Champion Spark Plugs, Part Number & Stock Number

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2005: Champion Spark Plugs, Part Number & Stock Number
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David_Cockey on Thursday, September 27, 2007 - 10:09 pm:

Champion uses two sets of spark plug "numbers". One is the number which appears on the plug. The other is the stock number which is what a parts store needs for ordering.

Champion X plugs are stock number 425
Champion 25 plugs are stock number 525, NAPA part number CHA525

Best price for new Champion X plugs is periodically on eBay at around $75 for 4.

Champion RV17YC plugs, a modern plug which doesn't fit a Model T, is stock number 25. So if your dealer orders a Champion 25 plug he will probably get a RV17YC.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky on Friday, September 28, 2007 - 12:34 am:

Great info Dave. Thanks.

Watch the Champion X plugs you get off Ebay. They may be a composite assembly of an X insulator and who knows what for a base. The ones I got were Fordson bases.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce on Friday, September 28, 2007 - 09:03 am:

Ken,

I think David is referring to the plugs sold by this vendor:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FORD-MODEL-T-CHAMPION-X-SPARK-PLUGS-4-NEW-OEM-STY LE_W0QQitemZ140161564466QQihZ004QQcategoryZ34205QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZVie wItem

They are the currently made reproduction plugs and are the same as the ones sold by other vendors for around $25 apiece. They work very well in any T, and are highly recommended if you are using the original timer and coils. Gap them at .025" and it will be many years before they need any attention.
Royce


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David_Cockey on Friday, September 28, 2007 - 10:25 pm:

I was refering to the new production Champion X plugs. In addition to the Tennesse vendor Royce provides a link to they have also been sold on eBay by vendors from Michigan and Illinois.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky on Friday, September 28, 2007 - 10:51 pm:

Well, cripes! I just tried posting pictures of the original Champion X and Fordson plugs but I got some kind of file error and lost the post.

Here's the gist: Those aren't Champion X plugs! They're Fordson! The X bases didn't have the landing before the threads. Don't those extend into the head too far?

I'll try to post the pics again in a minute.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky on Friday, September 28, 2007 - 10:53 pm:

Fordson


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth Harbuck - SHVLA on Friday, September 28, 2007 - 11:01 pm:

Ken,

The Fordson looks like the hot ticket to me - projected tip before its time. :-)

At 1/4" valve lift, it might work fine - and make more hoohspowr!

Seth


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky on Friday, September 28, 2007 - 11:03 pm:

Here's the insulators.

Champion Insulators


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky on Friday, September 28, 2007 - 11:07 pm:

Seth, the X was a much hotter plug. Look at the insulators. I believe that's why Ford adopted the X as standard for the Model T. The engine needs a hotter plug to keep from fouling.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth Harbuck - Shreveport on Friday, September 28, 2007 - 11:35 pm:

Ken,

They may have needed that then with the oil sealing issues. Cold is good as long as fouling is no issue, IMO - my two-stroke experience taught me that.

My car is no more than 4.25:1 CR with mega-loose valve stems, alumin(i)um pistons (good narrow rings for early seal), and cold Motorcraft F-11's with no intake air preheater pipe. My car doesn't foul.

Besides, I was just playing - I don't want tractor plugs in my car; it's plenty of that already. :-)

Seth

Pics in the morning.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 12:09 am:

Ken:

My NOS Champion - Ford script plugs have the "Fordson" base, also the plugs I have from 1927 ( with receipt from the purchase ) are the same. The Champion X plug you pictured is the early type X plug, not the one used for most of the T production.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 12:53 am:

The X plug shown above was used from 1911 to at least 1921-22. (That's as far as my catalogs go.) I don't know when the "new" X came out but that was a question I posed in my post that was "errored out".

It's obvious the insulator changed as well. What was reasoning? Do you have a picture of your '27 insulators? Does the electrode extend out of the ceramic as far as the older version?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Shirley on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 04:58 am:

The price is two to three hours of work for just a new insulator. I was at the parts store today and the guy was selling a young lady an eighty dollar set of plugs for a Honda. Dosn't seem so high after seeing these prices on insulators.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 10:08 am:

Ken:

I wonder what Bruce McCalley has to offer in the Encyclopedia section under "Spark Plugs" ???


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 10:13 am:

Here it is :

SPARK PLUGS
(The following information was supplied by Trent Boggess during his visit at the Ford Archives in June 1997.)

Information on the spark plugs used on the Model T is extremely scarce. Beginning in Mid-1912 information begins to appear. There are two contracts for spark plugs in accession #402. One is from the Champion Spark Plug Co. and the other is from the Champion Ignition Co. The later soon became AC Spark Plug and it's President was none other than Albert Champion (he even signed the contract).

According to the pages in the Accessory Detail Parts List there were four different brands of spark plugs used between 1912 and 1915. Mezger Spark Plugs were used during 1913-1914, AC Spark plugs between 1912 and 1913, Mosler Superior Spark Plugs in 1914 and the Champion “X” Spark Plug from 1912 on.

The releases in Acc. 1701 also identify four different designs of spark plugs beginning in 1913. In fact, it is interesting that the first release for T-1386 (Spark Plug) is dated Sept. 11, 1913. That was for the Champion “X” design. In 1922 it was given the designation T-1386-A1.

T-1386-A2 is the Bethlehem spark plug design. It was adopted on 3/28/22 and made obsolete on 9/2/26.

T-1386-A3 was the Champion “F” design. It was also adopted on 3/28/22. An interesting note appears on 7/18/23 which states that the distance between the electrodes changed from .035 -.037” to .030-.035”.

Finally, T-1386-A4 was labeled an experimental manufacture “X”. It was a new design adopted on 1/5/27.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 02:14 pm:

Thanks for posting that Bob. It does support the claims in the catalogs I have. The 1911 vs. 1912 of the accession letter is close enough. I have a set of the Bethlehem plugs but I wasn't aware that they were "stock" issue for the Model T. I better hang on to those.

I wonder if the "F" design of '22 is the style we see today? (The combination Fordson/X.) The AC plug appears to have been AC-CICO (12RC)or the AC-#2 (12RAC) with a longer insulator. No car/tractor stipulation is made between the two. I might mention that Splitdorf made a plug (P179) for the Ford. It shows the same plug used in cars and tractors. It had an extended reach but not quite as long as the Fordson.

Why is it that the current Champion X is sought after as THE plug for "show" when there are clearly variations over the years? Interesting.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fritz Wilder on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 02:34 pm:

Ford service bulletin No.4 Vol.3 April,1922 Page 30


spark plugspark plug2.jpg


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fritz Wilder on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 02:51 pm:

spark plug


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 05:20 pm:

Thanks Fritz !!
What was the date of that bulletin ??


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By , on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 05:23 pm:

Ford service bulletin No.4 Vol.3 April,1922 Page 30


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 05:27 pm:

Guess 'ole Henry was a penny pincher after all...... just like the production of two ignition coils , one for "TRACTOR" and the other for T & TT's. .... he decided to make one grade standard coil that was to be used in all Fords of the day so the extra-duty features of the tractor coil were shared by all Ford cars & trucks & Fordsons.

...... One spark plug with the improved qualities for all Ford products of the day instead of several.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mick on Thursday, October 04, 2007 - 10:39 pm:

I have a box with six double ribbed champion-x spark plugs. box says sillimanite insulators
1/2 inch long A-25
make me an offer for them.
live in MA.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mick on Thursday, October 04, 2007 - 10:44 pm:


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