A Black Deer

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2005: A Black Deer
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Saturday, March 03, 2007 - 08:15 pm:

You have probably heard of a horse of a different color, but have you ever seen a black white tail deer before?

The photo came from Michigan with this note --"this black deer (Melanistic color phase), is even more rare than an albino".

deer


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Iversen on Saturday, March 03, 2007 - 11:36 pm:

Thanks for the pic, James. With so little recorded on melanism, within the genus Odocoileus, I thought it meant ALL black. That flag is a surprise.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Leming on Saturday, March 03, 2007 - 11:49 pm:

dont label me an activist please, but if its so rare, why was it killed?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eric Hylen on Sunday, March 04, 2007 - 12:21 am:

So that it would stay still for the photo.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Sunday, March 04, 2007 - 11:46 am:

Good question, good answer!

The deer could perhaps be half Holstein, but they are seldom all black.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Vincent on Sunday, March 04, 2007 - 02:12 pm:

I know for certain that is illegal in the state of Michigan to take an albino deer, no matter what hunting seaon it is, but I don't know if they make any mention of a black deer. Either way, if it is illegal to shoot an albino deer one would assume that it would also be illegal to shoot a black one as well.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marc Roberts on Sunday, March 04, 2007 - 05:43 pm:

I suspect that the appearance of this photo on this forum is an indication that the pace of deer production has increased to a point where brown deer do not have sufficient time to dry, hence the switch to the faster drying black.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eric Hylen on Sunday, March 04, 2007 - 08:24 pm:

That may be the case here in Minnesota. If they weren't cute, there'd be a bounty on them. They're becoming a very real traffic hazard.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tyrone on Sunday, March 04, 2007 - 10:55 pm:

I'm with you John Leming. If you have to shoot something like this black (or any color) dear, shoot it with a camera.
Funny, 25 years military service taught me how to kill a man 28 different ways, and still can't see any reason why to kill so much as a spider. But lets talk about T's.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Iversen on Sunday, March 04, 2007 - 11:14 pm:

The bait is difficult to resist. I'll just bite through my lower lip and distract myself with pain.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tyrone on Sunday, March 04, 2007 - 11:56 pm:

I understand the need to control the deer population even if it is for their own good. I understand the safety problem deer cause for the traveling public. What I don't understand is hunting is called a "sport." In looking at most all "sports" there are at least two aposing sides of equal or near equal value, skilled, trained, etc.. foe. In hunting, we have one armed foe and one unarmed foe. Where is the "sport" in that? If we are to call hunting a sport, then lets give the deer a 30/30 and have a sporting chance. Otherwise, if a hunter has to go out and kill bambi or any of bambi's forest friends, call it what it is, don't call it what it is not - a sport. God, how did I get off on this?
Mr. Iversen, you don't have to bite through your lip on my account. I've got thick skin. I admit I came across a bit gruff in my ealier statement. Glad you called me on it. But I do stand by feeling of shooting with camera and not a gun. That all I've got to say about that.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Fultz on Monday, March 05, 2007 - 12:02 am:

To Eric,James,and Mark and their smart remarks to these questions. I really irks me when they post a smart reply before I can think of one. Keep them coming guys as a good laugh is good for the soul. Enjoy..Bob in WV


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jasper Randall on Monday, March 05, 2007 - 03:23 pm:

I don't know what all the fuss is about. One day deer will evolve, develop gun powder, invent guns, and shoot US. Sounds fair to me...just give it a quadrillion years, right?

Oh, sorry...forgot about growing hands....

....make that a quintillion years....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Leming on Monday, March 05, 2007 - 03:29 pm:

wish I could have stirred up as much interest with my engine block casting number question!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Noel Denis Chicoine, MD on Monday, March 05, 2007 - 03:49 pm:

I really don't want to get into this, but I will. My family eats about 6 deer, a dozen pheasants, half a dozen ducks, and 1 or 2 turkey that I hunt, and kill, each year. This spares me from having to purchase someone elses cow or turkey or whatever raised on antibiotics and processed feed. I also get a large amount of exercise (I don't golf and can't run), and get much more enjoyment, and mental exercise, than I ever could by walking in the park. Man has been a hunter for millions of years. It's only in the past 50 or so that people have thought that it is unnatural.
Noel


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Paul on Monday, March 05, 2007 - 03:58 pm:

I'm with you Noel! Some people don't agree with hunting, however, most that do hunt, enjoy meals that the others will never taste. I always smile when I hear them talk and just think about how long (or short) of time they would have survived as pioneers in this great country.

They can have their view, as long as they don't try to force it on everyone.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Sizemore on Monday, March 05, 2007 - 04:12 pm:

Amen!!!!!!!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Leming on Monday, March 05, 2007 - 04:13 pm:

Fellows I didnt mean to cause such a stir here, I dont have an opinion one way or another really, I just ask a simple question, sometimes its best not to kill something if its really rare, so - is a black deer really rare? I dont know for sure myself, but Ive never seen one., but if you want to kill them, kill em, I dont care!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chuck Godfrey on Monday, March 05, 2007 - 09:27 pm:

James I see you got the same reaction I got with my post. And that is all I am saying about that!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Daily on Monday, March 05, 2007 - 10:11 pm:

I vote to shoot the hunters...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Hudson on Monday, March 05, 2007 - 10:16 pm:

To those gentlemen who expressed an anti-hunting sentiment-would you feel that way about a deer that switched from coils to a distributor? :-) -Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vince Mannino on Monday, March 05, 2007 - 10:42 pm:

In my experience, a deer with a water pump is easy to trail...

Vince


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Iversen on Tuesday, March 06, 2007 - 12:02 am:

It seemed another perspective might be useful to this discussion so I asked a deer to comment:
How do I feel about hunting? Have you ever heard of carrying capacity? For goodness sakes you moron, can't you see we are our own worst enemy! Less predation, we're limited only by food and water. We have the ability to almost double our numbers every year. Has history taught you nothing? We were getting along with native Americans just fine but then you arrived and began cutting down the forests and increasing browse. Natually, we exploded to feed your whiny children and sacrificed ourselves to your market hunters to stoke your greedy dash to the left coast. Then you pushed us aside in favor of your weakness for artery clogging beef. It's been miserably crowded for us ever since: Remember when you began leasing the Kaibab Plateau to stockmen in 1893 and then, to appease them, over subsequent decades, trapped and poisoned over 10,000 predators? We responded with what we do best, besides selflessly staving the hunger of carnivores who apparently appreciate us a far cry greater than you do. From 3000 contented residents, we expoded to nearly a 100,000. The best you could come up with was dispatching Zane Grey to act out his cowboy fantasies, in an attempt to herd some of us across the Colorado R. Well, we aren't pushed around like dopey sheep and we remained, munching everything in sight, finally emaciating, then dropped like flies, by the tens of thousands, year after year. Smelled up the Kaibab like the dickens and not a predator in sight to clean up the mess. If you'd stop messing with Model T's and put your nose in the books once in a while, you would find this scenario has repeated itself endlessly: Grand Isle, Llano Basin, Edwards Plateau, TX. and on, and on. What you need to understand is that we don't have built in control mechanisms like hares, grouse or grey squirrels. In other words, we're not cyclic animals. We've inhabited the earth since the Miocene, with little change, and we're certainly not going to amend our low down ways now because Walt Disney created the Bambi syndrome. If you want to regard the world through the sentimental haze of cinema, go to the video store and rent the "The Three Little Pigs". I doubt you'll stop eating bacon because these characters also are endowed with human emotions and intelligence. So pack this in your cud and chew it: either give us back our predators, devise a birth control method, or get to eatin'.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jasper Randall on Tuesday, March 06, 2007 - 12:55 am:

Lest their be any doubt as to my stance on the subject....my dad practically spray-painted my baby stroller camouflage. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Tuesday, March 06, 2007 - 02:43 am:

Clever, John I. . Non-human predators take the weak, old, and the unprotected, thereby strengthening the specie. . Human predators take the breeders in their prime.

Cougars and wolves used to be fine deer population controllers, but all the sheep and fat, weak humans are such easy prey..

rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tyler Searle on Tuesday, March 06, 2007 - 07:23 am:

Ricks:

With all due respect, the "predators taking only the sick and weak, etc.", is an old wives tale. Predators will take whatever they can catch and if the snow is deep has a heavy crust, that's just about whatever they want. Ever come upon a moose or deer being eaten alive? I'd prefer a bullet.
The one about them killing only what they're going to eat is also bunk. Ask most any bush pilot about that one.
Spend more time in the woods than most do working on their flivvers, though more often now with a camera, and have opinions based on what I've seen and observed, not on emotion and Disney films.
John I. and Noel have it right.

Tyler


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Paul on Tuesday, March 06, 2007 - 08:38 am:

And here I thought they were considered a period accessory....Period Accessories


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker on Tuesday, March 06, 2007 - 09:27 am:

Oh, so this thread is Model T - related after all.......... I was beginning to wonder.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Tuesday, March 06, 2007 - 09:47 am:

Chuck, I lost your thread, but posted this for you. There has been a reaction, but February was a slow month here.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Ward on Friday, March 09, 2007 - 04:38 pm:

I first thought these Piebald deer were goats.Piebakd deer


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Friday, March 09, 2007 - 07:40 pm:

Reminds me of another deer story. My wife's cousin was a New York State Trooper for many years. Every Fall they operated Deer Check Stands on the main highways back to New York City.

Most years only Male Deer could be shot and had to have antlers at least four inches long. This guy stopped and immediately started an argument that the antlers were over four inches long and if that was a female he could not tell and there was no way to know from a distance.

Her cousin said sex was not an issue, but species was a big issue and asked what he did with the strap and bell that was around this animal's neck.

The animal was a pet goat and the State Police had already been notified that it was shot almost in the door yard and had a warning bell attached at the time. The guy did not keep his deer.


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