I'm a new T driver and am just starting to venture beyond my own neighborhood. So far no major problems, but I've wondered what to do if I get stuck somewhere and can't find any way to get the car going again.

I read in Floyd Clymer's book "Henry's Wonderful Model T" (page 131 chapter by Les Henry, "The Ubiquitous Model T")that a T should never be towed except in an extreme emergency. It suggests lifting the car's rear wheels, locking the steering, and towing the car backwards on the front wheels. Would this be safe if I was ever forced to have it towed? I have a '26 Touring.

Thanks,
Larry Mann

I know alot of folkes in the area I puttputt around in my 1 ton.So if it goes bust,I can get help.But To be honest if I didnt have good neighbors I would join AAA and tote a cell phone.Let a man run the thing up on a roll back.
It would be a shame to have what may wind up being a 2 dollar problem cost you several 100 in repairing rear axles and busted wheels if the steering didnt stay locked.

Good sound advice Mack.

The only way a Model T can safely be towed on 4 wheels is at low speed - say less than 20 MPH - with the spark plugs removed, the throttle lever down and in high gear. Even that is dangerous and not worth it except maybe for a block or two.

A trailer or a roll back wrecker is the right way. Never Ever use a tow dolly on a T.

Never tow or drive a Model T backwards at any significant speed! The wheels are toed out and have reverse caster. The steering wheel will whip to one side and the wishbone may pop out of the oil pan and dig into the earth. I learned the hard way. When the car was towed by AAA, we pulled the spark plugs, and towed it in high gear very slowly with the front axle off the ground.

My T has a Warford, can I tow it normally (forward, at some speed) with the Warford in neutral?
Thanx,
Bob

Larry,

1. In general never tow a T.
2. Some exceptions:
a. If it is in the middle of the intersection -- and a couple of folks aren't available to push it out of the way then a short tow out of the intersection is much better than leaving it in the intersection.
b. If you have a true neutral such as with an auxiliary transmission etc. then towing can work (the car needs to be properly aligned, good tires etc. RDR towes his a lot and highly recommends it -- again if you have a real neutral and a good safe car.
c. As pointed out correctly in Clymer's book -- putting it in gear, pulling the plugs and keeping the speed below 25 can work in an emergency -- but it is NOT recommended.
3. I was really surprised to hear someone recommending to tow the T backwards. The front out bearings and/or cones for the ball bearings are threaded. They are designed to loosen when the car is rolling forward Therefore they may tighten up (not always but it has happened) when the go backwards. I have seen front hubs split from the bearing tightening up. The wheel locks up or the hub dies or both. Not good.
4. You can do a "key word" search on "Towing" and you will find: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/6580.html It has several comments you may want to consider. The "keyword search" is at the top of every posting/thread fourth icon from the right.
5. "Henry's Wonderful Model T" is a fun book to read -- I love the jokes and pictures -- but many things have been updated since it was published in 1955. If that is your main source of T information please recommend you look at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/6580.html where they discuss some great books that could be a help.
6. So what do you do so you don't get stuck out in the middle of nowhere?
a. Joining the local club is a great help -- on most tours they have enough expertise to get you going or they have a trailer that the car can be put on.
b. Slowly work your way up to a fully reliable car as well as reliable operator. Forgetting to service it properly causes problems as well as running out of gas etc.. And remember in per 1926 Ts you can run out of gas easily if you are going up a hill with less than a gallon or so in the tank. I remember testing my 1930 Model A pickup truck. I was getting ready to take it to Iceland. The exhaust manifold cracked and the muffler fell down approximately 100 yards from home on the first run. Not a problem -- some wire to keep it from dragging and a very loud return to home. After it got to where it would make multiple trips around the block without quitting (i.e. the gas tank was finally cleaned (actually filtered), the new exhaust manifold was put on it, etc. etc.) then I kept expanding the distance/time. Initially I had my wife run chase with the truck / parts. And then I drove it from Bossier City, LA to Atlanta, GA. And it served me great for a year in Iceland. But it took a while for me to work the bugs out. They used to drive them regularly across the USA. So they can be made reliable.
c. Having a few extra riders can be a big help -- the T pushes much easier with three than with only one person pushing.
7. Have fun and work on driving your T and you will be able to get it very reliable. And the AAA etc. is still a good idea -- if you plan to make it a daily driver. You can "water log" a T out going through a flooded street just like you can flood out a modern car going through a flooded street.
8. Welcome to a very fun hobby.

Hap Tucker 1915 Model T Touring cut off and made into a pickup truck and 1907 Model S Runabout, Sumter SC

I haven't had a breakdown yet, but have run out of gas on steep hills, and have had to accept a tow to get up.In these situations, towing backwards or even in gear wouldn't work, as the tow vehicle was straining as it was.

These short 50 to 100 yard tows haven't seemed to hurt the T, but don't ever let anyone put the rope around the front axle!!! I have roped it around the frame under the radiator. The same place I ratchet the T in place on it's trailer.

It surprised me at a recent national meet, how many people had their T pulled on by the front axle, and put strain on the ball and cup under the sump.

Also, if being towed up a hill, beware of cameras. I ended up in our club magazine under tow. I may not have been smiling, but I did wave!

Larry, the guys are giving good advice. The reason that Ts are not good at being towed has to do with the design of the transmission. There is no real neutral. So, when you pull the parking brake lever halfway back, you're releasing a primitive steel to steel wet clutch thats not really up to the rigors of having the rear wheels turning without the engine running to provide splash lubrication. That's why they're suggesting that in exterme emergencies, you can tow a T with the transmission in high and the spark plugs removed to let the engine freewheel. The best advice is to not tow a T for more than a block or two.

Bob, throw the Warford in neutral and let 'er buck.

Whether you can use the neutral in an aux tranny for very long depends on its design. If the output bearing gets lube without the engine turning, you have no problem. Most trannies are designed, however, to get splash to the rear bearing only when the engine is running. That's the main problem with the T tranny.

One fix in some cases is to overfill the aux tranny, at least for the tow.

I believe towing a T on all fours is safer than just about any trailer, save for maybe a fifth wheel rig. The only thing I've considered adding was remote activation of the T brakes.
rdr

Ralph,don't you think it's odd that you are the only one I know of in the USA who pulls his T around? Most of us are using trailers with proper tie down straps ,DOT approved and I've never seen a wrecked one yet. I darn sure would not tow an original early T as they are just to valuable. Trailer mishaps are mostly caused from over loading or improper loading,tires towing vehicle,etc.

Just because you haven't seen them, Jack...

Have you not noticed all the motorhomes pulling cars on all fours? I learned before I was a teenager about towing on all fours from my Dad, as we towed 8Ns between jobs, with a 1950 F1.

There are trailer spills all the time, for all kinds of reasons. Speed limits in the West are 75 mph, and all the big rigs are doing that. Try pulling your enclosed trailer at just 72 in a stiff, gusting crosswind as those rigs pass, and you will learn new stuff about aerodynamics - as a victim. Crosswinds are a non-event when towing on all fours, as are rapid emergency maneuvers.

A couple of years ago, we lost some HCCA members who were towing their old car in a trailer from SoCalif to Reno for a tour.

I may be the only one towing a T on all fours, and I may also be the only one who drives his T faster than he tows it..

For emergencies, I have AAA, but not AAA+. The last time we towed the T, the tow car crapped out on the I-10, and I unhitched the T, had the tow car hauled to a local parking spot, and we drove the T the last 70 miles home. AAA wanted $400 to haul the tow car all the way. Now if it had been a tow vehicle plus trailer, life would have been a bit more complicated.

BTW, AAA won't tow commercial vehicles under their individual plan. You better check that if you drive a 1 ton.

This one happened to a T owner:



And be sure your tow vehicle is up to the job:

rdr

Pulling anything, on anything or not, behind anything is to be avoided at all costs as far as I'm concerned.

I guess I gave up on trailers when I traded-in my Radio Flyer for a bicycle some 45 years ago.

AAA will not always send a flatbed even if you ask for one. I have Hagerty Insurance, and for an extra $15.00 a year they have a roadservice plan that guarantees a flatbed tow, although I haven't had to test it yet to be sure.

Ricks has it right about towing on the western freeways, the wash from trucks really slings you around. I learned to take the desert roads and avoid using the freeways as much a possible. In California, trailers are suppose to be restricted to 55 m.p.h., and most of the time, I found that 55 was all I could do.
On the desert roads, I held 60 to 65 with no trouble and although the distance was longer, my travel time on a recent 700-mile trip was just minutes longer than if I'd used the highways. Better scenery too.
Now, is it bad practice to tow or winch the T by its front axle? I've been doing that and will stop if you guys say so.
Thanx,
Bob

The theory is that any stress on the front axle by pulling or winching will be harmful to the ball joint on the bottom of the pan and the u-joint housing. I guess if it was a lot of stress for long periods of time,they are probably right. Even tie downs should be attached to the frame,and not the axle. I always cross my tie downs to prevent car from scooting sideways on trailer.

I would never tow a Model T as described by Rick of Surf City. It is just not safe for all concerned... the driver, his passengers, the T or the surrounding traffic. Ignoring for a moment, just the damage that could be caused to the tranny, T's were just not designed to go the speeds necessary (55 and up) to drive on today's highways and if something were to fail at that speed, such as a broken spoke, flat tire, broken tie rod, broken spindle, broken wishbone, broken steering ball, etc., etc., it could really be catastrophic.

I really enjoyed the pictures of trailer mishaps Rick posted to bolster his claim that towing Model T's was a safe practice. I'm sure there would be more photos available of Moderl T towing mishaps, if more people thought like Rick and failed to recognize the dangers inherent in this incredibly unwise practice. I only hope we never see Ricks Model T in among those towing mishap picture. Please reconsider this practice, Rick.

U-Haul has great auto transport trailer which I used to haul my Model T coupe from Maine to Florida. It allowed me to easily and safely attain speeds of 75 MPH with no shimmy or drift. The ride was so smooth that I had to occassionally look back there to be sure the trailer was still there. Check out www.uhaul.com/guide/index.aspx?equipment=towing-autotransport. If I were to ever consider buying a trialer for my Model T, it would be on the order of the U-haul auto transport trailer. Jim

I had heard of a Maxwell that was tied down at the frame in an enclosed trailer. Upon arrival at the meet, the car had been shaken to pieces (brass lamps, etc. had bounced off their mounts) because (supposedly) its springs weren't able to flex.

I also know a number of folks who use unsprung trailers (no suspension - the tires are the springs). Those type of trailers bother me.

Thanks for all of the good advice. Sounds like towing a Model T is something to be avoided at all costs.

Larry Mann

I have towed my Model T for thousands of miles around the South Island of New Zealand. My trailer, manufactured in 1962, just sits on the road with no drama, but I seldom do over 50mph, because I don't think a T windscreen was designed for modern speeds.

I use heavy duty tie downs front and rear (off frame), with thinner, but still strong tie downs, going under the car and through the running board brackets holding the car side to side.

I have had one blow out, but apart from the sound, the trailer just carried on smoothly on it's remaining three wheels.

Good trailer + Good strong (multiple)tie downs + conservative speeds = happy and safe towing.

I have towed a lot of trailers many miles, and I have to say that nothing beats attention to safety, proper loading and securing of the load, and experience. I often see inexperienced people towing in the wrong lanes, at too high speeds with improperly loaded and secured loads. One wrong move, and the tail starts to wag the dog. Then the load shifts, and/or the driver hits the brakes, and it's all over.

As for towing a U-Haul at 75mph, it is legal in some states, however every U-Haul that I have ever seen is marked in several places that it is not to be towed over 45mph. It's in their rental agreement too. That is a big CYA for U-Haul, although nobody pays it any attention. The dynamics of trailer towing, and how it reacts to tow vehicle input, changes drastically between 45 and 50mph. Kind of like when the Bonneville racers say that the steering changes, or works backwards when you are going over 200mph!

Jeff, you are right. There is a 45mph suggested speed limit on the drivers's side fender of the U-Haul trailer and I did try driving the U-Haul auto trailer at 45mph for about the first ten miles or so, but judging by the many rear ender close calls, honking horns and dirty looks I got in that short distance, I discovered it was more dangerous to go that slow on the Interstate Highways, where the average speed was 75 and 80 mph, as opposed to keeping up with the traffic flow. After about a hundred miles of gradually increasing my speed and seeing what the loaded trailer would do, I finally discovered that I could easily and safely keep up with the traffic flow and thus, drove 1,500 miles from Maine to Florida doing pretty much whatever speed I chose without incident. The trailers are extremely well built and sturdy with great suspension and anti sway properties. As a precaution, though, I did stop often about every 50 miles, at every other rest stop and at each fuel refill to check the trailer and my tiedown straps to be sure they did not loosen. Also, prior to setting out, I completely covered my Model T in several layers of 6 mil visqueen (plastic sheeting) secured by several rolls of duct tape to protect it from rain and road debris.

I actually think U-Haul is irresponsible and creating a road hazard by setting such a low speed limit on their trailers in order to "CYA" (Cover Your ---). God only knows how many accidents have been caused by drivers who insisted on going so slow on the interstate in trying to adhere to U-Hauls 45mph speed linit out of fear that the trailers were not designed to go any faster than that. It could also be suggested that such a slow speed limit would add time to the haul and for U-Haul, time is money. The longer you keep the trailer, the more money they make. Jim

If you have a big enough truck and a good trailer, you can tow a T anywhere without a problem. You need trailer brakes that are applied when the truck brakes are applied.

Several provlems with towing a T by the axle. The transmission does not get lubrication nor the brakes. You would need someone to sit in the T and apply the brakes to stop without hitting the tow vehicle. That is almost impossible. The only tow acceptable without a trailer is a very slow pull to get the T started if you cannot with the starter or crank. This would be only a few feet at less than 5 mph. A very long rope is used and a signal given to the other driver to stop as stop very slowly as soon as the T starts.
Norm

Almost as smart as moving your T without driving it!

It's been many years since I've rented from Uhaul, so I don't remember; do they show you the empty weight and max gross weight of the trailer? Those things are built as heavy as they can make them. My guess is that many of them are near the max towed weight of the tow vehicle when empty. Add a ton of cargo, and the rig is sure to be grossly overloaded.

I doubt if you would notice the added weight much in the flatlands, except for acceleration, but you sure don't want an extra 1000 lb or so of dead weight west of Nebraska.

I saw a new 18' enclosed Carson trailer, OTOH, with a wheel so toed out that the tire was worn out in just 5,000 miles. It was so toed out you could see it almost at a glance.

If you have to haul a T, one option is a truck or van. Hertz/Penske has a rule against hauling cars in their vans, however. Dunno why, other than lack of tiedowns.

rdr
rdr

Now you're talking! That beats any silly trailer or towing device I've ever seen.

Seth,Vaction pictures on a T forumn?:>) Wow!

Just kidding.!

I have to say that is about the dummest thing I have ever seen. Whoever done that I hope is unable to reproduce.

I have towed trailers at my job with electric brakes and found them a pain to keep adjusted so they wouldnt skid.
The car trailer i have uses the surge system and even towing it with my f150 with 300 I6,I had no problems useing common sense and reasonable speed hauling a 26 touring. But the key is common sense.I had that sucker tied down with a 3 inch nylon rachet strap at the back,a 5/16 log chain and rachet binder at the front.
And kept the speed down.

The U-haul auto trailer, or any good trailer, for that matter, is well balanced so that the downward weight pressing on the tongue is at a minumim. Furthermore, there is enough length on the auto trailer to allow for moving the car forward to increase the weight on the tongue or back to decrease the weight on the tongue. If you wanted to, you could make the weight almost zero, but that would not be wise. You want just enough weight on the tongue to keep the nose of the trailer from rising when going over a bump, but not so much as to cause the rear suspension of the towing vehicle to be burdened. Jim

The advice given by james R Patrick is deadly. The centre of gravity of any fully loaded trailer mus be ahead of the trailer axle[s]. Also the aerodynamic centre of the trailer must be ahead of the axle. The nearest approximation to get there is to have 15% or more of the gross trailer weight on the tongue. If this unloads the front axle of the tow vehicle, you must use Equaliser Bars. Any other configuration WILL give results of the horror pictures. Fifth wheel trailers behave different.

I'm sure glad I didn't know all these bad things about U-Haul trailers until after I got all the T-stuff I bought in Missouri back home to Michigan. The enclosed one my son and I rented didn't have the 45mph speed limit on the fenders although we get anywhere near 70mph with it and we used an Expedition to tow it. No problems all the way home.

Arie Bakker. Please re-read my post. Had I said what you implied I said, I agree that it would be deadly advice, but I don't believe I said anything about arranging the center of gravity of the load on or behind the axle. As a matter of fact, while I said it would be possible to balance the load out to zero by moving it forward or back, I made a point of saying that it would be unwise to arrange the load so that the weight on the tongue would be zero, which is another way of saying that the center of gravity should be ahead of the axle with a certain amount of weight on the tongue, but not so much as to weigh down the rear end of the towing vehicle. Although I am no trailer engineer, I can use my common sense to determine that, if a poorly designed trailer has so much weight on the tongue so as to push down the rear end, it can have a detrimental effect on the steering and handling of the towing vehicle by lifting up the front wheels and bottoming out the suspension of the rear wheels.

All I know is the U-Haul auto trailer worked for me and I would not recommend it to my fellow Model T'ers if I thought it was "deadly", since I successfully towed a 1926 Model T Coupe 1,500 miles, cross country from Maine to Florida, on one of these trailers, night and day, through mountains, New Jersey/New York City traffic, in all kinds of weather, without incident, which does qualify me, somewhat, to pass on what worked in my situation, since that is the nature of this thread. Jim

James; Sorry if the item re: trailer load distribution was offensive, I wanted to be explicit about the requirements of loading, they are not optional, they are laws of physics, to pevent uncontrollable sway. I did not mean to criticize but to be emphatic. I have towed thousands of miles coast to coast with heavy travel trailers all very pleasurable. When we used to go to Sun And Fun Fly in at Lakeland We stayed in Bartow and had breakfast in Mulberry, neat place. Sorry, age has taken my Plane, motorcycle, finance my T. ARIE

Norm, there are some similiarities here!
Bob

BTW, the trailer is a Bulldog brand trailer, made in Chehalis, WA, and it tows like a dream.
Bob

Thanks Arie. No offense taken. It is always a good thing to be passionate about safety when stressing something as important as load distribution on a trailer and it can't be emphasized enough or, God forbid, one of us will wind up in that collection of towing mishap photos. If just one person's life was saved by your advice it served its' purpose. Thanks again. Jim

Seth. Wow! I have never seen such an irresponsible towing setup as the photo you posted of the SUV pulling the travel trailer. The back axle has bottomed out and the front wheels are so high that it looks like they would lift off the ground at every hint of a bump. I wonder what failed first...the tailgate or the rear suspension. Incredible! I hope the driver and his family made it to their destination and had it pointing in the right direction whentever he hit a bump, because when those front wheels lift up there is no directional control. Is this guy a neighbor of yours or did you just happen upon this arrangement? Jim

I travel in style don't I? A friend forwarded this one to me. Though I'm somewhat of a fan of the General (since I can fix them in my sleep), I always thought the S-10 Blazers/GMC Jimmys were just too squirrelly all by themselves!

This contraption is from Utah - I'd have figured that it would have been created in the rural South!

Seth

Seth,"stupidity knows no bounds".

Seth. The gooseneck hitch setup you posted is of the Reese Hitch, made in Arlington Texas. www.reese-hitches.com. Needless to say, it was not designed to fit on an SUV tailgate as pictured. Jim

I kinda liked the chains added to hold up the tailgate!

If that swingset chain and grade 2 bolt can be trusted to hold a child, it certainly can be trusted to hold up that tailgate and the 15,000 lbs. it is supporting. Jim

Hey Seth most us southerners know better than to do something that stupid!We like sunshine and peach icecream to much to do that!

My grandfather made his own custom trailer...the ramps & drive-up rails are ~6" wide. The body of the trailer is only ~5-6" off the ground...very low slung and stable. I 'chain' it down by the axles...pretty solid. I'll try and post a pic later