Body repairs

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2005: Body repairs
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Eddie on Saturday, December 30, 2006 - 09:56 pm:

Any one out there had any exposure to the do-it-yourself auto body repair videos currently available. I am not having alot of success finding a body repair guy in my area. I don't require a lot of welding or rust repair, most of the damage is limited to a badly mangled front fender and passengers side door. I am contemplating tackling it myself.Just wondering if anyone else has been down this road.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron on Saturday, December 30, 2006 - 10:04 pm:

Dave,where are you located?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ken on Saturday, December 30, 2006 - 10:47 pm:

I learned bodywork the same way, trial and error. My first attempts were horrible, but as time went on, I became better. I now do it all, and save a ton of money in the process. Patience, and the proper tools is the key.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Eddie on Sunday, December 31, 2006 - 12:08 am:

I am in Midway BC


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky on Sunday, December 31, 2006 - 12:16 am:


quote:

I don't require a lot of welding or rust repair, most of the damage is limited to a badly mangled front fender and passengers side door.



The videos give you the basic techniques and describe the tools. They won't show you how to fix YOUR door or fender as every collision and repair is different. It may take years to be able to "read" damage and learn to repair it without causing more damage. You won't learn that by watching a video. Videos are like books. You can read/watch many but until you've had a lot of practice and hands on, It's just Bodywork 101.

I can tell you with some knowledge and expertise that picking up a hammer and beating out dents is not the way to start or learn "bodywork". When someone brings a vehicle or part to my shop that has been hammered on, it's usually far more expensive to fix than if they had just brought it in to begin with.

Dents are not just bent metal, it's stretched metal. More often than not, body shops won't take "repair" work because no one there knows how to repair it. They're in the business of replacing parts.

Here's an example of a common rear-end collision. Every body shop the owner had estimate the damage had indicated replacement of the entire quarter panel. The estimates ranged from about $1900 to $2600. The insurance company would pay $1300 for repairs.



Here's the raw panel before prep and primer. No plastic filler was used. I guarantee you won't learn the technique from watching a video.



Your best bet is to locate a shop that is willing to fix the damage. A plus would be someone close. They're out there. You just need to look harder.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By paul griesse on Sunday, December 31, 2006 - 06:04 am:

Dave---I`d say go for it. The videos will help and its true that body repair shops mainly replace panels. If you can find a "coach" with some paint and body experience that would help but you CAN get it done with basic tools--try it and you will discover its not that hard--you will get better as you go and develope your own techniques. Paint supply houses can help,too. Good Luck!!! Paul


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth Harbuck on Sunday, December 31, 2006 - 07:35 am:

Dave,

I agree with Ken. I've done plenty of bodywork over the years and I do just fine as long as the damage is light - but almost always, some filler is involved.

So, if you must do it yourself, start with the door where wrinkled steel on the inside with Bondo on the outside won't matter since the inside of the door will be hidden by a trim panel.

Then, if you learned extremely fast, tackle the fender - a wrinkled underside will be quite undesirable.

Good luck!

Seth


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael K Johnson on Sunday, December 31, 2006 - 04:30 pm:

Can't you look for a used fender: even with dings it would be easier than a "mangled" one. Do you have a picture of this fender?

Best to have help when you use a hammer and dolly (maybe a heavy dolly for a T) to hammer out a fender. If it's not badly rusted then you have some leeway for metal filing (to determine high and low spots) because the metal is thicker than todays cars.

It's lots of fun if you aren't worried about having a good result the first time. Even more fun if you have some junk panels to practice on.

Also, if you repair using a lot of bondo, then don't paint the whole car with a bondo fender. I was taught a body repairer using 1 mm bondo thickness is a lot! Just prime and top coat paint the repaired fender and then later on you can decide about the final finish, if any, for the whole car.

I would go for it, but if you pay to have it done, it would be best to watch them do it to lear the vanishing art of body repair.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Frink on Sunday, December 31, 2006 - 08:50 pm:

If you can find an old Motor's manual, they had a section on body repair that was quite helpful. One tip that I got from there was "start the repair at the point were the damage stopped".
Go easy to avoid stretching the metal. The metal can be shrunk, but it is tricky.
Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Eddie on Sunday, December 31, 2006 - 10:32 pm:

Thanks to all for your tips/advice.
I think I'll attempt some of the minor repairs.
The door and fendor I will persevere with my search for a hammer and file expert. I have spent most of working carrier as a Saw Filer so I am familiar with oxy acetylene welding, shrinking and moving metal etc, although this body work stuff is a new ballgame, never seem to be able to evaluate the job properly untill it is painted and black is not very forgiving, Ha, Ha !


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Moore on Sunday, December 31, 2006 - 10:45 pm:

Ken,

From those pictures you are the best in the world. I have done lots of bump work but nothing like that. I learned the hard way on T sheet metal. You really have to wack that steel to move it. My wife had a similar accident with a modern vehicle and I figgured I would fix it. I pulled it into my shop and removed the tail light--got up inside and gave it a big slam, tore a hole right through the fender. I wish I had your skill. I don't know how you brought that back without streching it bigger or makeing holes with the file.

Tim Moore


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Sherm Wetherbee on Monday, January 01, 2007 - 11:53 am:

To Dave, Is there a voke school in your area that offers evening classes? Most of the evening classes sre set up to teach do it yourselfers rather than make professional bodymen. They would have the tools,spray booth, paint etc to do the job plus a teacher to show you how. If you do it yourself get some bashed fenders and body panels from a local body shop scrap pile and practice. get the feel of where to hit and how the metal moves. Don't try to learn on the real thing. The metal is streched. There is no such thing as a dent without streched metal To Ken, nice job! My 40 plus years as an ASE certified tinman, 25 years in a shop and 15 years as an insurance damage appraiser I have to agree with you that today the trend is to replace rather than repair. Thank goodness that I learned from guys that had shops during the Second World War. You fixed that fender or you made one, there was no such thing as getting a new one. BY the way I would not have written a new qtr. for that job, would have written lots of hours for repair. A shop can make more more money repairing than replacing and turn out a better job. I have a hard time getting a lot of shops to believe that. Qtr. panels and door skins especially. I could never beat the flat rate and do the job right on those two. By the way do you still spread lead? There is a Lost art!! Out of the 150+ shops in my area, I only know three that still does. One is 82 years old and the other two are run by Europeans working mostly on high end cars.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Monday, January 01, 2007 - 12:03 pm:

The old apprenticeship system, where a kid would work for a master craftsman in return for his training, has a lot to be said for it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth Harbuck on Monday, January 01, 2007 - 12:03 pm:

Ken,

Those pictures above add value to the hood you fabricated for my Speedster. That hood I haven't finished - MY BAD! That Audi looks mighty fine before paint, for sure.

Happy New Year to All!

Seth


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky on Monday, January 01, 2007 - 11:18 pm:

Well, thanks for the "flowers" guys.

To Sherm; Yep, I actually made money on this one. I normally don't do insurance work but it was for an old customer. Since then, the insurance company has actually sent a couple of "high-end" and custom cars to me for repairs. As you might know being an adjuster, that's quite unusual. They're usually tied at the hip with selected shops and dealers. That or some customers may have said something to them.

And yes, I still do lead work but it's mostly for joining panels now. (Sail panels, tops, etc.) I can work a low spot out as fast as I can fill, file and blend. Besides, handling and disposing of the lead dust is a PITA these days. The techniques involve learning to shape metal as well as learning to reverse damage. That was my point about the videos--They just don't teach it.

Ron, that may be where I picked up the habit. When I was much younger, my uncle was a master body man and painter. I got to see and touch a lot of fine show cars working with him during the summers. Some of his work showed up in Hot Rod magazine back in the 60's and 70's. He used to live about a mile away from Don Garlits' place outside of Akron, Ohio. I used to hear Don fire up the Green Monster engine (jet)during tests and my uncle did much of the paint work for his cars. We made a number of trips over there. That was an amazing spectacle to watch.

I learned a lot from my uncle. I hope I'm worthy enough to carry on his fine talents and some day pass them on. My uncle died in an freak auto accident December 24, 1999. To him, I will always be grateful.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank Harris on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 01:40 pm:

This is a test to see if I can post. No message, just a test.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Pappas on Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 06:21 pm:

That advice about taking a class is a good idea. I took our community college auto body class last summer, and just started the next section this semester.
They teach you all the types of welding as well as how to shrink stretched metal, pull out dents, repair holes, use fillers, paint etc. It's a good thing to do if you want to learn how to fix your car's body. Often you can even work on your own project at the college shop!
Good luck!


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