I need to replace a wooden spoke but can't get the hub apart? Need some help.
the disk on the outer side often gets stuck. try putting a brass drift in one of the bolt holes of the disk and hit it with a hammer to see if you can get it to rotate, this will break the bond of "rust"
Matthew Maiers method is correct. I do it all the time. After you have turned the flange enough you can insert a long punch from the other side and drive the flange off. I then take a number punch and mark each spoke so I after I drive them out with a rubber hammer I can get them back in the correct spot.
Along the same line, can a hub be replaced in a wood spoke wheel with out completely disassembling the entire wheel? I happened to acquire a "set" of four nice wood wheels. The only problem is that I have three rears and one front wheel.
I was thinking that the hub may be quite tight but was wondering if the steel felloe could be heated/expanded some to allow space for the hub to be removed and the replacement hub inserted.
Maybe the trick of heating the felloe would be an option for Joe in replacing a single spoke too. I don't know, I've never worked on a wood wheel.
Getting a single spoke out of a wheel is not too difficult. Getting a single spoke INTO a good wheel is extremely difficult. If you can get a single spoke into an otherwise assembled wheel, you have other very serious issues with that wheel. I believe it was John Regan that came up with a simple to make "spoke press" to assemble wood wheels. There have been quite a number of threads about it. However my computer skills are limited at best. So hopefully someone can find those threads.
One thing to be clear about. Working on the earlier type wood felly wheels is quite different than working on the more common and later steel felly demountable type wheels. Answers also may be quite different.
Drive carefully, and do enjoy the holidays! W2
What are you still doing up?
Rob (off thread )
The center hub will usually just pop out if I whack it with a lead shot filled rubber mallet while holding a piece of wood against the hub cap threads to protect the area from damage. The early wood fellow wheels are what I have done this to the most but the later wood demountable wheels seem to also yield the hubs easily.
I don't think heating a metal fello is a wise choice to make...
here is a link that might be of help to you
hey Joe,the old coupe is doing great.good luck with them spokes.
Boy, 48 spokes sure looks like a LOT MORE on the table that what they look like in place, but they sure do look purty!
why not soak it in antifreeze? like when you want to tighten up a wood handle in an axe or something? haha im only kiddin, but it kinda makes sense.
No joke, soaking in antifreeze would solve many loose spoke problems caused by the spokes drying out. This is common either because the spoke was make with more moisture then the its equilibrium moisture content in use or maybe from relocating the wheel from a humid to a dry environment.
Also about the temperature differences, because of the different thermal coefficient of expansion of wood and steel, a steel felloe wheel that is tight at 30 degrees F will be loose and have about 10 thousands of play at 120 degrees. By just heating the steel felloe about 100 degrees hotter then the wood spokes you can get about 20 thousandth of an inch of extra play in the wheel. This could easily be done in the winter, leave the wheel outside to get cold. Then bring it inside, insulate the wood spokes and add heat (heat gun) to the steel felloe. As if by magic, you have a loose wheel that is easy to work on. Maybe I'll have to try that on the one wheel I need to change the hub on.
I can't understand why anyone would want to even try to put one spoke in at a time, unless you have one of the original wheels that was bevelled not only towards the center but also against each other. Then you can put one spoke back in. Side bar: the wheel maker in Brighton, Colorado makes his spokes that way (its much better and tighter). I rarely run into those types of wheels, but once in a while.
I also don't understand why any one would take the time to make a special press when all you need to do is throw the wheel up in your regular press. Besides the press you can save your self some time by taking an old, bent, rusty, pitted flange and hollow it out and use it when you are pressing your spokes in place. When the spokes are straight you reach down grab the flange and replace with your good flange.
Jim Thode - Hmmmmm,........your last post gives me an idea. Disposing of used anti-freeze safely can be a bit of a problem, and maybe it makes sense to save a quantity of used anti-freeze in perhaps a five gallon can. Could always use it to soak wooden wheels in some sort of a flat pan. No reason the anti=freeze has to be brand new, right? As long as it's ethylene glycol based anyway, right?.....harold
I've always used antifreeze straight from the jug for swelling handles and such. I don't know how used antifreeze mixed with water would work.
I have been wanting to call you and get together since we only are about 15 miles apart. I see where there are a couple other fellows close by too. One in Akron and one in Youngstown so perhaps we could all get together. If I can be of any help with your spoke problem call 440-563-3319
The soaking may still not solve the problem as the spokes tend to wear shorter at the tenon end. When a spoke shrinks it is through the thickness and width not the length. I have seen hickory handles made all my life and if you measure the length of a green handle blank versus a kiln dried they will be the same. The wear at the tenon end can only be made up for by shimming or as another on this forum has done by cutting down longer spokes to get the right length. KB
You are correct the longitudinal shrinkage of wood is normally considered as zero. However it does really have a small amount of change in length due to changes in moisture. The normal range seems to be 0.1 to 0.3%. I did not find hickory but white oak changed from about 0.2% to 0.9% (depending on the specimen) going from green to 20% moisture.
From the beginning of wood wheel use folks have soaked them in the creek or used linseed oil to swell wheels. Of course water just drys out again. The antifreeze trick might help in some cases and it would not dry out.
The other thing to consider is that if all the spokes increased 3% in size perpendicular to the grain due to soaking, them the result would be to increase all then at the hub and in effect reduce the length by a considerable amount.
All these are patch up jobs, it might work in a pinch but the real solution is to replace them with new, hard, dry spokes. If you are stranded in the middle of the Sahara Desert and your wheels were talking to you, maybe some antifreeze would be a fix.
Good info Jim, I remember here at the old handle mills the hickory blank was set up to have the grain parallel to the axe or hammer head if possible. They allowed 1/16th shrinkage of the thickness and 1/8th in the width for a green turned handle. If you did'nt do that the handle would be loose almost as soon as installed. Of course the best way was to kiln dry. You can go to far with the kiln drying though and end up with a handle that would be brittle and no good. The same would go for a spoke. I don't know about the shrinkage for scaley bark hickory as it was not used much years ago because of the gnarly grain that tended to tear out in the turning process. We used to cut only #1 what we call red hickory in 40 inch blocks, sometimes getting only one cut off a tree because of a limb or knot. There was no use hauling it to the mill if it showed a defect as it would be immediately culled. Now days I understand the mills take any and every thing. Did'nt mean to get so long winded, My old neighbor ran a handle mill for years and this has been a subject we have much discussed as we have kicked over the idea of makeing some spokes. KB
Dave, A wheel will not fit in a small press. I have a 20 ton press and a wheel fits fine... That's probably why the folks take time to make the the ingenious "all thread" press.
I have only briefly reviewed this thread...but you say you want to replace a (only one?) spoke.
Is this an academic question or is one spoke damaged? If one is damaged, then you can repair it. There are many means to repair it unless it is totally missing. Please clarify.
Before I made my crude version of JR's spoke press, I used to use a two ton hydraulic jack under my 3/4 ton pickup. I otherwise never had a press quite large enough. I had one wheel a few years ago that lifted the whole back end of my pickup off the ground. I had to move to the front of the truck before the spokes popped into place.
If one spoke is damaged enough to require replacement (I have done this several times), I would recommend taking all the spokes out and press them back in properly as a whole group. I have successfully done it, just one spoke. But it is more trouble than it is worth.
Drive carefully, and do enjoy the holidays! W2