I bought this cam and bearing from a vendor recently. On 12/01 I sent this photo in asking them to send me the correct bearing, or advise me to cut this one down. So far the question has gone unanswered so I thought maybe someone on here might be able to offer some insight.

It's marked 24-27 on the bag and it's a Stipe 280 cam. I dug around my secret stash and found three more bearings, all the same length. Have the Stipe cams changed shape? I didn't have this problem with the last four or five I have installed. This one is 1/4" too long.

Tim, Are you trying to install the early bearing on the later style cam?

I'm trying to install the cam bearings that came in the same box with the cam and almost $2k worth of other stuff. I suspect your correct, maybe the bag was marked wrong.

Does anyone have a photo of an early bearing next to a late bearing, or the measurements of each? I haven't got the other style here (obviously).

See if that one fits the middle bearing on the cam. That doesn't look like the front bearing.

Ops, I take that back! I'm holding a middle bearing--It has tapered ends. Sorry.

I had new/old comparison pictures on the old computer. I'll check to see if I made a backup of the pictures. If not, I can get them tomorrow.

Tim, I'm not up on the differences in the cam bearings as I'm pretty new to T's. I bought a stipe 250 cam, yet to be installed. The instruction sheet I was given says " these cams require the early style long front cam bearing. Be sure to install the bearing with the radiused lip against the flange."

I'm not sure what constitutes an early style long front bearing? Just thought this may make sense to you or someone with more experience than I have. Hope this helps, Jim

The bearings are made a bit long to account for wear on on the thrust surfaces of used camshafts. You need to turn them down on a lathe to fit. Here's the hard part. You need to account for the position of the screw hole. By that I mean you could turn down the wrong end and the bearing won't line up with the screw hole even though it fits perfectly on the cam.

This has to be the wrong bearing, like I wrote before I have put in more than one cam. I'm not ready to cut this one down yet, as it governs the thrust on the cam and I don't want to gamble with someone elses engine. As you know, the cam gear teeth are at an angle, when the crank turns, it pulls the cam forward as it turns (or pushes it back - gotta think on that one). I think the theory is that straight cut gears would be noisier. Anyway, if the bearing is too short, the cam will slide front to back a little and could affect performance as well as making an unpleasant noise.

Tim: The Stipe cams use the 1909-1925 front cam bearing, not the 1925-1927 front.

All I can tell you, Tim, is that I just fit a Stipe cam and bearings this fall. I purchased a late cam and had purchased a newly made front bearing. I had to turn down the length of the bearing to fit. I spoke with Don Lang some time back and it was he who informed me the bearings were made a bit longer. Wasn't hard, you just have to account for the position of the screw hole. As I recall there was some discussion of this problem in a previous post.
You are right to be cautious about the fit, since the angled gears do cause movement of the cam.
Check with your supplier re the bearings and let us know what you find out.

Ron Osborn, Tulsa Chapter recently received his Stipe cam and a new bearing set from Langs. The front bearing on the cam is the short 26-27 version. This was a surprise as Stipe cams were usually available only in the earlier version. The correct, new front bearing that came with the cam was too long and too small. We cut about .030 off the length and used an adjustable reamer to size the bearing to the new cam. The literature that came with the new bearings explained the the bearings were sized for a worn cam.

Lang's latest catalog now lists these new cam bearings available in two sizes, origial for a new cam or the version sized for a worn cam.

Tim, I'm pretty sure you can trim the long front bearing to fit your new cam.

I emailed Bill, here is the reply:

Hi Tim
We only manufacture the late 24-27 cam now. I did give a choice a few years ago but the inventory was too much.
You will need the shorter bearing on this cam.
Thank you for your business
Bill

This is a great example of customer service. I wrote him only a couple hours ago and already have a reply. Six days and counting from the vendor and still no resolution.

The part that gets me is the bag was marked 24-27.

Tim,

And who is that unresponsive vendor?

Seth

Tim: I was unaware of Stipe's change to use the shorter '25-'27 front bearing. Talk "years" ago was that there was a greater call for the earlier style camshafts & decision was made to use the longer bearing on all applications. Are these new cam bearings just re-babbitted shells, or completely new manufacture ?? If new, the re-pop mfg. needs to do his homework.

That may be the case. I called another vendor and found that all his measured 1-3/4" on the nose. Still seems long to me, but it would just clear the lobe. The one I have here is a hair over 1-7/8". I think whomever made this (it looks new) maybe made a copy of a copy?

Also, the vendor that I won't name sent me this today:

Hello Tim,
First, I offer my apology for taking so long to respond to your email and thereby forcing you to post on the MTFCA forum in search of advise and counsel regarding the front camshaft bearing.
The front bearings Are made a tad longer so that they can be individually fit to each camshaft as needed to limit end thrust. As I looked at your attached image of the camshaft and bearing, I could see the overhang of the bearing beyond the edge of the cam. It did not look to be a 1/4 of an inch to me but perhaps that was due to parallax and camera position. You had asked if we may have supplied you with the wrong bearing. The bearing half in the picture is square ended, the earlier style ( for the narrow cam lobe) have a radius and a notch on the lobe end of the bearing shell.
It appears that you do have the correct bearing and that it just needs to be fit to the camshaft. The lobe end of the bearing is the end to be faced off as needed.
Tim, I again apologise for the delay in responding to you.

Late in arriving and prompted by potential bad press, but it was still decent of them to take the time to write me back.

I'll use the old bearing to fix this new one. Too bad the manufacturer does not read this forum?

I'd rather have the bearing too long and too small a diameter to fit it to my particular cam. I don't see a problem.

Tim,

Why won't you tell us who this vendor is so that people that read this forum can decide whether or not they want to take the chance in placing orders with them?

"..six days and counting.." is bad enough, but when they respond in less than one day after you post?

Seth

Re-babbitted cam bearings are available in standard & undersize sizes. I don't understand the problem.

None of my cam bearings have babbitt. Is this something "they" are doing to recover old bearings?

Here's the cam differences pic. The Note on the late style says 25-27 but these were used in 24 also.

Here's a couple more photos. I ended up having to take off 3/8" off the lobe end and it still overshoots the bearing surface.

Tim

It looks to me like you have to much clearance between the lobe and the bearing. Also will the cam bolt center on the hole in the bearing? Just what I see in the pic.

In the block with the set screw installed everything is exactly where it needs to be. The front of the bearing governs the thrust, I did not change that end. I wanted a good space so it does not bind up when it gets hot. If you look at the cam photos above, you will see that there is a gap between the journal and the first lobe. Incidentally, the modified bearing is now exactly 1-3/4" long like it the originals.
I kind of feel sorry for the "shade tree mechanic" out there trying to pop in a new cam on a Saturday morning. I'd be really upset now if I did not have the proper tools on hand to shorten this.

Tim

Thanks, I haven't ran into this problem yet. Haven't installed a new cam if a few years and heard that this is a problem. Again thanks for your feed back.

Tim, I'd rather run around with a stick or a pair of scissors than machine CI. When I have to do it, I cover everything and run a vacuum at the tool.

I wonder if there's a benefit to the new bearings being longer? I don't see any, at least for the installer. Supposedly, it's to compensate for a worn cam. That doesn't make much sense because if everyone does what you did and cut the rear, the set screw to thrust distance remains the same. If a cam (used) is worn on the thrust surface, a new bearing won't help that. The bearing should be longer on the thrust side to allow "fitting".

For this purpose, a "shade tree mechanic" could just grind off the back side of the bearing for fitting.

I clamped the two halves together with a hose clamp to hold them round, and then put them in a drill press vise. I used a sanding disc on a mandrel in the drill press and just faced the end of the bearing. How's that for shadetree? I didn't have to remove a quarter inch though.

Holy cow, Tim, I think the clearance should be about .004" Where on earth did you come up with the idea you need that much clearance? The cam is supposed to be captured between the front lobe and the front thrust plate. Although its true that, under power the will be forced either forward or rearward, (I can't remember which), when cruising that cam will be rattling around like no one's business. I think you need to start over with another cam bearing. In all my years tearing down Model Ts, I have never seen that amount of clearance even on totally worn out engines.

Well Richard, the journal stops well before the lobe. You can see the unfinished casting between the journal and first lobe. I believe the cam gets pushed rearward when turning force is applied. This is why the front of the bearing rides against the cam. The original bearings are 1-3/4" long and now this one is exactly the same length. I don't think that the journal would stop if the bearing was supposed to touch the lobe. Secondary to all this, this car has a distributor on it, and there is a button in the casting to hold the cam from sliding forward just in case my theory is wrong. I think I'm covered, but I will happily cut a new bearing and change it if it rattles.

Tim, I can see why you thought there should be more clearance considering the journal stops before the lobe. However check out the Model T Service Manual at paragraph 481. It states there should be no more than .004" clearance. If you have a button on the inside of the timing gear cover to hold the cam from moving forward, that should work too. But its really easier to fit the front bearing to prevent movement.

You make a good point Richard, I will look into it.

Fitting the new front bearings is not the big deal some are making it to be. I install the original bearing in the block with the set screw. You need to install the cover and using a depth mike, measure the distance to the bearing. Next, do the same with the new bearing. If you need to trim a portion of this front face to match the original position then do it. This will ensure the cam gear is located correctly. Finally, cut the other end of the bearing to give something like .002-.004 end clearance. The picture posted above is of a ruined bearing (.030 end clearance) that will produce a knock. Excessive clearance (doesn't matter if its from wear or error in machining) produces the same result.

Richard, Thanks for finding the exact paragraph needed, it addressed the issue perfectly. I would not have posted if I had it on hand! I finally found my service manual and read what you mentioned. I will change tactics and re-do the bearing, fitting to 0.004" instead of making the bearing exactly 1-3/4" long. I think this one would be fine with the distributor holding it in place, but just in case the owner wants to go back to coils later, I will re-fit another bearing. This one is the same length as the one I took out, I guess it was fit wrong too.

All this talk of bearings that don't fit have me concerned about a camshaft replacing project I have just started.

According to my Lang's catalog, it says that the Stipe 280 cam is made for 1909-24 Ts (I'm assuming that's the long front bearing).

I have a '24, but have not removed the cam yet to see which style it is. I guess since '24 was a transitional year, it could be either, adding to the fun.

Question #1 - Can the Stipe 280 cam be used on the later style engine?

Question #2 - If above is yes, do any special modifications need to be done to the longer (earlier style) bearing, or can you simply use the shorter (later style) bearing without modification?

I don't have access to any special equipment, so it is very important to me that I have all my ducks in a row. I don't want to get into a situation where I spend $400+, remove my camshaft, and then find out that I can't make things work.

Thanks again for all your help!

Bob

You can use the cam in either the early or late engine. You just match the front bearing to the cam. Use the specs above your post (.003-.004" end-play). The end-play is necessary because the cam "grows" when the engine gets hot. The running thrust is on the front of the bearing so you can file or sand the rear of the bearing.

Where or from who(Whom?) does one buy the best possible new cam bearings or rebabbitt original ones.
And does and body selling or making them offer services to custom bore and trim trust to a specific camshaft if some dimenions are given when ordering?

I heard of CNC machined bronze "T" cam bearings.Anybody know about that?

All New cam bearings have to be fit to your cam weither it be a new cam or a used cam. See our coments posted on May 24, 2007. "Crummy New Cam Bearings & Ball Caps, Rants & Raves" The cam bearing set screw hole is positioned relative to the front of the bearing because this is where the inside radius is positioned. Any material removed to shorten the bearing should be removed from the rear, not the front. Bill Stipes first cams all used the longer early front bearings. I believe that all of his cams being produced now use the later short bearings. All of the new cams that we manufacture are the later design. The early cam bearing is approximately 1-15/16 in length and has a notch cut in the rear for clearance of the valve lifter. The late cam bearing is approximately 1-3/4 in length and has no notch. Hope this helps.