Hello to you all from Trevor Davis in Australia. I am restoring a centerdoor which I believe is a 1916 model. The body was imported from the USA about 10 years ago but no work had been done on it until I bought it in late 2005. The body is very complete and has the identification number W46149 which I understand indicates it was manufactured by Wadsworth.
I imported a pair of rear fenders from the USA from a well known reputable antique auto parts supplier who would have obtained them from an equally well known and reputable manufacturer of Model T fenders. The fenders are claimed by both these parties to be for 1915 - 1916 centerdoors. Unfortunately mine do not fit and it does seem that they may not be able to be altered as the radius of curvature is incorrect. In hindsight it is now becoming clearer that there may be differences in the attachment of the fenders to the 15 and 16 year models and also differences between the bodies produced by the two main manufacturers Fisher and Wadsworth. My problem is where do I go from here? I can suffer the loss and write them off but where do I obtain the correct ones for my vehicle? Has anybody else had a similar experience and perhaps knows something about fender differences if any between the 15 and 16 models and between the bodies made by Fisher and Wadsworth?
Any assistance or advice will be greatly appreciated.

Trevor,

1. Congratulations on your Centerdoor.
2. Someone from Australia, a while back had posted about having a Centerdoor body and planning to convert it to right hand drive -- was that you, a previous owner, or are their possibly two (2) Centerdoor bodies in Australia that were imported from the USA and are looking to be mated to a chassis?
3. If you have a copy of Bruce's book or access to it "The Model T Ford" it has excellent information on the 1915 and the 1917-mid 1923 Centerdoors.
4. There is lots still to discover or rediscover about all the Ts but especially the 1916 Centerdoor. I suspect but have very little proof that the Ford continued to manufacture the 1915 style into the 1916 model year but not the 1916 Calendar year and then stopped while they switched over to the new style Centerdoor body. Bruce McCalley shares on page 287 of his book "Few 1916's have survived; the author [Bruce] has yet to see a "real" one. Ford produced 1,859 Sedans during fiscal 1916, just four-tenths of one percent of the 501,462 Fords built that year."
5. Step one -- if your car has the Aluminum body with the three piece windshield (two top panes of glass and one lower pane of glass) then the 1915 style Centerdoor fenders should fit it. Note those fenders screw into the body and do NOT use the standard fender brackets (Bruce's book page 201). They also have a special splash apron that matches up to them, (Bruce's book page 201 & 287) and matches the standard 1915 running board, and the 1915 style body. Gas tank was under the rear seat. That Aluminum body is different from the ones that came later.
6. The steel panel body was basically used and not changed from 1916 to mid 1923 and varied somewhat between the Fisher and the Wadsworth -- i.e. you cannot just interchange the parts. It used the standard 1916 to 1923 rear fenders -- it did have a special sedan splash apron. Gas tank was under the front driver's seat.
7. And there are a couple of wild cards to mention:
a. How did you determine that the car body is USA and not Canadian? By the way -- I don't know who produced the Centerdoor bodies for Canada -- if anyone does, please let us know.
b. How do you know it is for a Model T Ford and not a Dodge or other make as the body companies such as Wadsworth that supplied Ford also probably supplied other makes with a Centerdoor.
c. On page 290 Bruce also shares, "Ford Sedan bodies were not made by Ford. Apparently they were made by either Fisher or Wadsworth, and perhaps others." That perhaps others could be a real wild card. I.e. when Ford was prototyping the Centerdoor -- several companies may have produced a body for him to consider. If that did occur, that prototype car may have been sold to someone and/or survived somehow. There is a 1930 coupe on a Ford chassis that was obviously a prototype -- different body molding and trim on each side of the car. I think it was a 3 window coupe -- but it has been a long time since I read that article. It did survive and has been restored. And if it was a Wilson body -- they also placed a "W" in front of their body numbers. As far as I know -- Wilson never produced a Centerdoor -- but just something to remember as we are looking at the puzzle pieces. Just because someone is holding the "smoking gun" doesn't always mean they pulled the trigger etc.
8. Does your car have the front cowl without the indent as well as a "W"? See http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/27109.html?1175625772 if you don't recall seeing the difference between the Fisher body with the indent and the Wadsworth body without the indent at the bottom of the cowl.
9. Where was your Body number? Les shared the picture below from a 1921 or so Wadsworth Centerdoor body.

He shared it was on a steel / rusty tin tag 3 1/2 inches long by 3/4 inches wide. He found it by lifting the rear seat cushion up and looking at the wooden frame the seat cushion sat on. He also shared that number was written on several other parts of the body wood in crayon, doors, seat bottoms, etc, He also has a 1921 Wadsworth Centerdoor that has a similar tag but it is a zinc type of material with the same type of font size.
10. And see the thread that I plan to start asking "Which Centerdoor has the indent?" I may have labeled the pictures wrong as Les shared his Wadsworth has the indent at the bottom of the front cowl! Oh well -- I said things wrong before and will probably get a few more wrong before I die.
11. I hope that helps get you started. Please let us know a little more about the body. Also -- have you tried to track it back to the USA etc. to find out if you can discover what the original engine number was? For that matter is it still a speedster somewhere (the only reason our 1915 isn't a speedster is my Dad wouldn't let me do it when I was a teenager!)

Hap 1915 Model T Ford Touring cut off and made into a pickup truck and 1907 Model S Runabout

Trevor,

Yes, I found the posting where you were asking about converting to right hand drive -- so only one body. If it is the steel body -- it DOES NOT use the 1915 Centerdoor fenders -- they are only for use on that aluminum bodied early Centerdoor that sat lower on the car and did NOT have a fender iron.

Hap 1915 Model T Ford Touring cut off and made into a pickup truck and 1907 Model S Runabout

Trevor - I perceive this is a situation where there is not enough information for the vendors to supply the correct part for your project. Working this through with the manufacture may give you the best chance of success.

I had a similar and equally puzzling experience with a pair of '14 touring rear fenders from (I guess) the same reputable manufacturer of Model T fenders. In fact, the "radius of curvature" was the problem which caused the attachment point to the running board to be about 5 inches too far forward. What I did was photograph the part "in place" and also photographed it against another '14 fender on another touring I had for comparrison purposes. To make matters worse, the fenders were already painted and pinstripped. I sent several photos and a description of the problem to the supplier who forwarded them to the manufacturer. And guess what? - In resonable time I had a request to return the fenders for repair or replacement.

The repair was incredible. It involved undoing the rolled edge of the fender, bending everything into place, removing excess metal and rerolling the beaded edge - all work I never thought could be done so nicely. While there was some damage to the paint, it was surprisingly little and was easily repaired (I should not have painted the fenders without doing a dry fit, but I didn't think they could possibly be wrong. Anyway, after considerable self-imposed stress, I found that communicating the problem clearly to manufacturer and enlisting the support of the parts seller proved to be a super combination and my problem was fixed in a relatively painless manner.

I would encourage you to try the same approach. Both the parts suppplier and the manufacturer want you to have a successful project and they will work with you if they can to make this happen. If you can somehow document the differences in what you have and what you need, work through your supplier and be patient, I perceive you can come out of this OK. I am convinced the manufacturer can make the "fix" if he knows what that is supposed to be. Ordering another set of fenders may present the same problem unless you can get very specific on the design you need. Too bad the logistics are the way they are but we just have to put up with the inconvenience.

Steve Boyd

Trevor
A local guy here in Calgary Canada restored a "1915" center door and found that the available fenders would not fit either. I can contact him and enquire. I believe he had a set made locally. If you have no patterns I may be able to get you a pattern off his. First of course would be some pictures. Let me know if I can help. This fellow is very fussy and even went to expense of having upholstery trim custom loomed in Switzerland. The car is flawless restoration.

by Trevor Davis
To Hap Tucker, Steve Boyd and Les Schubert I greatly appreciate your very helpful advice. I keep in regular contact with my good USA 1916 centerdoor friend Robert Kiefaber who asked me to let Hap Tucker know the following. My steel bodied centerdoor which has the body number W46149 on the timber rail under the back seat has the indent on the front lower edges of the cowl. If the 'W' does stand for Wadsworth then this seems to run counter to what Hap Tucker said in the other thread titled 'Centerdoors Don't Fit'. Allow me to assure you of this observation and photos can be sent if needed. My centerdoor was in very original condition and came complete with all fittings, seats, gas tank etc. It even had remnants of much of the upholstery and blinds. The previous owners who fortunately did very little to the body assured me that it came from the USA. There is another 1916 centerdoor in a museum in Wynyard, a town in Tasmania which I have visited. There are some later models here but as far as I know there are only two 1916's in Australia. Concerning Bruce McCalley's book I have a copy, am very familar with it and have read every word he has ever written on the subject of centerdoors. I even emailed him once for some information that I wanted on the number of rivets required with the rear fenders. The appearance of my centerdoor agrees in every respect with all descriptions and photos in Bruce's book pertaining to the 1916 model. The situation at present is that I have had the timber body completely rebuilt and have progressed to the stage where nearly everything is assembled and the body will be soon be painted and upholstered.
To Steve Boyd I think your advice is excellent and it gives me much to consider. I have been in contact with the maker of the fenders to be clearer on why the fenders are offered for purchase as being for both the 1915 and 1916 models. I do have the feeling that the fenders received are only really suited for the 1915 model.
To Les Schubert many thanks for your help. My first thoughts are to see if the fenders can be modified here as I have a contact who is a wizard on panel restoration work. Will get back to you regarding your offer of patterns if this proves not to be feasible. In conclusion I am amazed that you all responded so promptly to help me with the present crisis in my workshop and send you many thanks. Regards.