Wood for 25 roadster

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2005: Wood for 25 roadster
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Clay on Saturday, December 16, 2006 - 08:15 pm:

Looking for a good place to get wood for my 25 roadster.
May consider making it myself if their are
good plans/specs. out there.
If you can help, please post or e-mail.
Thanks, Clay


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Saturday, December 16, 2006 - 09:16 pm:

Clay,

I don't remember if Mel Miller made wood plans for the 1923-25 Roadsters or not. I know he made them for the 1915-22 roadsters and touring and they were excellent. Good news -- the wood kit or if they are available wood plans for a 1923 high cowl to 1925 roadster should be easier to fit than one for a 1915-22. I believe only Ford was producing the roadster body by then and so you don't have as many variations.

Just a summary of what I have learned from others over the years. The tourings and roadsters can be done much easier than the sedans. Small sample size, but I have not run across anyone who has replaced the structural wood in a Centerdoor that is willing to tackle a second one. They have said -- great experience, worth the effort, but would not do another one.

In general the earlier the T body the more wood and the later the T body the less wood required. The 1918-19 T many roadster and touring bodies went back to the wood seat frames.

There are good plans available (not normally for sale -- but you can find them for loan etc.) for most of the roadster and touring car bodies.

A couple of years ago -- Tony cut the wood and rewooded a T touring door. I'm 99% sure after that experience his recommendation was to purchase the wood kit for the door rather than going to the time and effort to make it. See http://www.model-t-ford.org/tech_corner.htm the MTFCI tech corner and look through their photos on rewooding.

Also if you purchase a wood kit, there is still quite a bit of fitting for the 1922 and earlier cars. The bodies were made by 6 or so different body makers and the wood as well as the sheet metal did not just interchange between the bodies.

If you like wood working -- you can do it and have fun while you are doing it. If you want to get the car back on the road sooner, a wood kit is probably a good idea. Also, you can do a speedster body as a "temp" driver until you finish the rewooding project.

You don't have to be a "skilled wood worker" to rewood a T. But you do have to have patience and persistence. I.e. trial and error fitting until it fits right and the body looks right.


Are you a member of a local T club? You can get a lot of help both technical and emotional from the members. If yes -- another "go for it" vote, if no, then another vote for "later."

Is the wood mostly still in the body so you can take pictures, measurements and make notes on how it goes together? If so that will make it easier to recreate.

An excellent book on wood bodied cars is available from classic car books. It has a wood station wagon on the front and my copy is packed away so I don't have the name. But it is the only currently available new book on wood framed bodies. The book talks about the different types of wood, different grades of wood, grain, etc. Good info.

Wood kit providers:

a. One Model T Wood Kit maker was Mike Lepak. However I don't know if he is still making them or not. His were designed to install inside the body rather than building the wooden skeleton and installing the panels over the wood. The last e-mail address I had for him no longer works and in 2004 his number was: 218-724-5209 . If anyone has an update on if he does or does not still produce the kits, please let us know.

b. http://fordwood.com/ Chuck and Judy Cubel -- they have been doing this for a long time and they have a kit that will fit your car. They also have great drawings that will help you understand how much wood there is. Excellent information.

c. Classic Wood at 1006 Raleigh St, Greensboro, NC 27405 ph 336-691-1344 has been advertising wood kits for years. Same folks -- but their old area code was different. Positive comment at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/6/1522.html

d. I have not seen any feed back but the pictures look good at: http://www.geocities.com/pribiloffse/woodkit.html

e. There are some others also, but I don't have that information readily available.

Recommended Wood links etc:

a. is the old wodies website check out their recommend links. Their home page is: http://www.oldwoodies.com/index.htm

b. http://members.aol.com/wagonwork2/ They sell plans for wood hucksters -- one option to consider.

c. http://www.nwvs.org/Links/Links.shtml Speedster links -- good info and ideas

d. Langs sells speedster kits and depot hacks.

e. http://www.rootlieb.com/html_files/mt_spd_kit/mt_spd_kit.html Root Lieb speedster kit info.

Lots to think about. Recommend work with someone on a project before you just jump into it. It comes apart a lot quicker than it goes back together. There are also some excellent articles on using Kwick Poly (recently replaced with a new name wood restorer) to make the old wood solid enough to use for patterns.

Also, recommend you click on the Search button at the start of any thread. Type in Rewood body and click on "and" so it pulls them with both of those words. Also check out the Tech page on the MTFCI site at: http://www.model-t-ford.org/tech_corner.htm Rewooding the touring is 1/2 the job.

Good luck and don't get discouraged. Evaluate where you are and where you want to go. Then work in that direction.

Hap 1915 Model T Touring cut off and made into a pickup truck and 1907 Model S Ford Runabout in South Carolina


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Leon Parker on Saturday, December 16, 2006 - 10:30 pm:

Clay
Yes there are wood plans for the 1923-25 roadsters. Send me an e-mail if interested in them. Leon ford1914@bellsouth.net


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By james dimit on Saturday, December 16, 2006 - 10:34 pm:

I have been helping a friend with a 25 roadster for the last year or so. He bought a wood kit from Snyder's if I remember right. The wood that was left in this car, other than the sills, would fit in a shoe box.

If you have wood now I would recommend taking lots of pictures. The instructions in the kit we got consisted of the layout of the turtle deck floor. I have yet to find a good picture of the seat back wood. We just took our best guess today and put it together.

Most diagrams I've seen are for the earlier style with wood around the top edge of the body, where the 25 has an ofset lip at the top of the body panels.

I will attach some pictures of the one I'm helping with.










I will add that any wood kit you get will require a lot of trimming and fitting. If you have enough of the original wood and the tools and skill it might be as easy to copy your original pieces. Hope this helps, if you need pictures of a certain area, I may be able to help, I've taken a lot of pictures, just let me know. Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By DaGunny on Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 09:21 am:

I have a wood kit for a 24/25 roadster sitting in my basement. As I build it I will post my progress. I am not a woodworker so it was advantageous for me to buy a Cubel's wood kit.
It is pretty close - closer than what I could do.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Clay on Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 10:26 am:

Thanks Guys for the information!
My Roadster is a basket case, and may need to
find some brackets.
The wood has been removed and don't have any to speak of.
Jim, I will probably need a few pictures when
I get started.
I don't recall seeing the metal door post that
is shown in your pictures. So, your pictures
have helped already. I thought it would have been wood. Was this something Ford started in
24/25 or did they always have a metal post(brace)
for the hinge side?
Clay


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Sims on Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 12:05 pm:

Clay, 1925 was the first year for the metal door hinge post. You will find a few things that are unique for 25,such as the cowl panel upholstery retainer metal for the door side and a special door check strap retainer. Also the floor board risers are unique for 25. You will also find that the proper floor mat is not available.A few other things are unique for this year, but I can't remember them all.I also remember that the side panel upholstery in the kit I bought did not fit and I had to send patterns and have them remade by the supplier.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By J. Iversen on Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 01:21 pm:

So often my questions are answered on this forum, without ever being asked. Thanks Mr. McCalley. Thanks contributers for your every detail and constant encourgement.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By james dimit on Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 01:47 pm:

Clay, I will point out a few more things and post some more pictures. In the 3rd picture above the seat pan is metal. I'm not sure if this is 25 only or started earlier.

Also in the last picture you can see the metal brace fron the side wood to the cowl. The kit we got had wood for here and the hinge post. I cut away about 2/3 of the wood to get pieces to fit into the metal on each side, so we would have something to tack upholstery to.



metal seat pan



rear panel showing the offset at the top where the tack strip goes- we had to specify a late 25 to get the correct panel.



floor riser, hard to see but there are metal tabs punched up to hold the upholstery panel. I will see if I can figure out how to highlight them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 09:20 am:

James,I noticed the left side of body at the front where it meets the firewall,there is no metal going down to the step risers. Is this true for some of the cars? I have two 25 bodies and one has the metal and on the other one ,it's missing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth H. Todd on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 11:46 am:

Quote: 1925 was the first year for the metal door hinge post.
Question: Does this apply to touring cars as well as roadsters?
I am trying to figure out the date of a (US) touring that I bought as a '23, but I suspect that it is a 25. And yes, it does have the metal door hinge post.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 07:37 pm:

All,

In the 1925 and also again in the 1926 Body Parts Price list it has for the Roadster:


7195BRX Pillar (panel-right) 1922-24
7195CX Pillar (panel-right) 1924-25
7196BRX' Pillar (panel-left) 1922-25

For the touring it is very similar but it changes in 1921 rather than 1922:
7195BX Pillar (panel-right) 1921-24
7195CX Pillar (panel-right) 1924-25
7196BX Pillar (panel-left) 1921-25

Note in the drawing (same as in the 1923 body parts list, 1925 and 1926) the pillar the door hinge attaches to is called "Panel (Pillar) R H" in the drawing and I believe that matches Pillar (panel-right) in the parts section. They all were listed for 50 cents each for all those part numbers.



Note the part number for the roadster has an "R" in the part number. But for the 1924-25 Panel (Pillar) Right both the touring and roadster have the same number.

Based on that information from the parts books (the 1925 and 1926) --- I believe sometime in 1924 Ford switched to the "C" part and that is the metal part. It could have been mid year, late, etc. Note all the information I have on the touring and roadster bodies indicate that Ford produced them all the 1923-25 high cowl roadsters and tourings.

Hap 1915 Model T Touring cut off and made into a pickup truck and 1907 Model S Ford Runabout in South Carolina


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By james dimit on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 07:54 pm:

Jack, if you look at the last picture above of the right step riser , if I'm understanding you right, the side panel of the body wraps around behind the firewall and it is riveted to the side panel.

If you are talking about the upper part that ties the top side rail of the wood to the firewall, there was no vertical metal that would match the hinge post.

Dale, who owns this car also has a 25 touring out in the pasture- very rough- the left side panel is torn off it in the middle of the cowl area. I don't know if it has the same metal on the left side as this, or if there is even anything left there. I do know the door side post is the same. I'll have too go look, you have me curious now.

This is the left steel piece between th wood and firewall. Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 08:13 pm:

If you look on the right side of that body,there is a formed metal strip that runs from the top of the firewall down to the base. The step riser is riveted to it. one of the bodies I have has that same strip on the left side also. Both have the right side. Those pieces were originally spot welded to the body metal where the lip bends over and goes behind the firewall. I'm not sure but he may be missing that piece. The sill/body brackets bolt to it at the bottom. they used a small headed 1/4 inch bolt with square nuts . Very similer to the Model A bolts in back of "A" trucks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 08:24 pm:

I keep hoping Larry smith will jump in here and clarify some of this 25 stuff,since he's the expert.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By james dimit on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 09:19 pm:

Jack, ok now I get what your asking about. The vertical strip is not iin the wood pictures because itis still attaced to the side panel.
What may appear to be this strip in the picture showing the metal door post is actually the end of an old firewall we had mounted to the frame.

I believe this photo will show both these strips from the front side. Our wood kit had heavy wood blocks for this area included, as used on older models- obviously we didn't use them.
If this is not what your talking about let me know, I have probably 70-100 pictures of this car as found thru disassembly- wooding -and reassembling.

The car is currently in primer and the owner is hoping to paint in the next week or so. Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 09:51 pm:

Trying to post a picture of mine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jim dimit on Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 02:14 am:

Jack, that looks the same as Dales, we drilled out the rivets at the top and left the vert. piece welded to the side panel. If you look at the picture I posted compared to yours, I believe the rear of yours is broken off. The extension on ours is where it laps onto the wood top rail and is fastened with screws. Where yours ends at the top rear ours had a crack in that location, but wasn't completly broken off.

Some of the picture I posted above show how this laps onto the top wood rail. the wood was steped in to make a smooth transition from wood to steel. Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron on Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 12:44 pm:

Thanks for pointing that out. I can fix that little problem.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alan Woolf on Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 07:29 pm:

Someone whose name I have forgotten sent me a bunch of pictures of his 25 roadster body in process. The pictures can be viewed at the following address. They might help with some of the details.
Alan

http://steamingdownsouth.com/25T/25_T_Body.html


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