Clutch Kinda Slips in High Gear

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2005: Clutch Kinda Slips in High Gear
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brent in 10-uh-C on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 12:40 pm:

I am working on a '26 Touring that has a strong Low Gear when the pedal is depressed however the High Gear is really sluggish to engage --and slips on a slight incline. When you look at the 3 screws, they really seem "low" in the fingers already and I am not so sure that another 1/2 round (or more) is going to do because there doesn't seem like much to hold the screws in adjustment since it appears to below the slot of the adjustment screw. Am I panic-ing??

If not, what are my options??





Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Daily on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 12:48 pm:

I had the same problem. When I adjusted my screws one half turn it made a hugh differance. Give it one half turn, you can always turn them back. DO NOT DROP ANYTHING IN THE TRANY. Use rags to plug holes if you have to remove cotter pins etc.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brent in 10-uh-C on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 12:53 pm:


quote:

When I adjusted my screws one half turn it made a hugh differance.





...but were your screws that far in?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jims@netonecom.net on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 12:53 pm:

The biggest problem when these screws are turned in this far is that the three pins that these screws push against are allmost out of the drive plate. If you can back one of these screws out enough to see if the pin is sticking out of the drive plate some, you might get another turn on these screws or make three longer screws using long set screws with the same thread.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brent in 10-uh-C on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 12:57 pm:


quote:

...or make three longer screws using long set screws with the same thread




Any "downside" to doing this?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Vitko on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 01:09 pm:

The dive plate spring pushing the plates in is often to low a pressure. I find about seventy five percent are not serviceable. They are available at a twenty percent increase in strength, and can be replaced without removing the engine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Green - So Cal on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 03:21 pm:

Soon after I acquired my latest T the clutch screws needed to be tightened since it would slip and chug upon shifting. Mine, like Brent's, now have the clutch adjustment screws nearing the end of their physical adjustment. I was under the impression that once the clutch screws are screwed in as far as they could go and the clutch still slipped, that I was due for new clutch disks. Am I incorrect here?

Mike Green


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Noel Denis Chicoine, MD on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 04:47 pm:

A clutch spring compressor can be fashioned from an old transmission ball cap and a outer hub flange. You can remove the spring and replace it with a stronger one by pulling the hogshead, without removing the engine. If that doesn't help, you've really only purchased a new spring that you can use on your clutch rebuild.
Noel


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 06:25 pm:

Brent, the cotter pin is missing in your example there. I hope it is because you just removed it.

The important part is whether the pegs that contact that screw are sticking through the back plate.

If they are, adjust the screw and insure that external link is properly adjusted to let the clutch fully engage.

If they are not, pull the engine and add a disk or two to the high speed clutch pack.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brent in 10-uh-C on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 07:38 pm:


quote:

Paul wrote: The drive plate spring pushing the plates in is often to low a pressure. I find about seventy five percent are not serviceable. They are available at a twenty percent increase in strength, and can be replaced without removing the engine.



So are you thinking the spring has just worn and I need to replace it? Is Snyder's T-3340 what I need?




quote:

James wrote: Brent, the cotter pin is missing in your example there. I hope it is because you just removed it.



I DID remove the cotter pin to take a clearer picture.




quote:

The important part is whether the pegs that contact that screw are sticking through the back plate. If they are, adjust the screw and insure that external link is properly adjusted to let the clutch fully engage. If they are not, pull the engine and add a disk or two to the high speed clutch pack.



I ain't really following you on this one. Can you elaborate on how to check if they are/aren't sticking through the back plate?

Also, Noel & Paul mention replacing the spring w/o removing the engine by removing the hogshead. Can someone outline this in detail, --and give me some probability on this correcting my problem.

Due to time constraints and etc., I really do not have the time to pull the engine. The scary part (for me) is that I will have a full load of passengers in this car in two weeks at Grand Rapids (and I definitely do not want to pull the engine in the motel parking lot) so tell me what I am up against here please.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 08:27 pm:

What clutch are you using?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brent in 10-uh-C on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 08:33 pm:


quote:

What clutch are you using?




I dunno! This was a running/driving car when I bought it. I know no history though.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Vitko on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 09:40 pm:

I had an engine that started slipping the clutch going from low to high. I checked the transmission by pulling the cover and checking the distance, ( as i recall 13/16) between the rear face of the drive plate and the sliding fork ring. This equals about 2 inches of spring compression. I tightened the fingers one turn with no improvement. Discovered that if I dropped the throttle just as I went from low to high the high would engage without slipping. Drove that car two years until I decided to do some thing about it. Turns out the front bushing on the brake drum was not pushed in the extra 1/4 inch to clear the curve on the main shaft. the transmission was set up that way with the clutch plate drum slowly working loose and changing the pressure on the clutch plates.

The point is try driving the car but when you shift from low to high, drop the throttle and let the clutch engage. If it works, drive it!! I still drive my T using that method. Its much easier on the transmission then simply leaving the throttle in one position and letting the clutch out. I wind to a higher RPM in low gear, and the jump from low to high is smooth using that method.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Vitko on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 10:11 pm:

I forgot to mention. As I recall you have a Z head. My T with an after market spring, A Z head, everything set up right, Will slip the transmission low to high if I do not drop the throttle between shifts. For me its become a habit, and I forgot about it. Kind of like driving a stick shift, You lower the throttle between shifts. Unless you are drag racing!!!!!!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alan Woolf on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 10:20 pm:

Brent,
Your clutch adjusters look pretty good compared to some I have seen. As you have discovered a half a turn of adustment makes a big difference in the clutch adjustment. If the car is shifting well and there are no odd noises from the transmission I would drive it.

Alan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brent in 10-uh-C on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - 08:33 pm:

Well, I wound up turning it in 1 full round on each --and now have a great high gear. The thing I am most impressed with is the difference a Z head makes. Whew!! We were on our second voyage today when at speed (about 40) the timing gear decided to disinegrate. Called the guys at the shop and they came and trailered us back. I'll eventually get all the bugs worked out of this thing.

Alan, I never did tell you but your condensor was a true work of art. You guys were on top of the world with that piece. Congrats!! Did you show the guys here?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Vitko on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - 08:50 pm:

Bet you had a fiber timeing gear!!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brent in 10-uh-C on Thursday, June 28, 2007 - 08:13 am:

\quote(Paul wrote:
Bet you had a fiber timeing gear!!!!)

Yep, there was actually a noise ever since I got it. Guess I'll drop the inspection pan too and "go fishin'".




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce Peterson on Thursday, June 28, 2007 - 08:40 am:

Those fiber timing gears have no place in a Model T. The one in my '15 (not installed by me) disintigrated just like yours.

Be sure you get either the aluminum or bronze replacement Brent.

Royce


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Vitko on Thursday, June 28, 2007 - 01:58 pm:

You might want to back blow through the oil funnel, and rinse out as best you can on the transmission. A good outside oiler would be more insurance along with a transmission cover screen.
That engine should run better with a new gear.
Good luck!! Paul


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brent in 10-uh-C on Thursday, June 28, 2007 - 03:13 pm:

Royce, this is in the car you saw on the trailer at Ron's that Saturday y'all were there. I ordered an aluminum gear and it should be here in the AM.

The car has an outside oil line, and I plan on taking the inspection cover off and do a though cleaning because it made a mess out of the gear. Although it is not clear in the picture, the gear was really old looking and "dry rotted" in appearance.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce Peterson on Thursday, June 28, 2007 - 05:56 pm:

That was a pretty nice looking T Brent. Hopefully you will have the bugs worked out soon so it runs as good as it looks!

I agree on the Z head, its the best improvement anybody can make to their "T".

Royce


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker on Thursday, June 28, 2007 - 06:03 pm:

Brent -- When I rebuilt my T's engine, I used an aluminum gear -- for about 10 miles. It was so noisy I couldn't stand it. I went right home and ordered a nylon one from Performance T Parts. It's quiet as a church mouse, and I have put several thousand miles on it with no problems.

Mike.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Calif. High Desert on Friday, June 29, 2007 - 12:16 am:

Mike, do you drive a gen or alt with that nylon gear?
rdr


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