Well I aint a rocket scientist.Nor am I a shade tree mechanic. But I play 1 in the back yard.
I have taken a couple transmissions apart the past week or so and I had a bushing set in the bag just screaming to get in the gears.
I had a brain "storm" and got to studieing this situation.I then loaded some stuff in the truck and went to see a machinst freind.I ask about the old bushings to see if I had the right idea to remove the old 1's and he said yes that would work.So I ask about how to size them.He showed me some reamers and such and after looking things over a while I then mentioned what I had thought of during the brain storm and he said,"why yea that would work "
So I went home,and 7 hours later,with some long breaks in there and a couple pain pills I now have what I think is a very servicable transmission.
I started out easy.I pressed out the old triple gear bushings and pressed in new 1's. I then got my brake cylinder hones out and a oil can with kerosene in it.I rubbed off the pins to slick them up with some emery paper,then honed each gear to fit the pins.once i got done I put a old bushing on felt it,then put on the gear with new bushing,wow what a difference.
Then I decided to do the largest bushing next.I didnt see a way with what I had to safley press out the old 1.So I used a die grinder with a burr on it and cut a groove in the old bushing,then just closed it up with a chisel and out it went.I then honed the new bushing till it fit nicely.The middle drum was the worst 1.It was sloppy. Not anymore.
To shorten the story.I installed all the bushings,then honed them to fit.The triple gears were a bugger to get back together till I read the book and came up with a way to do it.Arthritis must not have made it to hands back when that book was wrote.
But anyhow,I still need to put the bushing in the piece with the clutch spring on it.But the drums and everything turn smooth and feel snug,no slop.
With it laying flywheel down when I turn it I do hear a little gear noise.But I fiqure when it is all back together it should be ok.
I doubt this was the "right" way to do the job, but when I started i fiqured if it failed I was just out of 40 bucks worth of bushings and some time and I have other transmissions to rebuild if need be.
Well now Mack, If y'all done what ya said and that 'ol transmisson say 'growl.. its 'cause tham gears been kick'en back fer too long with warn bush'ns and the like. I say DRIVE IM and sees what happens. Shoot you know thet ole Ford gonna drive jes fine.
Mack, I'm no expert at rebuilding Model T transmissions, but I've been doing some reading on the subject. When you say there is no slop in the bushings, be sure they are not too tight. For example, the Ford manual says that the triple gear bushings should have a RUNNING clearance of .002 - that actually means a "cold" clearance of around .004 - .005. A few weeks ago, with the help of an experienced T friend, I tried my hand at reaming triple gear bushings, and I was surprised to see how loose they need to be in order to have the correct clearance. I've heard stories of folks who had to pull and re-do engines because those bearings were too tight, and they almost immediately welded to the pins.
Hopefully, someone with more experience on the subject will step in if I am wrong, but I feel it is better to be safe than sorry.
Bob
I feel like there is that much clearance.Once I got everything lined up and it fell in place,everything turns freely and so forth.I can spin the gears with my hand and they dont stop quick. Before I took this thing apart,the drums would wobble side to side.Now they dont but they turn smooth.
I read a little on the net and apparently honeing bushings is a viable option in other applications.
Mack,
Bob is correct. I believe you must have at least .004" clearance, and I recommend and do .006" on my triple gear bushings. I also make sure my triple gear pins are within .0005" of round or I replace them. You must accurately measure the parts to determine the clearance. You can not do it by feel.
I started observing T transmission rebuilds 12 plus years ago. The people I observed doing the rebuilds were setting the transmissions up by feel or to the .002" spec. Virtually all of the transmissions had wear. Many of them were not just noisy but very noisy after the rebuild. I could describe two of them as (extremely noisy) or thrashing machines.
I observed the (local) trend to set them up looser and they got quieter and became more reliable. I know of a local club member that had a triple gear pin break. The California shop that repaired the transmission stated that they felt the triple gear bushing clearance was to tight and the long (1 hour) he spent climbing a mountain in low pedal crystalized the triple gear pin and caused it to break.
In the past four years I have built or helped build several T transmissions. I have been involved in mixing and matching worn parts. The successful and quit transmissions have all had the minimum clearances specified in the first paragraph above. This does not make me an expert though. It is just my experience to date.
There is a previous and recent post you may want to look at as well “Planetary Disaster!!”.
I believe you are building a stock Model T, so please take a look at the last post(s) first.
Good Luck,
Terry
Well I have a couple more transmissions.I can get the parts and go through 1 of them correctly if need be.I just decided that I would give this a shot go or bust.WhenI say I honed to fit,I used white lithum grease as a prelube when I felt like I had it close so that takes up a good bit of space.I think 30 wieght oil uses .004.I later after typeing the post I went and stood the thing up horizonaly and gave things a twist.Could hardly hear anything with my head against it.Still not a accurate method,nothing supporting the back end ,but I still have a good gut feeling that this thing will work.
When I did my first transmission, I did not know about clearances. I knew about timing the triple gears and thought that was all a guy needed to know. Now I know about coefficents of expansion and the bronze bushing expands more than the iron peg. That situation will lock a warm transmission solid.
I also know the secret to driving a Model T is to keep your feet off all pedals as much as possible.
I loaded my speciman in the truck this morning and went a few miles down the road to see a freind,Heath Hahn.He started restoreing T's back in the 50's.I had went down there last week to see about getting that #### drum thing off.Anyhow,I ask him to look things over.He looked it over,turned everything and said "good job" I ask about the noise,he said put some oil on the gears,that little bit would go away.Dry gears make a noise.So I feel a little better about things now.
Please understand I am takeing note of the explainations you all are giveing me.I understand I took a risk..So dont think your advice is wasted,just think of it as going in my notebook.
I thought long and hard about this before I risk 40 bucks worth of bushings.But I enjoy learning,I also enjoy the feeling of success I get when 1 of my "bright" ideas works.I feel like alot times we allow this 100 year technology to intimdate us.Alot of folkes that bought and drove these cars when new didnt even have electricty,much less access to machine shops and big check books.So it was at that time a big exspense just to get some bushings and sandpaper.And then a weekend of beating bushings out with a hammer and doing the best they could.
So I fiqured here I am with a press,drills and hones and plenty of time.Why not.Besides,us hard heads learn from our mistakes.
One thing that you want to take into account with the transmission bushings, is to make sure that all the bushings are true with the centerline of the drum/shaft. It was discovered way back when, that if the bushings were hand reamed, it could create vibration and power loss problems. That is why KRW made the fixture for reaming the drums.
Lacking a fixture, you can chuck it in a lathe and ream them that way.
Before you put everything together, Mack, you might have your machinist friend check the trueness with a dial indicator---it might save some frustration.
I had a transmission that I was dialing in, trying to get the output shaft as true as possible, and had everything trued up in a lathe, and everything looked good. When I put the transmission all together, it had about .015 runout. I took it back apart, and had everything checked and trued again. I put it together again, and it still had runout. I finally found that the bushings in the drive plate, although in good shape, and a good fit on the shaft, were reamed slightly off. When it was apart, it was OK, but when it was bolted to the brake drum, it pulled to the side, and made the output shaft wobble. Frustrating!!!
Bob
One of the toughest jobs in restoring a T transmission is to secure alignment on the three transmission bushings, the two in the brake drum and the one in the tailshaft. I know of some old time rebuilders that simply left the middle bushing alone or removed it completely during a rebuild.