1927 Touring side curtains

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: 1927 Touring side curtains
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Seth - Ohio on Sunday, December 23, 2012 - 05:52 pm:

I am in need of side curtains for my '27 Touring. My top is a new brown canvas duck type material (on the car when I bought it) and I would like to find side curtains to match. I believe that the top may have been made and installed by a fellow in central Ohio but I have no facts to support that. Who ever it was did a great job. The tan top color looks good with the dark green body so I thought matching the color and material of the side curtains would look good too. PLEASE...if you have had issues with or a bad experience with a top/side curtain maker do not post it here...send me a private message by clicking on my profile. If you have something positive to share then by all means post it here so we all benefit.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ex trooper on Sunday, December 23, 2012 - 09:15 pm:

http://www.sunbrella.com/showroom/index.php#submit=complexSearch&fs=&color=all&p attern=all&col=all&screen=listing&menu=advAccordionItem&limits=111111&app=001000


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Seth - Ohio on Monday, December 24, 2012 - 07:46 am:

Thank you for the link to the material.
My sewing skill level and lack of an industrial sewing machine prevent me from attempting this myself. If someone knows who makes the correct side curtains for a '27 Touring I would like to get the contact information.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ex trooper on Monday, December 24, 2012 - 08:32 am:

I just happen to really like sunbrella. Used it for years on the boat jobs. Never fades, never wrinkles etc.
On a side note: Ive found its time to liquidate my PFAFF 3/4 horse industrial machine. Its a direct drive constant speed motor with a right foot activated clutch on the tredle pedal. This came from a top and trim shop a few years ago. I cant sew no mo'. The table is about 2 X 4 feet and runs (4 years ago) really nice. Id love to entertain offers on it. It isnt new by a long shot but it is nice and was well cared for. Entertaining offers. troop

[IMG]http://i47.tinypic.com/2je1jyw.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i46.tinypic.com/30iizpy.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i48.tinypic.com/ao2a9c.jpg[/IMG]

Also have a smaller PFAFF for the finer work. Package deal on both. No low ballers please!

[IMG]http://i45.tinypic.com/ddiyh2.jpg[/IMG]


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eubanks, Powell, TN on Monday, December 24, 2012 - 09:40 am:

While we are on 26/7 side curtains. What is the correct hardware fastner for the rear bow where the curtains connect to the top. I have the double common sense type twist fastners that break off when the top is lowered. What was used originally?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By arnie johansen on Monday, December 24, 2012 - 12:25 pm:

Jim:

I cannot say for certain, but I believe that the female fasteners in the rear bow (3 on each side) had a protrusion (or a small round sticking out cylinder) that would sandwich the side curtain between the top material and the rear bow. In other words the three holes in the triangular side curtain with the metal rings around them, would fit over the protrusions in the female fasteners attached to the rear bow.

I have seen a few what appear to be original cars with this female fastener with the "protrusion". I have looked for this fastener for over 5 years and have yet to find them! Perhaps Anzo made them. Sorry that I could not be of any help to you in your search for the fasteners.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By arnie johansen on Monday, December 24, 2012 - 12:44 pm:

Jim:

I did some research and found a posting by John Haynes on June 3, 2012 at 1:51 PM that shows a picture of the fastener, I believe you are searching for. If you find where they can be purchased please send me an email.

Merry Christmas!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ex trooper on Monday, December 24, 2012 - 01:15 pm:

http://www.dotfasteners.com/lift_the_dot.html troop


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ex trooper on Monday, December 24, 2012 - 01:21 pm:

Go to "fasteners" then the bottom choice and page 3 troop

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=3747&familyN ame=Perko+Turn+Snap+Eyelets


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Monday, December 24, 2012 - 01:38 pm:


The Lift-the-Dot fasteners began to be used in July 1926.

They were used on the bow iron to hold the top cover to the bow sides.

Prior to July 1926, the early Improved Car used the recess button on the top iron bow, and a Push Pin type fastener, that gripped into the recess button socket. That socket was always used too on the body side of the Improved Car touring, to hold the side curtains.

Side curtains, on the early '26 used wide grommets to sandwich between the top irons, same as later curtains.






Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By arnie johansen on Monday, December 24, 2012 - 02:32 pm:

Dan:

I looked at the June 1926 Ford Service Bulletin and it stated that the word "Pull" that was stamped on the fasteners was removed. Therefore I would think that the lift the dot fasteners were used prior to June 1926, but perhaps they were stamped with the word "Pull".

I do not want anyone to get the impression that the lift the dot fasteners were not used until June of 1926 on Model T Ford production!

Also it is not clear to me if the lift the dot type fastener was used on the rear part of the side curtain (on a Roadster & Touring) where the three round holes are encased in metal. Do you know if any lift the dot male fasteners were ever installed in the rear top bows?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By arnie johansen on Monday, December 24, 2012 - 02:51 pm:

Dan:

Please look at page 3 of the January 1926 Ford Service Bulletin. It states there that the female fastener T-412123 is used in the open bodies and bow sockets.

I believe these fasteners are like the ones shown between the doors of the improved model touring in your last picture.

Is it correct to assume that only the female fasteners (and not the lift the dot fasteners)were used in the rear top bow?

By the way, I have never been able to find a listing for part number T-41123 in the Ford parts books!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Seth - Ohio on Monday, December 24, 2012 - 04:48 pm:

WOW! I ask a question about where to find a vendor of side curtains and Jim gets all the answers on fasteners.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Tuesday, December 25, 2012 - 12:47 pm:

Arnie

I think the answer is what ever works for your application or what was in the top irons to start with. :-)

My early '26 (Nov '25 mfg) used the female recess sockets in the top bow irons. That is what was there, and I replaced them with these new vendor style fasteners. They fit fine.



The Parts and Price Book (March 15, 1927) lists the body part fasteners for tops, as:
41124X Fastener (flush type) female '26-'27 and 41128X Fastener, (lift and dot) male '26-'27.

That to me means each type were used, when I don't know, but my early '26 had the these flush types.

The earlier pre-26 used the button lift type. The male post with single slot end to fasten, was used in the top iron sides to hold the top edges to the upright iron bow.



On the upper parts of the wood bows, to fit the side curtains, the common sense fasteners were used most times and on the Improved Car too.



While Lift the Dot were used up the stanchions for the side curtains on the Improved Car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By arnie johansen on Tuesday, December 25, 2012 - 01:24 pm:

Dan:

Thank you for your response. I have a few questions with regards to your first photo in the last response.

The push button (male fastener) appears to have a "bump" around the push button part. If one compares it to the earlier post, the male fastener there (the one shown near the Fafnir scale) shows a fastener without a "bump" around the pushbutton. Which is the proper one?

With regard to the female fastener shown in your last post, do you know were I can purchase some exactly like that? The ones I can procure do not have the "protrusion" above the mounting surface to capture the rear part of the rear triangular side curtain.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Tuesday, December 25, 2012 - 02:34 pm:

The flush female type you can get from Langs.

The male flush type part with the button is the repro that Langs sells. The one with the scale along side is a Ford original.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eubanks, Powell, TN on Tuesday, December 25, 2012 - 04:00 pm:

Am I to assume that the twist type fastner was not proper. Its what I have and they break off.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By arnie johansen on Tuesday, December 25, 2012 - 09:09 pm:

Jim:

I do not know the answer to your question! I looked up in Langs catalog and the side curtain mounting set showed the twist type fastener for the 1926/1927 side curtain fasteners. On the other hand I have not seen on what appears to be original vehicles any twist fasteners for the mounting of the rear portion of the triangular rear curtain installed on the rear top bow. Perhaps that is why they break off!

Dan:

I looked up Langs 'flush type female fastener" as you call them and they do not appear to have a lip and protrusion on them like the one in your picture. If you have any spares, I would like to purchase 12 of the female fasteners with a lip/protrusion from you.

If I am looking at the correct number Langs lists it in their catalog as SNAP-R on page 147 of their 2012 catalog, but unfortunately it does not appear to have the lip. They would be fine for between the doors on a touring, but would not allow the sandwich of the rear triangular side curtain between the top iron and the rear part of the top. Thus my interest in purchasing any spares with the lip/protrusion as shown in your picture that you might have.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By arnie johansen on Tuesday, December 25, 2012 - 09:34 pm:

Jim:

I forgot to mention that Langs states in their catalog on Page 147 that the snap R is used on the rear bow (three on each side) which would indicate that the pushbutton type fasteners would be used in the rear portion of the top with the triangular side curtain sandwiched between.

Now please do not ask me why they do not show the pushbutton fasteners in their side curtain mounting kit.

However, I must warn you that the female fastener that Lang sells separately may not look like the one Dan shows in his picture. That is why I have asked Dam if he has any spares. Now you are my competition for those spares! (That is if Dan has any spares and is willing to sell them)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By arnie johansen on Tuesday, December 25, 2012 - 09:43 pm:

Dennis:

Yes, sorry your thread has seemed not to give you your answer. I also do not know who makes tan side curtains, so that is why I have not said anything on that topic!

On the other hand perhaps this information will help you in your mounting of the tan side curtains if/when you get them!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Tuesday, December 25, 2012 - 10:03 pm:

I suggest you obtain the prints from the Ford archives. I did this, and it worked out well for me. Granted, I have a '25 roadster, but if you want the real details, you are going to have to have the prints. What Dan says is probably true. I don't own a '26, or care to either. The point I'm trying to make is, if you want it right, do your research. I wouldn't rely on CarTouche or anyone else. When I made mine, I used the Ford prints, and I made paper patterns of everything prior to making the side curtains. Keep in mind the old material shrinks with age, so they are good only for a general idea of how the curtains were originally made. From there you need the prints, and the correct fasteners. The last few pictures Dan posted are of Anzo fasteners, which are no longer made, so you will have to reuse old ones, or find them at swap meets. I did it, and you can too, if you are willing to do it correctly. It isn't impossible.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By arnie johansen on Friday, December 28, 2012 - 07:47 pm:

Larry:

Yes, I will continue to look for the female fasteners with the "small cylinder" protruding from the mounting surface that touches the rear inner top bow.

I have been to many parts swaps over the years and eventually I hope to find some!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike on Friday, December 28, 2012 - 09:24 pm:

I still wish there was an affordable set of curtains on the market for the improved touring cars, no matter what fasteners they have.....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By arnie johansen on Saturday, December 29, 2012 - 10:19 am:

Dennis:

I just thought of an upholstery supplier that may make side curtains in tan. Perhaps you can supply the material that you want them made from.

The company is Classtique Upholstery. You can write Elizabeth at elizabeth@classtiqueupholstery.com and perhaps discuss your situation with her.

I have no involvement with this company, but she gave a seminar at one of the Model T Ford annual events. The participants said she did good work.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Seth - Ohio on Saturday, December 29, 2012 - 12:15 pm:

Arnie,

Thank you for the idea of contacting Elizabeth and your continued effort to help me solve my problem.


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