Sales tax on my model t in illinois

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2005: Sales tax on my model t in illinois
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Anderson on Tuesday, July 24, 2007 - 06:28 pm:

got a certified letter today from the illinois department of revenue for 1,640 .oo for sales tax on my model t after i got over the shock i went to the dmv talked to the lady looked at the chart for sales tax any car 11 years old or older under 15,000.00 25.00 sales tax so what in the heck are they doing to me ?Has any one else in illinois had this problem?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Anderson on Tuesday, July 24, 2007 - 06:34 pm:

i only paid 9,500 foy my model t


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky on Tuesday, July 24, 2007 - 06:45 pm:

Don't know about Illinois but Texas just started a new taxing method for used cars this year. Before, you paid sales tax on the listed sales price declared on the title transfer papers. NOW, you pay sales tax on the VALUE as determined by the average retail. It makes no difference that you may have bought the car from an individual and got a bargain at $5000 less. You still pay the higher value rate. The only way around it is to have the car appraised.

Illinois may be doing something similar.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Poane on Tuesday, July 24, 2007 - 06:56 pm:

I bought a Model T from Canada a few years ago and never registered it, anywhere. A year and a half later I got a bill for $800 from the Maryland State. They said because it came across the border I still owe the tax. If you buy an item in another state that does not have a sales tax and you claim it on your income tax, you must pay tax on it.

Technically, there are three legal taxes: excise, import and export tax. All others are illegal. The truth is all over the net - learned first hand the hard way! There is a great DVD out called America: freedom to fascism. Check it out on the web. Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By RDupree on Tuesday, July 24, 2007 - 07:03 pm:

I don't know when it started, but this is directly from the secretary of state's web site-

PRIVATE OWNER: If you buy your vehicle from someone other than a dealer, within 20 days of purchase the Secretary of State’s office must receive the following:


Application for Certificate of Title, license plates or transfer of current plates.
Properly signed Certificate of Title in the seller’s name.
Payment of title/license plate fees.
Payment of Vehicle Use Tax. This tax is based on the model year of the vehicle if the selling price is less than $15,000. If the selling price is $15,000 or more, the tax is based on the selling price. An RUT-50 tax form must be submitted along with the correct tax payment. The check must be made out to Illinois Department of Revenue. If you junk your vehicle, you are exempt from this tax; however, you must obtain a Junking Certificate from the Secretary of State.

The key here is the valuation. The 'RUT-50' tax form will tell you that if the car is worth $15k, then you owe $750 in sales taxes. If it is worth $14,999, then you owe $25. Makes sense doesn't it?

The bill for the sales taxes is coming from from the department of revenue, not the secretary of state, so you will probably STILL be billed for the extra sales taxes. The RUT-50 form says-

The purchase price (or fair market value) of a vehicle determines which tax table to
use. The purchase price is the value given for a vehicle and may be in the form of
money, credit, property, or service. When there is no stated purchase price, such as
in the case of a gift or even trade, the fair market value should be used. The fair
market value may be obtained from a licensed dealer.

So, like in Texas, you may have to have it appraised by a licensed dealer to prove that it is worth less than a freshly restored show car.

By the way, this is the schedule of sales taxes for 'valuable' cars-

Purchase price (or fair market value) ($) Tax due ($)
15,000 to 19,999.99 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 750
20,000 to 24,999.99 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1,000
25,000 to 29,999.99 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1,250
30,000 or more . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1,500

Ron Dupree


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim on Tuesday, July 24, 2007 - 08:02 pm:

Your lucky that you don't live in Massachusetts. They charge you "book value" regardless of what you paid for the car. I paid 400% sales tax on the last car I bought, and 50% tax on the one before that. They look in a book (probably blank pages in it) and come up with a number. Every T I have gone in there with has been "booked" at a different amount. And after you get the "how do we know you didn't steal this" speech, you pay them whatever they want and there is nothing you can do about it.

FYI - MA is also prosecuting store owners for selling gas and milk too cheaply.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Niekamp on Tuesday, July 24, 2007 - 09:29 pm:

Well Tim,

I know he's not the secratary of state, but still the same I would blame that idiot governor we have here in Illinois (Blow-joe-vitch) I'm not much happier with Mr. white either.

Oh well I guess all politicians are dipsticks and here Illinois they like to bleed us dry, but what state don't?

I have went around and around with the state on insurance. I have ALWAYS had insurnace on everything I own and they keep sending out these stupid "Proof of Insurance" forms and to see if you had insurance on a certian date on a certian vehicle, if you do NOT send it back in they will suspend your license plate on the vehicle in question.

The IDOT told me that the state sends out 5,000 of these forms each month at random (who pays for this postage?)They must be keeping me at the top of that list for I get one for one of my licensed vechicles every couple of months and one time I didn't return it and you guess it, they suspensed that license plate.

Well anyhow, you are correct (or was less than a year ago) on the taxes, $25.00 is what I paid for my 26 Tudor last October, then again I only paid $3500 for the rust bucket.

$65.00 for title/transfer
$78.00 for passenger car/B truck plates (yearly)
$25.00 for antique plates (5 years)

you know they have to have some kind of scam to keep our Governor flying back on forth to Chicago everyday.

Sorry that was not nice!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Maurits on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 07:45 am:

And don forget the other wonderful Maryland rule. If you own a vehicle (bought & paid for) and move into MD from another state, you have to pay 5% sales tax on the ASSESSED value of that vehicle...even after paying any sales taxes in the other state when you purchased it initially. REAL nice, huh?

BUT, one nice thing is you only have to get a safety inspection when you initially tag the vehicle...that's it. No yearly inspections, and no safety inspection on antique/classic vehicles ever.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Barker on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 05:01 pm:

On the 4th July, this site celebrated your Independence Day - and someone added the text of your Declaration of Independence. This listed the alleged crimes of oppression of our King George III. Seems to me that you are still oppressed by a George!
Here in England, there is NO tax on old cars unless you make a huge capital gain (so not relevant to Model T owners). We do have an annual safety check (about $85) and we must have insurance to drive ($200). That's it......
......apart from paying $7.50 per gallon for gas.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Anderson on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 05:14 pm:

Well i just had the car apraised today and guess what it is valued at 9,500 exactly what i paid for it so the ladies at the dmv god bless them faxed everything down to springfield and now i have to wait a couple days for a answer .Maybe i'm paying for steak dinner for the governor i hope they choke on it lol well the internal revenue must think i have a show car yeah right its a 1919 touring with 88 years of dents on it .I'll tell you what if i end up having to pay this stupid bill me and my t are goig to sringfield and i'm going raise a stink .i'll notify the media and ask fellow t owners to help protest what else can i do?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 06:42 pm:

When I read that part about going to Springfield, I thought of the movie "The Charge of the Model T's". that would be a site to see a bunch of Model T's charging to the capitol. :-) Do T's come in bunches or gaggles?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey on Thursday, July 26, 2007 - 12:55 am:

No, T's come in flocks--Didn't you hear what the birds said when some model T's drove by??
CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP!!
:-)
Heh Heh Heh
T'
David D.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Lodge - St Louis MO on Thursday, July 26, 2007 - 09:54 am:

Mark, there's a book about collective names for animals, such as flock, gaggle, herd, etc. (My favorite is a murmurration of starlings.) People have also made up new ones, tongue firmly in cheek. I would suggest "a rattle of Model T's."


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave on Thursday, July 26, 2007 - 10:04 am:

I to need to transfer a 17 T tile in Illinois and after reading your post I also did some checking with the local license place. I was told the state was sending these notices out hit or miss because of the hot rodders abusing the system. (A $20,000.00 car declared for $200.00 as a example) The lady said all I needed if this happened was a bill of sale with a picture of the vehicle sent back to the Illinois IRS. Hope this works?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Hager on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 10:23 am:

Just got back from the DMV (small town). Did all the paper work for my new 1914 touring. No problems. $25.00 sales tax. Discussed your issue and was told if I recieve one of these, just bring my Bill of Sale and they would take care of it. They also said it was to stop the hotrodders who try to title a new built hotrod as an antique. Best of luck!! Mike Hager Illinois


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Money on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 02:02 pm:

Mike, I am glad to hear they are trying to stop that. Nothing frosts me more, than seeing a freshly finished T bucket or the like with antique plates on it. Most do not have one antique piece on the car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chuck Hoffman on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 02:18 pm:

A guy in our town got caught trying to license a kit car as an original. Consequently, the DMV is being extra vigilant regarding old cars. Made life harder for the rest of us. We can also thank Boyd Coddington for bringing attention to this issue by doing the same type of stuff.....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Anderson on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 05:44 pm:

Yesterday called springfeild about the 1640,00 sales tax bill they sent me about a week ago .Seems the apraisal i faxed to them did the trick.But to all that are going to purchase a model t or any other vintage automobile better have a bill of sale when they aplly for there title and license plates the state is cracking down on the liars who can't seem to tell truth about how much they paid for there vehicle!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Vitko on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 06:39 pm:

Hmmmmmmmm, Guess I had not better bitch about Oregon, there is no sales tax. Costcos along the Columbia do a great business in Oregon from Washington shoppers. DMV does require a Vin number check on vehicles titled from out of state.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Goldberg on Tuesday, August 07, 2007 - 01:07 pm:

Plenty to bitch about in California.

Don't know if you've seen it, but Texaco is putting on a very cool online contest right now. Check it out and enter:

www.TexacoCaroftheDecades.com

More information by emailing info@carofthedecades.com or contacting me through my profile


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Tuesday, August 07, 2007 - 08:03 pm:

If you move to Maryland from another state, you don't pay Sales Tax, you pay 5 % Title Tax on that vehicle to get a Maryland registration. That is still normally less than the fee to inspect your vehicle and have it pass that inspection. If they can't find anything wrong, they will still have to adjust your headlights for $30 or $40 extra. A legal crime.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 12:50 am:

I just bought a car (not T) from my sister in Colorado. The "sales tax" was 6% of market value. All I had to do was take the car to a safety inspection station (Annual in Texas) and have them check the serial number against the title. They didn't even want to touch the car. I asked if they wanted to check the lights, horn, or drive it to check the brakes. Nope. They slapped on a windshield sticker and gave me a green slip for the transfer. The inspection fee was $12.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By torpedobob on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 11:23 am:

well, I had a similar but different problem - I live overseas, and to ship my car from Ohio to XCanada, where I am from, it had to be registered...so I registered it in my brothers name. Biggest mistake of my life - I am out of a car and haven't spoken to my brother in four years....and this is after I paid him in advance for all taxes owed! Total $20,000+ down the drain. Never mix cars and relatives.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tom evans on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 07:01 pm:

Your right, there is plenty to bitch from the california side of things. Bought a 1915 Model T in Chicago. Unfortunately, Illinois is one of six states that the state of california has collecting their sales taxes. After this I still had to pay DMV fees and have the vehicle Vin I.D.'ed and weighed. (Weighed because it is a pick-up which is considered a commercial veicle in California.) Enough hoops to avoid any further purchases in Illinois!! Oh,the museum had to pay there taxes also.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Phil Mino on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 07:29 pm:

In California, you only pay the weight fees if you register as a commercial vehicle and get the commercial plates. Check the California vehicle code with respect to weight fees. Unless things have changed recently, pre- 1937 vehicles are exempt from weight fees:

Weight Fee for Pre-1937 Year Model Vehicles
9401. (a) Motor vehicles manufactured in or prior to 1936, are exempted from the payment of the weight fees provided for in Section 9400.

(b) Notwithstanding subdivision (a), any person who owns and operates a commercial vehicle manufactured in or prior to 1936 which is registered to such person, may pay the appropriate weight fees, and the department shall issue license plates of the same type as are issued to vehicles which are required to pay weight fees for such vehicles.

Added Ch. 622, Stats. 1980. Effective January 1, 1981.


There have been instances when I have had to point this out to local DMV employees. Even the assistant manager of the local office was clueless.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tom evans on Thursday, August 09, 2007 - 07:03 pm:

Phil;
Thanks for the info. There was no weight fees since it is exempt. However to get a clear california title it had to be weighed so that the gross vehicle weight appears on the title. For those non-california T owners, all pick-up trucks are registerd as commercial vehicles.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Cox on Thursday, August 09, 2007 - 07:20 pm:

As I recall back when that change came about in the 60's you could register non commercial but then couldn't carry anything in the pickup bed. Nothing Nada Not one thing or you would be ticketed and have to register commercial. This applied to the itybity pickups. I had a Ford Falcon pickup at the time.


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