It ran fine. Started right up until I put in a disconnect. I put a battery cut off and it started right up. When I turned it off I reached down and disconnected the knife style battery cut off to turn the car off. After that it would not start again. Now the gas spills over from flooding. I have a true fire on it, could I have blown that? I touched the screw driver to the block and spark plugs while my wife turned it over, but there was no spark. Any thoughts? Thanks for your suggestions and help.Bob

Could have blown the fuse in the true-fire. Turn off the power and pull the unit out of the coil box and take the screws out of the bottom, carefully remove the bottom. There is a 4 amp fuse that may have blown. The power source on my '23 is the post below the 3 and 4 ceramics on the firewall. Make sure the switch is not grounded. The true fire works on a negative ground system.I have just installed one of these in mine and after some bumps it now works great. I called and emailed Mr. Bittner and he was very helpful. I completely rewired the car and it fixed the problems I had.
Bob Sanders

Using the battery isolator switch to turn the car off is the wrong thing to do.
The generator is no longer being loaded down by the battery and therefore its output voltage rises substantially. My guess is the excessive voltage has blown the electronic ignition.
The car should only be turned off by interrupting the supply to the ignition coil/truefire/coils; not the whole car (unless it has no generator).

My thoughts: Battery disconnects are often the cause of trouble. Most of them are under engineered for regular use every time you shut the car off. Like John said, disconnecting the battery with the engine running will cause a wild jump in generator voltage which can cause lots of current to damage any thing that is operating.

I have yet to hear of anyone having a problem that a battery disconnect can fix.

I agree, a spike may have occurred (the true fire can't handle anything over 12 volts) hopefully the fuse saved you. If it's not the fuse check with the true fire folks, they are terrific and will get you back in business.

Royce:

I totally agree with you on the battery disconnect thing. Model T's were NOT KNOWN to burst into flames from electrical problems nor did other cars with the early simple electrical systems they have. The battery disconnect switches are sold to customers by convincing them that there is a need to pre-solve some nonexistent problem. If your battery is dying when you leave it connected in the car then there is something WRONG - FIX IT! If there is nothing wrong but you think the disconnect switch is a good idea then you have bought into the fear and you have likely installed a future problem.

Good set of coils and a new Anderson looks cheaper all the time, doesn't it, John?

Better, too Stan. One of the things I really enjoy most about my '15 is the fact that it doesn't HAVE a starter, generator, fuses,etc. to fail. Just coils, a good mag, and a stock Ford timer. Just choke it and crank it, and it'll fire ALMOST every time on the first pull. When it doesn't, it still always starts and runs. The reason I'm driving a 92 year old car is to experience what it was like to be driving a T in 1915. For me, that means no high-tech/modern mods. If I want to experience electronic ignition, I'll drive my 4Runner....and if I wanted an electric starter, a battery, and a generator, I'd buy a model A......

Jeff

Better be careful of your opinions, Jeff. You will get slapped right up side the head by the people who love Volkswagon distributors and electronic ignition and buzz boxes. About a year ago some guy who couldn't get his buzzer box to work posted "Any thoughts would be appreciated" and I said, "Take it out and send it back while you can still get your money back" and I was practically crucified by a couple of the 90 day wonders who think a Model T is a Volvo with an old fashioned body. I said a dozen times I didn't care what the guy did, it was his car, but my answer, based on 54 years of owning, repairing, buying, selling, rescueing, etc., Model T's, reflected my opinion. MOST of the problems I have seen on tours, most of the emergency "Can you help me fix my T?" calls that I have had over the years start off with, "I put a distributor, or I put a Rambler overdrive, or I put a Kohler carburetor or ~~~ you pick what they put on their T or what was on it when they bought it that somebody else had added ~~~ and that is the place to look for the problem. Almost always, replacing the distributor or electronic whatever with a timer and coils--which is about a 15 minute job -- will get them back on the tour or ready for the parade. The last one I did was an emergency the morning of his grandaughter's wedding. That was one of the Mexican made (at least that's about the quality they are-I don't know who makes them for him) distributors sold by a guy in Texas. Now, that is not to say that I don't like some things, for example my Speedster will have dual OF carbs and an Eisemann side drive Mag on it. I also have 50 years of mechanical experience to fix it if something is broken and am fully aware that it is likely to be harder to get to run right with dual carbs than with an NH. I am also aware that one tiny broken wire in my mag will stop it from working, whereas coils and timer can suffer all sorts of small failures and still work fine--or at least enough to get home on. I just think a lot of the new things are unneccessary and take away greatly from the Model T experience. As far as there being something wrong with a system that has worked for 80 years and more, my personal opinion is that if most people would spend the time and money they put into a replacement ignition system into a decent set of coils and a good timer, they would have a better T experience and have a more fun and reliable T. My truck, which has never had a starter, generator or battery and has never had the head or pan off as far as I know--I've had it since high school in the 1950's--will start on the mag and a couple pulls of the crank after being parked for 2 or 3 years without being started. Seem like a good ignition system to me. As far as the Truefire deal, I guess they work but I laugh everytime I hear that little Chinese cell phone buzzer trying to imitate a coil. To me it is saying "I could-n't make it run, I could n't make it run, I could-n't make it run, I could-n't make it run." Probably not everybody hears that in the buzzer. Kind of a Chinese Rap song.

Well,anyway, be ready, you're gonna get chopped up if you continue to post opinions that differ from the college educated engineer/T experts who KNOW that Henry was wrong when he built the ignition system. Fifteen million cars sold, 250-300,000 of them still on the road 80-100 years later. Just HAS TO BE the wrong way to fire a spark plug. =)

By the way, my new Dodge pickup has some kind of electronic ignition but has a seat more uncomfortable than any T I have ever been in. Must be progress.

I've found another model T law, I discovered it last week after the Venice AACA show. The number of "pulls" necessary to fire a model T is in direct proportion to the number of observers. If you are alone, or only with one or two buddies, it's a one pull to prime, and one to start, max. If you have 20 spectators it's 2 to flood it, 3 more to start gagging yourself from the heat, 5 more to realize that the coils stopped buzzing, 2 more for a single belch, then 2 or 3 more to start it. They start just like a Harley Panhead!

Ain't that the T TRUTH????

I was just going to add this before going back to work, the totally original 1917 that Bob (he is now the 3rd owner--the car was sold new in Geraldine and is still there) bought this summer has never had a battery or provision for one and the guy who bought it in 1940 and sold it at his auction in June, 2007 never even had an extra coil for it and didn't know how to take the timer off to clean it. The car was run every year up until two years ago when the radiator sprung a leak. Had a set of Wards tires put on "Before the War." We stopped up the leak, cleaned the timer and drove it 12 1/2 miles to his farm in pouring rain.

There just has to be something wrong with an ignition system like that, doncha think?

I can count about a dozen garage fires that had a Model T inside. The T was never blamed, but I suspect in each case it was the T at fault. The reason I suspect this to be the case is I know of about five others that had a fire start under the dash while on a tour or in a parade. In each one of those cases the wires were loose on the ammeter or one of the nuts was loose that held the ammeter post in place. That wire is always hot and when the ammeter post can drop down just a little, you get a lot of sparks and then a fire. The needle in one ammeter was just about totally vaporized.

I always thought a kill switch was to prevent theft.

A friend was abhorred when he saw that I kept the key in the switch & wasn't I worried someone would steal it, I laughed, to steal it, you gotta know how to start her & know how to drive her.

Once read a thing by Floyd Clymer, he said the best way to stop a thief was locking the spark & throttle together at the bottom of the quadrant, if his arm didn't go into the next county, he'd get run over.

Alex

A friend had the keys stolen, but not the T. Some youngster needed them.

the most reliable ignition was one i put on in 1974 and haven't touched since....i went out to the local airport and went to the hangar where the a&p guy worked..after listening to my story he went over to a large barrel full of discarded magnetos to be sent off for rebuild..."any one you want for ten bucks" he said....i got a 4 cylinder mag with an impluse [and an automatic advance..always retarded at crank speed]....hot as a pistol then as now. god bless the faa!!

My '15 is an old survivor that never has had a starter or generator added. It fires up with 1 choke pull and 1 or 2 "real" pulls unless, as Mike C. said, sometimes when someone is watching. Our Arkansas Tin Lizzies club has been in existence for only 3 years, and we tour 4 times a year. I've been on every tour, and I've been paying attention. Every car that has wound up on the vulture wagon has had either a distributor or a water pump, or both. Is there a cause/effect relationship going on here? Kinda' makes you wonder.

Since I'm a "college educated engineer" I guess I'll have to yank out the coils and timer and install either a distributor or True-Fire system. Which should it be?

Will be a shame though since I enjoy the simplicity of the original system. I do cheat and use one of John Regan's rechargable "hot shot" batteries when starting. Usually takes one or two pulls. Just can't get the hang of starting on magneto but it does run well on magneto once started.

Need to confess to having a newer carburetor; it's an NH on a 1916 but my excuse is it was on the car when we bought it. The car did come with a never installed Potter rebuilt Holley G, but given how well the NH runs I haven't gotten around to trying the Holley G.

Battery disconnects are just fine, if you turn off everything before you throw the disconnect. I put mine on the negative terminal of the battery and connect the cable to the switch. I only turn it off when I park for a long time. That way any small leak won't drain the battery, and if just in case a wire is grounded, it won't cause a fire.

I agree with John H. The generator will blow out anything electrical including itself if the battery is disconnected while the engine is running. I had the lights burn out on a 35 Ford at night because of that very reason, unfortunately or fortunately, however you want to view it, a cop saw me, and wouldn't let me drive until it was fixed. I was able to call my father who came and got me, and the next day I fixed the problem and drove the car home. That was just from corroded battery cables. That happened over 50 years ago, but I still remember it and know what will happen with a kill switch.
Norm

Heard a rumor that the True-Fire folks may soon be making all-new coils of the original type. Supposed to be tooling up for new points which won't have the problems of the currently available ones. Could be interesting to see who switches point suppliers for their rebuilt coils.

Bob...did you get it started?

Thanks for your help guys, I have not had a chance to work on the car. I recently took on a 3rd job and find it hard to play with the T. I sure do miss it! You've been a big help so I'll let you know what happens. Bob
PS: I'm pretty sure you're right, I blew the True Fire. I put an e-mail into Ed Bittner, but havn't heard back. I'm also selling my 12 system as soon as I get a chance to put it on the T classifieds.

I have limited experience with the battery disconnect switch; the '21 Coupe we recently traded for another car has one on it. I never had any trouble with the disconnect. I really enjoyed how handy it was to be able to disconnect everything electrical on the car when I was working on or near an electrical part. It was much more simple to just turn off the switch than to disconnect a battery cable. The cables are hard to get to in those old coupes.