Radiator shell

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2005: Radiator shell
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Sacchi on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 12:21 am:

Will a '26-27 chrome radiator shell fit on a '24 high radiator?

Thanks, Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob S, on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 12:22 am:

I meant to say nickle, not chrome....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken - SAT on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 12:36 am:

Yes, it should fit. The painted shells were used from 23-27. The different part number for the 26-27 is just for the nickle version.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mikeska on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 05:49 pm:

Bob,

It will fit the radiator but if your car is a 24 the hood will not fit the shell. Check one of the vendors catalogs that have the hood measurements. The 26-27 shell is different from the late 23 to 25.

Paul


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Sacchi on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 06:07 pm:

Paul,

You are correct. I just checked the Snyder's catalog, and they say that the 1926-27 shell is slightly different in that it has more of a taper than the 1923-25 shell.

With that said, how much trouble is it to get an original steel painted shell plated?

Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron-Indy. on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 06:09 pm:

Bob, You will find that there is nothing on a Model T that can't be fixed with money.(G) Actually a friend just had one done,cost him $280!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mikeska on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 06:11 pm:

Bob,

The 26-27 nickle shells were made out of brass. In order to plate your steel shell it would first have to be brass plated, polished and then nickle plated. I know it can be done but I would bet that it would cost plenty.

Paul


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Sacchi on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 07:15 pm:

Yikes, I guess black doesn't look too bad, after all! :-)

Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 08:17 pm:

What "taper" are you talking about?

3925D2 Radiator w/shell....... 1923-27
3925E2 Radiator less shell.... 1923-27
3925F2 Radiator w/nickel shell 1926-27

3947C Radiator Shell 1923-27 (painted)
3947D Radiator Shell 1926-27 (nickel)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 08:22 pm:

Ken is right. There is no difference, except for the plating, which was introduced in '25. The reproduction people have a hard time getting things right, including part numbers.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By sethharbuck@bellsouth.net on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 08:50 pm:

Bob,

Isn't natural colored wood spokes enough of a deviation from the way Ford produced your car?

Seth :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Sizemore on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 09:39 pm:

Naturals spokes where an option


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken - SAT on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 10:02 pm:

They were an option beginning in 1925.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alex Alongi on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 11:06 pm:

I believe the Natural wood spokes were an option starting mid 1926. 1927, wires were standard & the natural wood spokes were like a $12 option.

Alex


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Sacchi on Tuesday, November 20, 2007 - 12:14 am:

Ken, I'm sorry. I just repeated what I saw in the Snyder's catalogue (I made the mistake of assuming they knew more about Model T's than I do).

Page T-26, 2006 catalogue, top of 2nd column;

"1926-27 RADIATOR SHELL
The 26-7 radiator shell varied slightly from the 23-5 style in that it was tapered on the sides and a little differently stamped around the neck."

I'm not trying to start an argument, I'm just looking for answers to my questions.

Actually, I'm glad to hear there is no difference. It'll make it that much easier to find what I'm looking for.

Seth, you know how it is with us rebellious radicals - give us an inch, and we'll take a mile. At least I decided to put a magneto in my new rebuild :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave_Sosnoski on Tuesday, November 20, 2007 - 12:32 am:

It is possible that they changed the taper and the stamping around the neck without changing the part number. The only way to find out for sure is to research it in the archives and see if a change is listed in the Change Notice at the start of the 26 model year.

I've always heard that the 26-27 had a different taper to the sides. Since the cowl on the improved cars is wider, the hood meets the radiator at a different angle. But, I've never seen a 24-25 and a 26-27 shell next to each other to actually compare, so this could just be just a myth - or not!

Dave S.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky on Tuesday, November 20, 2007 - 02:02 am:

No apology needed here. I'm going by the parts listings. I have not seen an original 26/7 painted shell next to an original nickel shell. If the taper you speak of is the front-to-back angle of the sides, the original 23-25 shells are "tapered". That's what makes them harder to duplicate. I don't recall noticing a difference in the neck area stamping but that shouldn't keep you from mounting it on a 24 radiator. The nickel shells were an option in late 25 and mounted around the same radiators used from 23-27. There were no changes to the hood in 25 when used with the optional nickel shell nor was there a separate nickel shell listed for 25 alone. And, the late 23 to 25 hoods are the same.

So the logical conclusion would be that a nickel shell should fit the 23-27 using the stock hood for the year of the car. I had an original 26 hood in here for repairs last year. I wish I had kept the measurements. My own doubts are about the fitting of a 26-27 hood on a nickel shell that would have been used in late 25 if the 26-27 hood has longer skirts and top panel radii.

Any one with an "original" 26-27 want to tape measure their hood?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Jeffrey Cole on Tuesday, November 20, 2007 - 10:23 pm:

Hey! Now dang it I know I have looked at a shell on a 27 and the sides were angled outward a tad because of the wider firewall and so forth.Down at the bottom were it goes on the radiator base you can see it is twisted outwards unless I am going "coocoo" that is what I remember.Because I like the nickle shells but saw that and fiqured they wouldnt fit a earlyer car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wade Pack on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 04:42 pm:

Speaking of the shell, how do you remove it? I see it has 2 spring loaded bolts at the bottom, but im stumped.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron-Indy. on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 05:05 pm:

Those two spring loaded bolts are the radiator mounting studs. They have to come off along with the cups on top of them. The 23-27 high shells had two machine screws about 3/4 way up on each side to remove also. (sometimes these are hidding under welting.) Then the shell just lifts up and off.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wade Pack on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 05:24 pm:

Thanks Jack! So the caps come off and expose a bolt? How do the caps come off?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron-Indy. on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 06:51 pm:

There should be a stud with a castelated nut/cotter pin on top. If not,your's is modified.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bruce Spainhower on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 07:30 pm:

Good time of year to ask questions. The car is in pieces and the digital camera is handy. Here's a shot down the side of the nickel shell off my '26 Fordor:

Shell

And here's the same shot down the side of the radiator:

Radiator

The radiator side is square to the front with a support tab for the back of the tapered (or twisted) shell. The shell is 21" wide (inside dimension) at the back, and 20" wide at the front. The radiator is 19-3/8" wide in the front and 16-1/2" from the top of the mounting flange to bottom of the upper tank. The mounting hole centers are 21-1/2" apart.

Hope this helps.

- Bruce


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wade Pack East Texas on Thursday, November 22, 2007 - 02:57 pm:

You guys helped a bunch! Thanks, I will be tapping into your knowledge again soon.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Thursday, November 22, 2007 - 05:56 pm:

Well, since we are getting technical, let me just throw my usual 2 cents into this conversation. The two brackets at the top of the radiator have a small tabs on the inside of the bracket. This is to accomodate a 1/4-20 square nut that Jack was talking about to hold the shell on. The bottom bracket is just there to keep the radiator shell in position. Now, in order for this to work properly, you must use an original size 1/4-20 nut, which is 1/2" across the flats. A standard 7/16 across the flats square nut won't work. Now you guys that claim there is a taper, tell me how this would work!!!!! Anyhow, when I got my reproduction radiator from the Brassworks, they didn't have the correct bracket on the top of the radiator. So, in my usual fashion, I complained, and they said most of their radiators went to hot rodders, and they didn't care anyhow, so I had to find a junk radiator, and remove the original brackets, and pop rivet them on my new radiator. WE SHOULDN'T HAVE TO DO THIS!
Well guys, Happy Thanksgiving.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR. on Thursday, November 22, 2007 - 09:09 pm:

Larry -- That sounds like a cop-out on the part of whoever you talked to at Brassworks. They make special "hot rod" radiators with thicker cores, etc, and will set them up with whatever inlets and outlets you want to accommodate your particular engine setup. I know this because I bought a brass one recently (which looks like a brass-era T radiator) which was made to cool a flathead V-8 with a thick core, pressure neck, and dual upper and lower inlets/outlets. (It cost about $1200.) The original-type ones they make for Model T restorers should be configured as the original radiators were, and I agree that at their prices you shouldn't need to do anything to it but install it on your car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky on Thursday, November 22, 2007 - 09:35 pm:

"Now you guys that claim there is a taper, tell me how this would work!!!!!"

The "taper" is the angle of the sides. The shell is smaller at the front than at the rear so the sides of the shell flare like a funnel. It's shown very well in Bruce's first photo.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bruce Spainhower on Friday, November 23, 2007 - 01:29 pm:

Larry - I just went down to the shop to check. The mounting tab for the 1/4-20 bolt and nut near the top of the radiator is located about 3/4" aft of the lower support bracket (looking from the side). This lines it up with the lacing flange at the back edge of the shell rather than the tapered side of the shell. There's also a recessed detent in the flange at that point, which is flush to the upper mounting tab so the screw head doesn't stick up and hit the hood. If that doesn't describe it well enough, I can still get photos and measurements until Monday when the radiator goes into the pro shop to get flushed and prettied up.

Although I haven't actually seen a '24 radiator (the original question in the thread), I would expect a '26 shell would fit if those tabs are there.

- Bruce


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