I have it in my head the car was build on Dec 24 1912. Can anyone conform this? Thanks, Bob
The car looks like a 1913 body, obviously the horn is upside down.
The engine casting and serial number indicate a 1913 model year car.
The dash tag also indicates a 1913 model year car.
The engine casting date appears to be 11 9 12 indicating the block was cast on November 9, 1912. Again a solid indication that the serial number and engine are accurate for a 1913 model year car.
From Bruce McCalley's book:
"Factory records show that 157,425 was the first number of fiscal 1913 production and that 348,735 was the last of fiscal 1913. Records also indicate that number 300,000 was built on July 16, 1913, at 1:25 P.M. There are no serial number lists available for 1913, but the daily production figures do exist, beginning with January 1913. The serial numbers here are derived from the first and last numbers, working backwards from 1914." (The fiscal year used was October 1, 1912 through September 30, 1913.)
The book also lists the last number of December 1912 as 183,563.
So, there seems to be a gap, but I'd say your Dec. 24, 1912 sounds about right. Based on what I can see, I'd guess it (the engine number 180,571) to be sometime in late December 1912, but it looks like a positive date is not available.
I seem to recall that the numbering gets kind of screwy around the end of 1912 making it difficult, if not impossible, to come up with a definitive production date. Obviously, based on the casting date, the car was made after November 19, 1912 if that is the original motor but, how long after is a good question. I doubt however that Ford let castings sit around for more than a month before using them so a production date of December 24 might be pushing it.
I'd agree with Royce, and would reply it is a late calendar 12 build.
Have to be careful how to 'date' cars in this cycle as it is after those shipping invoice finds and yet before there were the daily motor build journalsand somehow those 'B' engine numbers went and messed everything up.
Bruce and I use to discuss/debate this era as there is no logical reason for there to have ever been the 'B' issue engines in the first place. According to Ford, all 'B' engines were built at the 'Detroit' factory...but we never quite knew what that meant. Seemingly it was not Highland but was it Henry Ford & Son or some other 'subcontract'? Still don't know the answer.
To me it looked like Ford was bringing engines in from 'wherever' in standard lot batches, and then if production needed a few more for any given day or logistic issue they actually built them probably at Highland and assigned numerical serial numbers picking up where they left off. Were I to believe this, I'd also want to say that the numericals were built in batches also and pulled when needed. But...anyones guess is as good as mine!
All of Bruce work in this era of unknown is a little bit of interpolating on Bruce part and trying to tie knowns to the unknowns. Under one of Bruce scenarios, your engine could have been a Christmas Eve...but in fairness this would also require that Ford was building to allocation of the same amount of cars daily throughout this period. No matter...it's a December of 12 no matter how you look at it.
Your engine is having a 100th birthday!
A footnote on those December numbers: "## Date of sale to dealer"
So the engine assembly date, and the subsequent car assembly date, would be sometime before December 24.
I helped the Old man restore this car in 1964, I guess we got the horn wrong I have never noticed it being wrong.
Bob, They look nice with the bell up but they collect water when it rains. Unless you want to be judged, leave it the way you like it. Our 1913 came out of a barn along with a maroon 1912 Moline Dreadnaught back in the late 1940's and the horns on the T and the Moline were like yours. Ours was an early car and came out of the barn with a red body and black sheet metal. The lamps were solid brass with no iron at all.
Early 1913 T's came in all black, green and black, red and black and blue with black.
If the engine / transmission are original to the car, another actual assembly date will be on the transmission stub shaft. It should be about 6 or 7 days before the car is assembled.
Ken in Texas
It's close enough for me to be called a Christmas T.
I have an early '13 T with a December '12 casting date on the engine. It was restored back in the '50s and the body was painted red with the hood and all other sheet metal painted black. Are you saying that this could have been a factory paint scheme?
Here is how Ford installed the horn in 1913 - 1914:
I thought the next to last picture looked a lot like Sir Harry Lauder, so I googled and found the exact picture, with this caption:
"Famed Scottish singer Harry Lauder in his new Model T, the car, given to him by Henry Ford himself. Photo shot in Los Angeles. Signs in back read Los Angeles Ice Cream, Sutcliff's Real Estate and Bear Drug. Original negative in the files of the Ford Motor Company."
I would love to date that car. Say a nice moonlit drive?
Many years ago, I made the mistake of going into a Salvation Army store simply because I was on that side of town, without any money in my pocket. I found a stack of about a dozen Sir Harry Lauder 78rpm records in beautiful condition! I stashed them behind some other stuff in the old records area and went home. I got some money and returned to the Salvation Army (clear across town, and in San Jose CA that is a ways) and the records were gone!
A couple days later, I went to the local model T club's board meeting. One of the active members comes into the meeting and says to everyone "I just have to tell you what I found the other day! A whole stack of Harry Lauder records in excellent condition-"
That is my personal Harry Lauder story.
Drive carefully, and merry Christmas! W2
Date the car huh?.... never had a date but that car might be too old but it is still a nice car nevertheless.
Oh I don't know, that fellow in the last photo has a fairly nice looking date with him. If a guy could get him to take a hike and have his girl and the car it could make a pretty nice date.
I would date that car. First we would go out to dinner, then ice cream for desert and then go to my garage where I would lock her in.
Geez Mark, that's kind of illegal to lure those gals into some place and lock them in. Isn't that kidnapping. Hell you could go to prison for that.
Wayne, I feel your pain. Here are some of the songs....