Help me get it going!

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2005: Help me get it going!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randy Carlson on Friday, November 16, 2007 - 04:35 pm:

OK...I popped in a fresh battery and the engine turns fine. I cant tell if Im getting any spark, I pulled off a plug wire and held it back a hair from the tip and cranked it over...no spark. I pulled the top of the coil box off and looked in there but I dont know what to check.

I dont have a manual here...just flying blind for the adventure of it. Please help me get this baby fired up. Then when it's running we can all raise our cyber beers up for a toast to another one running!

If anyone wants to call to help...my number is 951-767-1600

And thanks in advance for your assistance!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By karl schlachter on Friday, November 16, 2007 - 04:41 pm:

did you turn key to batt? I am pretty sure you did. touch grounded test light to engine side of coils should have batt voltage there. I am so new I shouldnt even be posting but thats where I would start


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randy Carlson on Friday, November 16, 2007 - 05:00 pm:

I did turn the key to batt...the headlights come on, horn makes it's raspy noise, engine turns when I hit the pedal button. I will check for any power at the coils...havent done that yet.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By karl schlachter on Friday, November 16, 2007 - 05:06 pm:

Randy I am trying to remember which post it is My T is not here at work but someone will chime in soon. I do remember the four posts above the plug wires are for the timer. you can probablylook at the block on firewall and figure out which one should have batt power


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randy Carlson on Friday, November 16, 2007 - 05:08 pm:

OK...turned the switch to batt and checked the contacts at the top of the coils to see if they spark when I push the little contacts up there and nothing seems to happen. In fact I checked for power all over the firewall and didnt seem to find anything that would light the light (and yes I checked the test light so I know that is good).

Any ideas?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randy Carlson on Friday, November 16, 2007 - 05:19 pm:

Correction...I do have power at a few of the points at the block on the firewall, but nothing at any of the coil or plug posts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By karl schlachter on Friday, November 16, 2007 - 05:19 pm:

Again I am such a newbie maybe I shouold shut up. someone soon will be here but here I go if youre horn works. one of the terminals is for that so you should light the test light on the block check the small wire on battery side of starter button that should fire up the terminal block


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Zahorik on Friday, November 16, 2007 - 05:39 pm:

If you have a long jumper, you can jump from the positive battery post directly to the coil box. You may want to use a fused jumper. There are four high voltage posts that go to the spark plugs and four low voltage posts that go to the timer. The timer grounds these wires to select the proper coil when needed. This is why you would want to use a fused jumper, just in case to touch one of these wires. Then there is another post which the power comes to. Depending on if your car is pre '25, this post is down from the timer posts and near the steering column, sort of off by itself. If it is a 26/27 then it is on the bottom of the coil box. Make this connection and then ground the timer wires one at a time to see if the coils vibrate. Then check the timer to see it is indeed grounding. This should at least tell you if you have spark, the next question is it a ggod spark?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Mullin on Friday, November 16, 2007 - 05:55 pm:

Randy,

The lower contact on the passenger side is the battery connection. The lower contact on the driver's side is the magneto contact.

If your coils are good you should hear one coil buzz when 1) the switch is in the BAT position and 2) one of the four contacts in the timer is in contact with the rotor inside the timer. When you turn the crank slowly by hand you should hear each coil buzz in turn.

If they don't buzz, try the switch the other way.

Also, pull out each coil and check for clean metal on the three contacts on the coil and the mating contact inside the coil box. Make sure the springy contacts are not squashed so they don't touch. This diagram may help:

coil box section

Other places to look are inside the timer on front of the engine. Just loosen the bolt so you can swing the keeper finger away, remove the cap (with the four wires attached) and make sure it is clean inside. A little bit of scrubbing to expose clean metal and remove old grease here will help. When replacing the cover, there is a circular recess it should seat in when you have it positioned correctly. Not difficult to do, you just can't see up there.

wiring diagram

Remember, the timer is a low voltage device and is sensitive to dirt and grease in the wrong places. The timer actually connects each coil to ground in turn to complete the electrical path.

I don't have a starter on my own car, but I believe the starter is always hot regardless of the position of the ignition switch.

Tom
Detroit


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randy Carlson on Friday, November 16, 2007 - 06:15 pm:

The car is a 1922 model, it only has one post below the plug wire posts. There doesnt seem to be any power getting to that post. I had a wonderful phone call coaching session with Dan off the list here and he was a wealth of information.

My next step it seems is to figure out why there is no power to that post. Im going to take a little lunch break and then get back at it.

The diagrams are great...I will give them a good study. You are right, the starter is hot no matter wehere the switch is. I have noticed that the switch is a little quirky...sometimes it seems to light the lights, other times not...Im sure there are some dirty contacts going on.

So far no coil buzz...thats my goal for now. Once Ive got that and some spark at the plugs I will tackle the fuel system...the float bowl is clean in there, need to check the lines, I know the dealie-bop under the tank is clogged up... another hurdle.

Thank you everybody for your help so far...I am really looking forward to that wonderful "chuff chuff chuff" music that Dan played for me over the phone...his 1915 car started first crank...hmmmm dreamy!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By sethharbuck@bellsouth.net on Friday, November 16, 2007 - 06:31 pm:

Randy,

Since your car is an electric start car, there will be only one post below the spark plug wires.

It sounds to me like you have ignition switch problems.

If it was my car, I would disconnect the red wire from the magpost and with the ignition switch in the MAG position, run a fused jumper from the battery + to this red wire. If now you hear coils buzz in turn, you know that the BAT side of the ignition switch (or wiring) is bad.

If you don't hear coils buzz, then both sides of the ignition switch are bad, or wiring - including the power wiring inside the coilsbox (my term - there are four coilz in there).

I hope this helps you get her running.

Seth


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Zahorik on Friday, November 16, 2007 - 07:30 pm:

You may have to ground the timer wires or at least crank the engine, because some times the timer will be between contacts and there will be no ground on any coil. So when you listen for the buzz that you expect, it may not occur because of the timer being a little off.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Zahorik on Friday, November 16, 2007 - 07:34 pm:

One other item to consider is that sometimes the wiring has been changed. When I first got my car all the wires on the firewall terminal strip was 'hay wired'. Those nice diagrams that Tom so kindly posted are the way they should be, but may not be. Good Luck


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Weir on Friday, November 16, 2007 - 07:50 pm:

Randy; You said that when you turned the switch to batt the headlites came on. That is the headlite switch. leave it straight up and down. Turn the key to the Batt position.

Sincerely

Jim Weir


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Friday, November 16, 2007 - 08:33 pm:

Randy,

1. I’m sorry but I don’t remember if you shared where you are located or not. If you can have someone familiar with Ts there, looking at your T, it can save everyone a lot of frustration. Have you posted your address/city and asked if someone is nearby?
2. If you accidentally ground your battery through the magneto post on top of your transmission (just above the flywheel), you will demagnetize your magnets and your magneto will no longer work. That can happen from a bad ignition switch, improper wiring, a short in the wiring, etc. If you want to experiment without reading any of the documentation and confirming how your T is wired etc., strongly recommend you disconnect the magneto wire and put a small piece of rubber hose etc. over the magneto post so it cannot be inadvertently supplied with battery power.
3. I personally like to read the instructions before attempting things but obviously some folks don’t and for sure when Henry built his first car he didn’t have any instructions. But on line some excellent sources are available. Specifically:
a. Melt’s “How to take a T out of moth balls” http://www.toweautomuseum.org/html/3.html scroll down a little until you see the writing (did you run some of that checklist?). I.e if the previous owner drained the oil for some reason – it would be very hard on the engine to start it. It also specifically addresses installing the battery and getting the ignition going which you may find helpful.
b. Do you know what type of oil and/or clutch is in the car? With an original Model T clutch, 30 wt oil, and cold weather, if the car starts it can easily drive forward and run over people, things, or cause accidents.
c. Questions 55 through 64 in the on-line 1921 Model T Ford Instruction booklet address ignition problems at: http://www.mtfca.com/books/21manual.htm
d. If you have no prior experience with a T – strongly recommend you do a little reading and even more strongly suggest you have someone that knows Ts to help you. For example if you pull the spark lever down and crank the car with the starter, it can back fire and destroy the starter bendex. If you push down on the starting crank (if you got it to working – I think there was note that it wasn’t working) and you have the spark advanced – it can break your arm (called a Ford fracture back in the teens and twenties – very common and very predictable).
4. Have fun but be careful and don’t hurt yourself, someone else, or the car (in that order).

Respectfully submitted,

Hap Tucker 1915 Model T Ford touring cut off and made into a pickup truck and 1907 Model S Runabout. Sumter SC.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Friday, November 16, 2007 - 09:32 pm:

Randy,
Where are you located? If you mess with the wiring without knowing what you are doing, you could ruin the magneto, or burn something out. You need to post your location and then maybe someone in your area can come over and help you.

Jim is right, the ignition switch and the headlight switch are together and the one with the lever is headlights. The ignition is turned on by turning the key. If everything is wired correctly, turning the key counterclockwise will connect to the battery, and clockwise to the magneto. With one of the rear wheels jacked up and the parking brake halfway back you will be in neutral with the brake off. Push the spark lever all the way up and turn the key counterclockwise. Then go in front and push in on the crank and turn the engine about one quarter turn. Somewhere in that quarter turn the timer will make contact with one of the coil wires. The coil will buzz. Actually, there should be be 2 points per revolution where the coils buzz. If they don't buzz, you have something wrong. The problem could be in the wiring, the switch, the coil box, the timer, or the coils themselves. If you get a buzz then be sure there is gas in the tank, and the fuel valve is on. Try to start the car with the spark lever all the way up. Pull the choke for just about 1/2 revolution of the engine. It's easy to choke too much and flood the engine. If gas drips out of the carburetor, you choked it too much. Then you will have to wait about 15 minutes for it to dry out. When it starts pull down the spark lever.
Be sure to always push the spark lever up before starting because if it is not up you could damage the starter or your arm.

Let us know what happens.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Friday, November 16, 2007 - 09:42 pm:

Randy,

1. I’m sorry but I don’t remember if you shared where you are located or not. If you can have someone familiar with Ts there, looking at your T, it can save everyone a lot of frustration. Have you posted your address/city and asked if someone is nearby?
2. If you accidentally ground your battery through the magneto post on top of your transmission (just above the flywheel), you will demagnetize your magnets and your magneto will no longer work. That can happen from a bad ignition switch, improper wiring, a short in the wiring, etc. If you want to experiment without reading any of the documentation and confirming how your T is wired etc., strongly recommend you disconnect the magneto wire and put a small piece of rubber hose etc. over the magneto post so it cannot be inadvertently supplied with battery power.
3. I personally like to read the instructions before attempting things but obviously some folks don’t and for sure when Henry built his first car he didn’t have any instructions. But on line some excellent sources are available. Specifically:
a. Melt’s “How to take a T out of moth balls” http://www.toweautomuseum.org/html/3.html scroll down a little until you see the writing (did you run some of that checklist?). I.e if the previous owner drained the oil for some reason – it would be very hard on the engine to start it. It also specifically addresses installing the battery and getting the ignition going which you may find helpful.
b. Do you know what type of oil and/or clutch is in the car? With an original Model T clutch, 30 wt oil, and cold weather, if the car starts it can easily drive forward and run over people, things, or cause accidents.
c. Questions 55 through 64 in the on-line 1921 Model T Ford Instruction booklet address ignition problems at: http://www.mtfca.com/books/21manual.htm
d. If you have no prior experience with a T – strongly recommend you do a little reading and even more strongly suggest you have someone that knows Ts to help you. For example if you pull the spark lever down and crank the car with the starter, it can back fire and destroy the starter bendex. If you push down on the starting crank (if you got it to working – I think there was note that it wasn’t working) and you have the spark advanced – it can break your arm (called a Ford fracture back in the teens and twenties – very common and very predictable).
4. Have fun but be careful and don’t hurt yourself, someone else, or the car (in that order).

Respectfully submitted,

Hap Tucker 1915 Model T Ford touring cut off and made into a pickup truck and 1907 Model S Runabout. Sumter SC.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Friday, November 16, 2007 - 09:46 pm:

Oops my bad – some how I double posted? Sorry.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap Tucker 1915 Model T Ford Touring cur off and made into a pickup truck and 1907 Model S Runabout. Sumter SC.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randy Carlson on Friday, November 16, 2007 - 10:26 pm:

I am located in Aguanga California, which is east of Temecula...would love to have someone come by...but I know I am not in a metropolitain area...Im way out in the sticks.

Unfortunately I do not have a key for the car...I just figured turning the switch would do it...perhaps that is the "key" to my problem.

As far as messing with the wiring, I am not messing with anything, just trying to clean the connections and see what works. I realize that it would be better to read the instructions but I was up for an adventure today and just figured I would fiddle with it a bit. I tend to learn better on my feet in general but I understand the benefit of research.

I have not checked the oil...is there a dipstick of some sort (other than myself?)

How can I best deal with the issue of not having a key?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe on Friday, November 16, 2007 - 10:41 pm:

Randy, methinks you are turning the light switch on instead of the ignition. The slot in the middle where it looks like a key would go in is the ignition switch. There is a little number beside the slot where the key goes into the switch. That is the number of key you need. They are readily available from just about everyone or the vendors.

You need to power the coil box, which powers the coils, to get it to run. If you disconnect the wire at the lower right -- the one closest to the steering column -- on the firewall where all the coil terminals are you can hook a jumper wire on there from the battery or another battery to get ignition power without worrying about whether you will discharge the mag, etc. If it ran when they parked it, it will run now. Move the lever under the steering wheel that is closest to the outside of the car down about 1/2 inch from its furthest up position. That is the spark advance. The other lever is the speed or gas lever. Up is off, down is go faster. Make sure you have a fire extinguisher close by just in case. Follow all the above about how to check and see if the coils buzz when it cranks over. If the coils will buzz and you have gas it will run.

The oil is checked by crawling under the car from the passenger side about half way back. On the back of the engine pan there are two petcocks. Open the bottom one and if oil runs out you are OK.

Also, did you push in on the crank while you were trying to turn the engine over with the crank? That is what engages the crank on the engine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe on Friday, November 16, 2007 - 10:42 pm:

Also, look around under the seat, etc. and see if there is a key there. Lots of times owners keep an extra key on the car somewhere.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Friday, November 16, 2007 - 11:36 pm:

Randy,
Probably the nearest chapter of the club to where you are is the Riverside Corona club. I'm sure they have members in Temecula, and probably some around winchester as well. There is some information on that club on the home page. They are a very friendly group. They hosted the national tour about 2 years ago and we had a good time. Chaffin's Garage is located in Corona and is a very good source of parts.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alex Alongi on Saturday, November 17, 2007 - 12:32 am:

Randy.

I made the same mistake thinking the light switch was the ignition, eventually found the key under the floormat, like Stan says get the number off the switch & get a repro from a vendor. The key is what you turn to Batt or Mag & leave the light swich down. All the other electrical equipment will work without it, but, without the Key, the coils won't buzz. Once you get it running then test the coils

If the oil hasn't been changed in several years check the oil (you may have asphalt in the craankcase) & you may want to change it a couple of times, running it a little between changes.

When pouring in the new oil open the top petcock & pour in the oil til it comes out, when it stops shut it off & your set, then you check the oil level from the bottom petcck.

Alex


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randy Carlson on Saturday, November 17, 2007 - 12:44 am:

Ive had some great phone calls from folks today, thanks to everybody. One fellow must have tried my day number and got the machine and went the next step to call information for my home number!
Thats dedication!

Great fountains of information spewed in my general direction and I thank all who called to help.

First...I need the key..."duh" gotta have a key to start a car, even an old one.

I havent messed up the wiring or disconnected anything, no jumper wires or any of that. The wiring appears to be all original in the car and I understand the fragility of that. Im cleaning contacts wherever they seem dirty and generally poking around.

I fooled with the fuel system a bit today too. I pulled the tank out of the trunk and drained out all the old gas. Lots of crumbly bits came out too and the baffle in the tank is loose in there.
Would I be better off buying a new tank and petcock filter deal or cleaning up what Ive got?

The tank is in the trunk, which seemed to stump a couple callers today...but they didnt have coupes, so perhaps that is the issue. Any input on this?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark on Saturday, November 17, 2007 - 01:54 am:

Check the ignition switch for the number of the key you require. Contact Chaffins Garage, they can fix you up with a new key and their in Corona. (951) 735-4791. Ask for Dave.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Sanders on Saturday, November 17, 2007 - 02:28 am:

Randy, I am sure you have found that this is the greatest group humans on the planet. I am a new T owner (just five months) and have learned more than I can comprehend from these guys. I read the posts every day even if they don't relate to a problem I have...I'm sure I will need this sage advice in the future. Thanks guys for all your help and encouragement. My goal is to get my "23 "just right" and start on another...a truck is next on my wish list.
Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Saturday, November 17, 2007 - 05:31 am:

Randy, it sounds like you're off to a good start.
Take your time, just leave the wiring alone for now. From the looks of your car I'm going to speculate that it was running when it was parked.
I'm also going to speculate that once you get a key and turn it to "Batt." you will be able to slowly rotate the crank and each coil will "Buzz" as they are supposed to.
If this turns out to be the case (as I suspect it will) pull the plugs, ground them on the head with the wires connected, rotate the crank and look for a spark across the plug gap. If you have that, squirt a little oil in the cyls. install the plugs and call the ignition system done! (for now).
The fuel tank is another issue. I personally would be looking into a new tank. If you already have a loose baffle in the original, there is a strong likelihood that little rusty chunks of Krap are going to continue to invade your fuel system from now on. The original tank could also be paper thin on the bottom and you may find out just how thin when it springs a leak as the vibrations of driving finish it off.
It might also be smart to use your original fuel line as a pattern and make a completely new one all the way to the carb. for the same reasons mentioned above. Safety and reliability will be your reward.
Dennis.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Saturday, November 17, 2007 - 05:45 am:

One more thing, If you haven't noticed by now, you soon will notice that Model T owners are falling out of the trees like fruit all around you!
It's been 80 years since this car was last made but these cars are still EVERYWHERE!
I only found out last week that there is an old guy right here in my little town that has a whole barn full of Model T stuff!
I have yet to go check this out but when I do I'll post pictures of what he's got. You just never know, he might have that last part that somebody here needs.
Dennis.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Weir on Saturday, November 17, 2007 - 05:58 am:

Randy; If you take a jumper from the yellow wire on the terminal block on the fire wall, (the second terminal) to the black wire on the coil box, ( The odd connection on the bottom ) it should work as if you had a key.

With the head lites off, measure the voltage at the yellow connection, it should be the battery voltage. and the only one with voltage.

Sincerely

Jim Weir


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alex Alongi on Saturday, November 17, 2007 - 08:57 am:

Randy,

One more thing about the oil change, get some "Ream & Clean" pipe cleaners (you can probably find them at the market), regular pipe cleaners but they have some nylon bristles & with the top petcock open run it through a few times to make sure it's open. If it's plugged it's real easy to over fill.

Totally agree with Dennis about the fuel tank, if the baffles are loose it's shot. Chaffin's have them & get a new sediment bulb while your at it.

Alex


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stewart on Saturday, November 17, 2007 - 11:17 am:

I pulled a T out of mothballs after sitting for well over 40+ years. After driving myself insane finding all the bugs in the system and nearly having a heart attack cranking it, I simply rebuilt the coil box, got 4 rebuilt coils , and put in a new gas tank. The carb only need cleaning and a new float. It then started with only a quarter turn of the crank.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randy Carlson on Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 03:55 am:

Well update time.
I got the new fuel tank in it (and the new key)and gave it a try. It took a little bit but the engine fired a bit..very exciting. I could get it running for a few seconds but thats about it...I think one of the coils is bad. I ordered up four new coils (I dont like fiddling with the old stuff and the settings sound a little tough to get right). Chaffin was supposed to have gotten them right out to me...expected them the next day accoring to the fellow on the phone, but three days later...no box .I was really hoping to have them for the weekend (insert painful sobbing here)

Nice folks though...Im sure they will arrive in short notice and the next post will be that she runs. I am really looking forward to hearing her go! Oh yeah...and the exciting first drive!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 08:40 am:

While you're sitting around and before you take anything apart, Turn your key on, CHOCK THE WHEELS, and slowly turn the crank until you hear a coil buzz, figure out which coil is buzzing, TURN THE KEY OFF, (these coils really "bite") disconnect the wire from the plug, turn the key on, make sure YOU aren't grounded (see the "bite" part)and hold the plug wire about an eigth of an inch from the engine and look for a spark.
Remember, this isn't a modern car, it doesn't just make one spark when the points open, if a coil is buzzing it's kind of like a little arc welder, it will continue to try spark until it's not buzzing.
Keep track of how far you are turning the crank until you hear the next coil buzz and do it again.
Screw around with the coils, forget all this "specifications" stuff, it just gets in the way, you're a farmer, out in the fields and the old lady is screaming that lunch is ready, you're hungry, you want to drive home. Pull the coils out, swap them around, your car looks like it was a "runner" when it was parked, you're going to end up fixing a lot of things totally by accident and not have a clue why it works now and didn't a minute ago, just like I have.
If it ran at all, you probably have fuel mixture "issues" to play with.
If you can get it to try to run at all, pull the plugs, look them over closely, remember, the warm ones were firing, the cold ones weren't
If you can manage to get a spark at the end of each plug wire, better yet at the end of each plug, move on. Get somebody to spray some starting fluid in the carb, If it trys to run even better mess with the fuel mixture screw that is part of the choke, turn it 1/4 turn counter clockwise, it was probably warm and "leaned out" when it was last parked and you might just have to richen it up a bit to get it to fire on all 4 cyl.
Remember, don't complicate things!, these cars were made to be fixed by people who had no automotive skills and rode horses!
Dennis.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Jeffrey Cole on Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 08:47 am:

Yep,I was thinking the other day when trying to solve a problem.

"What would Farmer Brown do?"


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe on Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 01:42 pm:

YEAH, DENNIS!!!!!!! A VOICE OF REASON!!!!!!!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randy Carlson on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 12:48 am:

Thanks for the sage advice Dennis.

I did do a bit of the old farmer's fiddle with it, pulled the coils out, swapped them around, etc...only seemed to make things worse.

Two of the coil boxes were oozing tar type stuff, the other two seemed OK (and newer). I figured I would just order up the new coils , some new plugs and go from there. I know I will get it figured out eventually. The new coils sounded like a good starting point and I have seen enough posts about people replacing them and it "fixing" their problems that I figured what the heck...

The car is so amazingly simple. Makes the VW's Im used to working on seem ever so complex (and they are really simple too).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Weir on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 01:00 am:

Randy; That is similar to the service that I have received. 5 days for an overnite delivery in my case.

Sincerely

Jim Weir


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 05:40 am:

"Oozing" coils?, now that's different.
Where's "Ron the coil man" when you need him?
All of a sudden, my car is bleeding to death! I went to our local car show today and noticed that I'm leaving a trail of oil, and when I park, a huge puddle of oil under it.
I've got a hunch that the screen I installed in the trans when I adjusted the bands is filled with band debris and the oil is coming out through the pedal shafts, the starter bendix cover, the trans cover and the starter. Hard to tell right now there's oil everywhere!
No big deal, I'll pick up another gallon of oil in the morning, fill it up and limp back to the garage where I keep it. All that rusty stuff under the car doesn't need lubrication anymore.

Dennis.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David_Cockey on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 06:27 am:

The screen in the trans won't cause oil to leak around the pedal shafts, etc. A clogged screen will just result in oil running out of the screen through the hole in the side. A clogged screen won't raise the oil level in the transmission.

Installing the screen can result in a leak around the perimeter of the cover plate if two gaskets weren't used, one between the screen and hogshead, and one between the cover plate and screen, or if one of the gaskets is damaged, or if the screen is badly warped and the cover plate didn't pull down tightly.

It doesn't take much oil to look like there has been a major spill. Be careful how much you put in. Too much oil and you will have leaks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth Harbuck on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 06:40 am:

Randy,

If your coils are oozing tar, it sounds to me like they are either set at too high a current or you are running them on a 12 volt battery and/or leaving them buzzing too long (engine off and timer stopped yet the switch is on).

If you intend to operate them off the battery, reset them to about 1.3 amps. If you intend to operate them off the magneto, they need to be set with a hand-cranked coil tester or a Strobo-Spark. There are plenty of folks that can do this for you, Ron Patterson being one of them.

I have new points but I won't use them. This is one of those things I'd rather someone else do for me. In my case it was Ron. My car runs great and my coils don't leak tar either!

Good Luck!

Seth


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 08:47 am:

I've been noticing this oil leak getting worse for a couple weeks, I'm in Exxon Valdez territory now! It keeps dripping for some time after the engine is shut off, we're talking a puddle of oil at least a foot in diameter, so oil is being trapped somewhere!
All the usual stuff is correct, oil level, 2 gaskets and gasket sealer around the screen, cover installed with bolts and lock washers instead of screws, etc.
I'll know a lot more once I get it back in the barn and pull the floor boards. It's about time to take up the bands a bit anyway.
This car has had ONE band adjustment since sitting idle for about 15 years, and it's been driven quite a few miles since then. Though the trans seems to be working fine, for all I know right now, I could have a whole shreaded band sitting on the screen.
We'll see.

Dennis.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth Harbuck on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 09:36 am:

Dennis,

If you notice lots of oil on the flange of the block beneath the valve cover(s), my bet is that the oil is getting trapped inside those covers because the small drain holes inside are plugged up. Those thin stamped covers (or cover on late models) aren't really the best regarding effective seal, IMO.

Good luck,

Seth


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Monday, December 03, 2007 - 09:42 am:

The front of my engine is reasonabally dry. the oil is coming from the bell housing area.
I had to put 3 quarts of oil in it just to get back to the garage and I'd only driven it about 5 miles since I changed the oil!
I haven't had the opportunity to pull the floor boards yet. I suspect that I'm going to find the trans cover gasket gone or something like that.
I'll start a new topic on this when I figure out what's going on.

Dennis.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Okemah, OK on Monday, December 03, 2007 - 10:08 am:

Starter bendix cover screws loose...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron-Indy. on Monday, December 03, 2007 - 10:29 am:

Dennis,Why don't you look and quit harping on it? We can't help if we don't know what the problem is.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 09:56 am:

"Dennis,Why don't you look and quit harping on it? We can't help if we don't know what the problem is"

Time my friend, time. I still work 40 hours a week and my car is garaged in a different location from my house. If you noticed the last sentence in my last post, I AM through "harping" about it.
Dennis.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 06:28 pm:

"Starter bendix cover screws loose..."

Bingo!
Easy fix, no big deal, a new gasket and some Lock Tite THIS itme!
End of subject.
Dennis.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randy Carlson on Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - 03:07 am:

Update..
Got the new spark plugs in it as well as four new coils and I fired the old bird up. It was running for a bit but would flood out. Took off the carb and cleaned it up...float was stuck. Then got it running again and got it to move under it's own poer...forward and reverse...only stalled it a couple times.

Just when I was aiming out the driveway she stalled on me and wouldnt restart no matter how hard I tried...Im thinking it's a carb problem.

Looks like the manifold gaskets are wasted too...it was puffing out a bit from there. The radiator is leaking too...gotta fix that.

But she's alive! Still a little "sick" but I drove her!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - 10:39 am:

Excellent! I figured that ol' girl was a "driver" just by the looks of her.
NOW, change the oil again, look for non magnetic metal debris in the oil (babbitt) and fiberous material (bands). You will very soon be looking for information on band adjustments.
Dennis.


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