Can anyone explain the use of this Allen Electric tool??

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration
Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2005: Can anyone explain the use of this Allen Electric tool??
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Patterson on Saturday, January 27, 2007 - 07:51 pm:

Hi Guys
Jack Daron and I both have one of these tools, but neither of us can figure out what it is used for?
mystery tool
Mine came in a box of tools for generator and starter rebuilding which goes with the Allen Electric generator tester. I can find no use for it on starters or generators.
Obviously it is puller of some kind used for a one inch bore.
We are stumped! Can anyone help?
Ron the Coilman


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron on Saturday, January 27, 2007 - 07:58 pm:

Ron, Is that a spring around the lower part of the puller? Mine doesn't have one on it,but I can cure that problem. The bore on top piece is 4 inches.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Patterson on Saturday, January 27, 2007 - 08:12 pm:

Jack
The spring is in a groove in the upper end of the expansion end of the puller head. This allows it to be inserted and expanded upon tightening thereby grabbing the item to be pulled?
Obviously it is for a bearing or bushing with an approximately one inch bore. To me that leaves the generator and starter out. I have been thinking everywhere the Model T uses one inch ID bearing or bushings. The driveshaft front bushing is one inch, but the depth of the puller head is too short.
I am stumped.
Ron the Coilman


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe on Saturday, January 27, 2007 - 09:30 pm:

Does it pull the rear bearing in the early Model A Powerhouse generator? Only idea I have.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Robb on Sunday, January 28, 2007 - 04:28 pm:

I don't know what you call it, but my dentist used it on me last time.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Sunday, January 28, 2007 - 04:34 pm:

The transmission tail piece has a bushing with about a 1 inch inside diameter.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Frink on Sunday, January 28, 2007 - 05:56 pm:

It is not for the commutator end bushing on the starter?
Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Patterson on Sunday, January 28, 2007 - 06:05 pm:

Bob
It won't work for the starter brush cap babbitt bushing (one half inch ID) because of the one inch gripping diameter. Allen Electric made another tool, which I have, to remove the babbitt bushing.
James
It has a gripping depth of only 3/4 inch.
I am totally baffled by this one?
Ron the Coilman


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael K Johnson on Sunday, January 28, 2007 - 07:11 pm:

There are a couple of hints I can see which might lead to identifying this tool but a couple of questions first.

Are you sure the two pieces form a complete set? There were a lot of other cars on the road so why do you think it is for a Model T / A. By the way what about Ford trucks or Fordson Tractors?

Furthermore, was the Allen Electric market limited to automotive applications? From a look at their patents, they might have been involved in other types of electric motors. I don't think they would venture into drive train tools, but stay with their mandate to do electrical diagnostic and repair.

Maybe Ford asked them to make it. Could it have been an assembly line tool or jig.

One thing stands out for me: it must be a high volume dedicated repair tool because it seems to be one size fits all.

Another hint for size other than the bushing gripper is the size of the ribs on the cast iron plate.

Do they have a purpose? The ribs have a fixed diameter so they might hold something. Do they hold the motor frame in place while it is on end? The side of the plate we can't see would be for a bench surface. Or do the ribs fit in the end shield so pulling is aligned? A counterintuitive idea would be that plate shown face up fit inside the the motor (starter / generator) frame (the cylinder where the stator core parts are fastened)? Would the threaded puller be chucked in a disconnected drill press for alignment? Does the end of the shaft have a dead center hole in it? Is the threaded shaft long enough to pull a bearing / bushing from the opposite end plate?

What about wear marks of the two pieces? Does one look more used than the other?

Well I'm stumped, you will just have to tell us Ron!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron on Sunday, January 28, 2007 - 07:34 pm:

Michael, trust me,this isnt a prank . Ron and I both would like to know what this tool was for. It would be great if someone had an old catalog we could reference and see exactly what application it was intended for. It has no numbers on it. Allen electric made testers for the model T's and most likely other cars. I have a generator test stand made by them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael K Johnson on Sunday, January 28, 2007 - 07:46 pm:

I know Jack, I'm just messin wit cha! I love who done it / what is it threads! That's it technical documentation is the answer.

I already looked at a mess of patents but there really doesn't look like there is anything proprietary about the design. I saw a few bushing grabber patents and they were very complex. I would bet dinner on its not being patented!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alex Alongi on Sunday, January 28, 2007 - 08:42 pm:

Ron & Jack,

This maybe way out there, but is it possible this tool is for the tester itself?

Alex


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron on Sunday, January 28, 2007 - 08:51 pm:

Alex, I don't think so.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William E. Harris on Sunday, January 28, 2007 - 08:56 pm:

What does the writing on the instrument say? Does it have any patent date on it?

Bill Harris


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky on Sunday, January 28, 2007 - 08:57 pm:

I doubt that it's even from the Model T era. The casting and handle remind me of the late 40s or newer tools. Tool makers were proud of their inventions and displayed the date and/or patent info on the tool up to about the 40s. The fitting on the end is odd. With the cutout and the light weight look, It doesn't look like a bearing or bushing puller. It's similar to a seal installer/puller I had for automatic transmissions. The screw handle may not even go with the casting.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron on Sunday, January 28, 2007 - 09:27 pm:

It goes with it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Garnet on Sunday, January 28, 2007 - 11:46 pm:

Chalk it up to being a muffler bearing tool ... if the great minds of this group don't know, then what else could it be :-)

Garnet


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger K on Monday, January 29, 2007 - 05:43 am:

Ron Pattersson wrote; "The driveshaft front bushing is one inch, but the depth of the puller head is too short."

What about the early split driveshaft housings from 1910 to 1913 - If the U-joint housing is possible to remove, then maybe this puller can be used?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Lewis R. Rash on Monday, January 29, 2007 - 08:31 am:

Men of great knowledge: It is the canooter valve remover!!!! (just a little joke) Isn't it frustrating to not be able to identify these items??


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron on Monday, January 29, 2007 - 09:53 am:

Guys ,first ,thanks for all your suggestions. This tool is decieving in that it looks frail,but on further examination,you see it is really built well. The large chunk of cast iron has a rounded area that would fit in a four inch opening. The little petcock type handle is only there to expand the jaws of the puller. The 5/8 nut is the brute that,when tightened does the business. A driveshaft housing is 3 1/4 inches ,or there about across the opening. We just have to keep looking.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alex Alongi on Monday, January 29, 2007 - 11:47 am:

Jack & Ron,

Not at all familiar with Allen, but is it possible it's not an automotive tool? When my father-in-law died in '78 I found a strange tool in a tool box along with a ring compresser, a valve lapper, a bore gauge & a Terraplane Bendix drive, turned out to be a bathtub valve stem handle puller.

Alex


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ray Belland on Monday, January 29, 2007 - 12:45 pm:

I don't know for sure but it looks similar to what is refered to as a ford generator race puller Z-93 i saw in the 1926 K.R.WILSON TOOL book on page 49 of the reprinted book sorry my scanner is down or i would have sent a picture. RAY


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Patterson on Monday, January 29, 2007 - 02:17 pm:

BINGO, That's it Ray!
I went out to the shop and found a used generator brush cap with the ball bearing remains (outer race) stuck in the stamping cup. This tool fits through the outer race ID and expands around the edge of the race using the T handle. You tighten the nut and the bearing outer race comes out very easily.
I am embarassed to say I had several brush caps with this problem and had set them aside as I could not get the race out. Little did I know the tool to remove the race was in my Allen Electric generator/starter repair tool box.
Apparantly this was a common Model T era problem and this puller allowed you to remove the race and save the brush cap.
Thanks Ray and everyone else who helped. I am also sure Jack will be glad hear.
Ron the Coilman


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ray Belland on Monday, January 29, 2007 - 07:51 pm:

RON no thanks necessary but i'll be in need of a ford H.C.C.T.soon so remember be kind to a poor elderly canadian. RAY


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron on Monday, January 29, 2007 - 07:54 pm:

Ray,just send him the coils and relax by the fire!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron on Monday, January 29, 2007 - 07:57 pm:

Ron, I have an older copy ,or at least part of one,of a KR Wilson catalog ,and I think a similier tool is on page 14. Only it looks like there were two center bolts of different sizes?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Patterson on Monday, January 29, 2007 - 08:19 pm:

"Poor Canadian"
We have coil testers.
Part of the Stash
Ron the Coilman


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ray Belland on Monday, January 29, 2007 - 10:05 pm:

Well the saying is correct a picture is worth a thousand words and all i can say is i won't be sleeping well for the rest of the month but i know what will be keeping me awake OH MY GOD WHAT A SITE FOR THESE POOR EYES. RAY


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron on Monday, January 29, 2007 - 10:22 pm:

Ray, it's just 29 easy payments!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Scherzer on Monday, January 29, 2007 - 10:31 pm:

But Ray you change your coils from doing this

image\[double spark]double spark

To performing like this
coil tester


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Patterson on Monday, January 29, 2007 - 11:05 pm:

Poor Canadian
I spared you a photo of the others.
I have been roundly criticized for this stash, and after twenty years stocks are getting low. Someone has to keep them out of the hands of the hoarders?
Ron the Coilman


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ray Belland on Monday, January 29, 2007 - 11:10 pm:

Boy now you guy's are ganging up on me,i feel like i've taken an overdose and BOB i've got your e-mail address sitting on one of my work benches right now i almost called you last week your the closest to me since i live in windsor across from detroit anyway i'm going to take some pepto-bismal go for a drive and get off this ledge i'm walking on it seems to be getting narrower. RAY


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron on Monday, January 29, 2007 - 11:20 pm:

We Yanks stick together.


Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.
Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration