step at a time.
My rear seat area also had been exposed. I had to replace the bottom pan with a new one and also replace some bad sub rail wood. I was able
to save the side pieces (seat former) by tacking on some sheet metal from behind so its not so noticeable. I did pop rivet as I didn't want to remove the vertical metal supports from body. I did
use the correct solid rivets on the seat riser so it looks original from the outside.
Here is the front seat in my 21.
Jim E, did your 21 have the metal strip over the back seat section? The front of your car shows the wood strips like some of the ones I had thought I had seen over the years. I bet you could go either way with wood or no wood and still come out OK. Maybe your car is another body maker that used them.
John S, that metal strip over the rear seat section was long gone on my car and I was thinking it would have been a wood slat of some kind to go there.
The car that I have is the remains of a Beaudettte body so maybe it is a metal strip like your car since thats what yours is.
I used pop rivets like you for the rear section rebuild in the floor pan. Much easier and I also braded them down to make a tight fit.
Not original but much easier than using the original style.
You have to look close to notice it but the area is covered over anyway.
I also notice your car has what looks to be small metal angle strips on each side of the body main sills to hold up the rear floor board.
I will add those since mine are long gone.
Appreciate the info everyone.
My car has the metal uprights in the back. I believe the front seat back would be sort of flexible without that additional support of the wood braces.