"Drove My Chery to Levee"

By Scott Paul

With apologies to Don McLean, we may all be singing "Bye-bye, American jobs" in a matter of months as cars from the Chery Automobile Company of China, spurred on by a sizable investment of technology and capital from Chrysler, start rolling into the United States in 2009.

This is a case study in how China's cheating, and Washington's own failure to stop it, threaten to sink an entire sector of our economy. A revealing piece by Gordon Fairclough in today's Wall Street Journal analyzes the dramatic rise of Chery. Although Chery certainly has some competitive advantages based on China's level of development, many of its gains have been acquired through unfair and illegal practices with the acquiescence of our own government.

In 2005, Chery settled a lawsuit in a Chinese court for essentially knocking off the design of a General Motors vehicle. Anyone notice that "Chery" looks a lot like "Chevy?" Too bad for the marketing department that it doesn't rhyme with "levee."

Some of Chery's major inputs--energy and metals--are heavily and illegally subsidized by the Chinese government at both the provincial and national level. Although China is obligated to eliminate these subsidies, which amount to tens of billions of dollars, they have not. But the U.S. trade bureaucracy seems satisfied with China's promises that it will eventually comply.

The Chinese government's misalignment of its currency gives its manufacturers a forty percent discount when selling in the U.S. market. This is an illegal practice under U.S. law and international agreements, but all we hear from Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and his Chinese counterparts is more jibber jabber.

Chery's workers cannot form independent unions and effectively bargain for better wages and working conditions. Workers on the assembly line earn a little more than a dollar an hour, less than five percent of what an average factory worker in the U.S. earns. No one working at Chery will have the ability to buy the cars they make.

Will an engineering degree provide you with economic security in the U.S.? Not if Chery has a say in the matter. Junior engineers at Chery earn just $6,000 a year and sleep four to a room in company dormitories. For American workers, more education will not result in more employment security unless our government takes dramatic steps to make America more competitive. In fact, forty years of job and income growth for scientists and engineers is coming to an end.

Chery's compliance with environmental laws will likely cost it only about one-tenth of what major U.S. manufacturers pay. Do you think that China's air quality doesn't matter to us, half a globe away? Half of America's mercury pollution originates from overseas. It can take only five days for China's smog to make it to the United States.

We have already seen defective Chinese-made tires, toys, dog food, and countless other goods harm American people and pets. Can we trust Chinese regulators to make sure the cheap Chery cars will be truly safe?

Last, but not least, a health care system that punishes employers for doing the right thing in America has helped the Big Three teeter on the brink of insolvency for the past couple of years. In addition to universal coverage and controlling costs, Congress, the Administration and our Presidential candidates need to be thinking about how health care changes will make America more competitive as well.

American workers, businesses, and consumers should be alarmed by these developments. We've witnessed cheating on patents; lax worker, product safety, and environmental standards; billions in subsidies; and, a misaligned currency--all to fuel Chery's rise. The cheap Chery cars haven't yet arrived, but they have already been costly. Chrysler is laying off 25,000 North American workers and investing part of its future in Chery.

Shouldn't a Republican president be a little more willing to challenge a brutal dictatorship that finances its military buildup with our consumer dollars? By the same token, shouldn't a Democratic Congress be a little more willing to stand up for workers' rights, the environment, and jobs, and challenge China's unfair practices?

Voters are once again anxious about the economy, and rightfully so. Is anyone really listening to them?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/scott-paul/drove-my-chery-t_b_75421.html


For those few of you who don't know, part of the reason Henry doubled the standard factory wage in 1913/14 was to pay his workers enough to buy the results of their work, thereby raising wages all everywhere, multiplying the market for Fords. It worked, huh?

rdr

I agree with all that Ralph - especially your statement regarding economic security for degreed engineers.

Degreed engineers that are 49, that never learned to use CAD and have only worked for one outfit their whole career most definitely do not have economic security.

Time to dust off those "mechanicking tools".

Seth

I visited China two years ago and was amazed. Yes copies of everything are in abundance. I took a photo of a Susuki motorcycle and saw all kinds of knockoff items ranging from watches, purses, and DVDs to mechanical and electronic items. To their credit, the country is trying hard to close down many of the open-air markets and their selling of counterfeit products.

I was amazed at the building boom particularly in Beijing in preparation for the Olympics. I was also amazed that a large part of construction is with scaffolds of bamboo secured with simple lashings.

They are definitely a country to be reckoned with as far as their engineering talent. I'm old enough to remember laughing at stuff made in Japan. But above all this, safety appears to be taking a back seat in many of their factories.

Ralph, the primary reason for raising the wage to $5.00 was because Ford needed an incentive to keep employees. Ford was hiring up to three people for every one they needed on the assembly line; due to the grueling pace and dehumanizing conditions, folks were quitting left and right. In fact, the idea for the $5 day was from James Couzens, Ford's CFO, and Henry was against it at first. Furthermore, not everyone was eligible for that wage - if Ford's "sociological department" found you unworthy (ie. found to engage in activities Ford frowned upon, such as drinking, smoking, insufficient saving habits, etc.) you did not get the $5 per day.

Also, Ford fostered an environment of fear and retribution at his plants, especially in the 20's and later. If you were found to own a car other than a Ford, you were likely to be fired on the spot. Sociological department spies worked on the line next to you, and would report you and have you fired for the slightest of infractions, such as sitting on the job (Ford did not allow sitting while working!).

As far as unions are concerned, it is well known that Ford was virulently anti-union (Ford Motor was the last auto company to recognize the UAW). Getting caught talking about the union (at work or at home) were grounds for dismissal, and occasionally, a beating. Look up "the Battle of the Overpass" or "Harry Bennett", and you will get a clearer picture of what Ford thought of his employees and their right to organize.

Ford was also openly anti-Semitic - read his book, "the International Jew", or copies of his newspaper, the Dearborn Independent. In 1923, there was a "Ford for President" movement taking place in the United States, to which Adolf Hitler remarked to a Chicago Tribune reporter the following - "I wish I could send some of my shock troops to Chicago and other big American cities to help in the elections. We look to Heinrich Ford as the leader of the growing fascist movement in America......We have just had his anti-Jewish articles translated and published. The book is being circulated in millions throughout Germany." In 1938, to celebrate Ford's 75th birthday, Hitler awarded Ford with the Grand Cross of the German Eagle, the highest award Germany could bestow on a foreigner. Even though Ford died in 1947, two years after the end of WWII, he never gave the award back. In addition, Hitler had a portrait of Ford hung in his office.

My point here is that Henry Ford manufactured a nice car that we have fun with today. Idolizing him is a little over the top, in my estimation. Did Henry Ford accomplish some good for people? Yes, he certainly did. Do we need another of his kind? I think not.

Respectfully submitted,

Bob Sacchi

As a contrast, Henry Ford was friends with Rabbi Leo Franklin as well as being personal friends with a Detroit judge who happened to be Jewish. He hired Albert Kahn to design several of his buildings. Fairlane's butcher was Jewish as were over 3000 employees at the Rouge. He was not a saint but he sure did a good job getting us on wheels.

As far as the UAW, did you notice Ford was the only one who didn't have a strike this year?

And in regards to where he is now... Last time I checked, he's resting on the southwest corner of Joy and Greenfield under some wrought iron and concrete. All those cars and he never got a road named after him here in Detroit. And he's buried on a road named for a Packard guy.

Well, maybe I should have read all of Ralph's post before I "agreed with all of that". I too agree with Bob that Henry Ford need not be re-incarnated.

Thomas Edison maybe, but not Henry Ford.

Seth

When Rabbi Leo Franklin learned of Ford's anti-Semitic views, he returned a Model T that Ford had gifted to him, so I'm not so sure their friendship was as healthy as you claim.

Whether or not Ford Motor had a strike in 2007 has no bearing whatever on Henry Ford's reaction to the union in the 1920's, 30's and 40's.

Saying "he was not a saint" is quite an understatement. Nobody's perfect, I agree, but ol' Henry had more than a few negatives (and some of them pretty darn serious ones!) going for him, I'd say.

I'm sorry if I've hurt anyone's feelings and shattered their image of Henry Ford by making my statements. I love my Model T as much as anyone else, but let's get real here! I think it's important for us to put into perspective ALL of the traits of an individual before we decide to make a hero out of him. Would anyone approve of a Volkswagen Beetle collector idolizing Hitler, just because of his role in bringing about that particular car? He did a good job of getting Germany on wheels, too.

Bob

Thanks Bob. Old Henry was an innovator, a shrewd business man, and definitely one of the guys you think of when you say "old fashonied". But to idolize him is over the top, and I won't do it either.

I feel the same way about the company as well. Nice history, they try to keep as many wackos like me happy with celebrations, etc, but that's all. It's there to make money and if it's ever gone I'll be sad but life will go on. I would cherish the memories and vehicles more than the present building and employees (except for my friends that work there) anyhow.

Craig

I also think Bob Saachi has it right. Henry rates as a 'Great Man' but he isn't one of my heros - too many flaws.
I have just two Heros - Beethoven and Fred Lanchester (go look him up, you will be impressed).

So, we have a scale -
Heros - all round greatness
Great Men (or women) - great but some flaws
Celebrities - mostly flaws - Paris Hilton for example

I should probably give greater thought to this reply, but thought I would put in my two cents worth while it was on my mind. It is important to not only vote and be a well informed voter, but one should vote with your dollars as well. When we complain about China but still go to Walmart to buy some "made in China" merchandise because we think we are so smart and we got a good deal, but did we really achieve value in the big picture? When you look at the economic and environmental impact on North America and the world in general, you are actually paying a heavier price than just dollars up front. One of the smartest ways to take over a country, is to take over its economy. This is what China is doing to the America's.......... I live in Canada and unfortunately, we do not have a domestically produced car so it really does not matter as a point of national pride what car
Canadians drive. (Actually, General Motors started off as the Oshawa Carriage Company in Canada but they moved across the big lake to Detroit after getting a better deal from the US government tax wise. So we started to mess things up 100 or more years ago in being competitive in this regard with lack of business vision). .......But I sure see a lot of Mazda, Nissans,Honda's, etc. rolling around in both the USA and Canada. If people were patriotic (and the domestic manufacturers produced quality cars in the eyes of the consumers),there should be fewer imports rolling around. (Personally speaking, it dawned on me a few months, for a fellow who calls himself a Ford man, the 3 vehicles on my driveway were all Chrysler or Dodge). The threats to domestic manufacturing are caused by many aspects, some that Ricks has identified above. Overly militant unions that protect bad employees and cause a huge amount of red tape to employers, lax and non-loyal,non-productive attitudes especially in the younger generations, a disposable attitude towards consumer durables, overly legal attitudes where someone wants to sue someone else at the drop of a hat instead of taking responsibility for their own stupidity, free trade and international agreements that result in international corporations to wield as much power as any elected government, and many other factors all contribute to the mess that we are in and are driving towards. ........ So how can we make the world, or our world a better place to live? By making good choices every day, trying to becoming better informed by NOT just listening to whatever the media alone tells us, and voting carefully with our dollars and helping our North American businesses by buying their products and giving them good feedback in how to make their products better. ( A study called the Moser Report happened about 10 or so years ago. ex: 90 percent of unhappy people will take their business elsewhere if unhappy, but will not tell the first business how they messed up. So businesses have to spend billions of dollars in doing surveys, etc. to find out how people think)...............With regards to Henry Ford himself, he was a complicated man of contradictions, and one could spend a lot of time trying to figure him out. It would definitely be interesting to hear what his solution and direction would be if he was alive today! Well, these are my ramblings for now. Good Luck to us all. ( I prefer to talk straight up T Talk and not get onto the philosophical train, but then again, itfits in with how we Model T guys are, we are always looking for a better way to make the T's run and we like to tinker or maybe be a stick-poker the odd time?)

Bob Sacchi, No feelings hurt here. My comments were to contrast and not in defense of the man. And I know the Rabbi returned his car which surprised Henry Ford. There are no shrines in my shop. There are only piles of car parts.

I brought up the UAW 2007 contract because Ford have come a long way since Clara got fed up with the fighting and told Ford to go union. And, It's been a long time since Harry Bennett rolled someone off a running board.

I like to think T-owners fit somewhere between heroes and great men. Paris Hilton does not deserve comment.

This reminds me very much of a History exam in college where we had to tell whether Andrew Carnegie was a good man or a bad man. It didn't matter what side you decided to come down on, you just needed to support your view. Ten pages in 1 hour. Go!!!!!

I will drive my $440 Model T, no matter how much of that money went to the workers, stock holders, and dealers. The car was still low enough in cost to allow most people to afford a car. I don't know if that is the case today. I haven't bought a new car since 1987. I just can not justify paying $25,000 for a car when I only spent $50,000 on my house.

Tour America,
JC

Don't judge Henry Ford through today's perspective and standards. He was a giant in his time. Anti-semitic views and anti union policies as well as his staunch "morality standard" were not at all out of line for someone born in the 1860s. Today he would be screwed royally by government regulations and the PC police. He was the right man in the right place at the right time, with the right ideas. Remember, when Ford was building his light affordable car, the rest of the industry was targeting the rich with $2,000. and up toys. Sort of an extension of the 1890s. It could have been 30 years before America was rolling on wheels without him.

Mike, are you saying that if it weren't for "the PC police", that it would be OK to have an openly anti-Semitic agenda today, as well? If I'm not mistaken, it sounds like you are trying to excuse Henry Ford.

For your information, there were MANY, MANY people in Ford's day that were just as ALARMED by his views then, as we would be today. Hatred against others because of their race or religion is WRONG, regardless of when or by whom it was practiced.

Even the most evil of people can sometimes do good things for others - it doesn't make them less evil. I guess since ol' Henry got America on wheels we should give him a pass, huh?

Bob

Bob - I think what Mike is trying to say is that there were different attitudes about many things years ago. This is easier to see if you're as old (or older) than I am. When I think about it, as dearly as I loved my parents, and grandparents, they had standards and prejudices that would be totally inexcusable today. A lot of things that are just plain "wrong" were considered in a different light by many people a hundred years or more ago. In fact, in another hundred years, I wonder what our grandkids will think of some of the things that we think and believe in today,............harold

Gonna wax a little strange here, Time's & attitudes change. I used to want to smack my Parents for what they said, sure my daughter would like to do the same to me.

If you can find a copy listen to Billy Holiday's "Strange Fruit" Great big sobering wake up call.

Alex

Harold, I understand all that, and I am fully aware that it was more common, overall, for people to feel that way in those days.

My point is that Ford was blatantly unrepentant of his beliefs till the day he died, even while under great public pressure to repudiate his views.

Did you know that Henry Ford is the only American mentioned in "Mein Kampf"? Do you have any idea how much of an influence his public utterances had on Nazi Germany? This goes much deeper than "just one man's opinion". His actions had severe ramifications for the Jewish population of Europe!

Does this logic also make it OK for Ford to receive a citation from Hitler, the world's most famous Jew-hater? One that Ford refused to return, even while Germany was at war with our country?

Bob

Well,we cant change the past,and unless we really get off our Behinds as a nation, nor will we be able to fix the future.How to fix it,is going to take some thought,and alot of action on the part of ALL Americans.And I seriously doubt the average lazy Walmart shopper is going to change.Most folkes have bought overseas made products.Cant help it nowadays.Try buying a electric drill that is affordable.Unless it says "made in China" it is going to cost out the yingyang.
I cant aggree that we need a Henry Ford clone now,but we could use a man that has alot of his attributes to put America back on the competitive road and back to progress.No company should be forced to pay a man 23 bucks a hour that does a half $$$ job.That is unreasonable.A good working man should be in that postion.Let the lazy go hungrey a while.
The PC "police" should be ignored by us,our goverment and anyone else motivated to make a positive difference in our future.We have listened to those critens long enough.Back in the sewer where they came from with thier rederic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chery_Automobile

Look at all the companys investing in Chery.Chrysler was just 1 of many.

Bob in Ford's world, his beliefs were his business. (even if he expressed them publicly) By the time the forties rolled around, he was a dottering and stubborn old shell of his former self. In those days, someone with his money and power did and said what he pleased. In todays PC bandwagon jumping world, there might have been enough of a backlash to affect his bottom line. In his day, a few high profile people may have stirred the pot, but he kept turning out a product that people bought. Then during the war, even though he was so "sympathetic" to Hitler and the Nazi regime, he sure turned on the war production and did everything in his power to help the allies defeat the Nazis. (unlike his peace ship fiasco during the Great War) Deeds vs words. Being mentioned in "Mein Kampf" is a red herring. It was written in what 23? at the time that the US was booming, and the anarchists and communists were raising all sorts of crap, Public opinion can be shallow and narrow. Henry Ford, even though he was quite friendly to the Kaiser, and later Hitler, was building cars. People just weren't as concerned. (and yes some people agreed with him, if only privately) Blaming any of the massacre of Jews and other innocents on Henry Ford or his being mentioned or honored by Germany prior to WWII is a stretch.

BTW, an inexpensive 20HP car, with a top speed of 40 and two wheel brakes, with no safety equipment, that could be maintained by most folks handy with tools and puked smoke, oil and water a lot would sell like crazy as an in town commuter, but could not be built or perhaps not used on public roads if it was built due to big brother and all the lawsuits that would crop up every time one flopped over. We have brought this on ourselves with our ultra low risk idiot proof society. I don't know what the answer is, but I know it's not import tarrifs, and other trade barriers. When taxes at all levels reach 50% or more of your income, most folks can't afford to buy American.

I live in Taiwan. I have spent time in China. I am Canadian. I avoid buying anything "made in China". Many items you buy are, even if the labels are not obvious (hidden way down in pockets, switched at "factories" in the West, etc). A billion Chinese are going to kill billins of non-chinese with global warming they will be responsible for. When they have used up their natural resources building inferior goods to swamp our economies, and have raped the economies of the West, they will buy up our natural resouces, like locusts. If you have ever taken freedom for granted, go visit China. Chery? I'll walk before even sitting in one. If you are under 35, you better learn Chinese, cos honey, they are at the gates.

Hey, Mike, the German Wehrmacht vehicles that rolled across Poland and France in 1939 were made by Ford Motorworks of Germany, two years before the German govenrment took over those factories from Ford's control.

As for Henry Ford's "patriotism", before the US went into WWI, he said he would personally tear his factory down "brick by brick" before he would allow it to manufacture war supplies. Once we were in the war, and he had no choice but to make munitions (due to public pressure), he promised he would return his percentage of the profits to the US government, which he never did (deeds versus words). And as you say, if by the Forties (WWII, that is) he was a "dottering and stubborn old shell of his former self", how could he personally have had ANYTHING to do with supplying the Allies with munitions? It was through the efforts of Edsel Ford and Henry Ford II that Ford Motor helped the Allies, not Henry Ford Sr.

I never blamed Ford directly for the Holocaust - those were your words, not mine. However, since you bring up the subject, in respect Ford's anti-Semitic beliefs having anything to do with the extermination of Jews in Europe being "a stretch", let me quote a person who had a hand in indoctrinating the next generation of men for the "Fatherland":

"You have no idea what a great influence this book (the International Jew) had on the thinking of the German youth. The younger generation looked with envy to the symbol of success and prosperity like Henry Ford, and if he said the Jews were to blame, we naturally believed him". - Baldus von Schirach, head of the Hitler Youth, at the Nuremberg trials, 1946

How could being the ONLY American mentioned in "Mein Kampf" (the Nazi Party manifesto, their "Bible") possibly be called a "red herring"? Did you even bother to read my post about what Hitler had to say about his admiration for and inspiration from Henry Ford? The author of "Mein Kampf" was not just "some anarchist"; in case you didn't know, it was written by ADOLF HITLER, the man responsible for the slaughter of 6 million Jews (and a few millions of other people, as well).

Bob Sacchi

It's too easy to mix Henry Ford, the Industrialist, with Henry Ford, the social meddler. He was a farsighted, daring industrialist, the likes of which we need so badly today. Henry believed in profit from making things. He despised those who profited only at the expense of others - the financiers - who he saw as all Jews. Indeed, the financiers don't produce anything; they just profit from the work of others, and today at less than half the tax rate of wage earners.

Anti-Jewish Christian teachings go back to the money changers scorned in the bible. It was sinful in the Christian Middle Ages to handle money, or lucre, so it fell to the Jews to be bankers and financiers. Henry Ford did not invent anti-semitism; he was taught. That doesn't excuse it, and it's not what made him the man who put the world on wheels.

Henry Ford did far less to help the Third Reich than DuPont and Standard Oil, who built a tetra-ethyl lead facility in Nazi Germany in the 1930s. Without that, Germany would not have had the high powered fighters and bombers.

It's been written that the Nuremburg trials should have been continued in New Jersey.


rdr

Sorry Bob, I didn't mean to put words into your mouth, the quote, that Fords words "had severe ramifications for the Jewish population of Europe" led me to believe that's what you were pointing out. It's pretty much pointless to try and analyze from our current social mores the motivations of Ford 70-90 years ago, I'm not going to presume as to what the discussions, arguments and management drivers were at Ford during the 30s. It just bothers me when any contributing factors to the likely most evil man in the 20th century are brought into the discussion, although I realize that it isn't, it strikes me as a "mitigating factor" as if Hitler was not the pure evil he was, and it can lead to the speculation that perhaps if it weren't for Ford, everything would have worked out without the murder of as many as 15 million Jews and Gentiles alike. I'm a little sensitive to that, from growing up having an uncle with a camp tattoo, and hearing stories of relatives no longer with us.
Bottom line, Ford had ugly anti semitic views, was not always a pleasant man for whom to work, but he introduced revolutionary ideas into industrial production for the betterment of our society as a whole. Would we have been better of if Henry Ford not existed, none of his ugly views had been promulgated, and his industrial contributions not happened? I think not. I'll bow out of this thread, It's drifting too far from the reason I'm here, to become as well versed as possible concerning the "Ford Universal Car" so as to enjoy my fetish for things old and mechanical, and hopefully pass this wonderful avocation down to my kids and anyone else interested.

No, Mike, I'm sorry. I hope my posts haven't revived any painful memories for you. That certainly wasn't my intention.

I will agree with you in that Ford was a visionary who knew how to build cars (actually, he was a visionary who knew how to surround himself with men who knew how to build cars), and that he "put America on wheels".

I feel it is important to keep historical facts in mind (unlike H.F., who was quoted as saying "history is more or less bunk") when we make such statements as "where is Henry Ford? We need his kind, NOW!" Is it possible to love your Model T without putting Henry Ford on a pedestal? I think so, and I do.

Ralph, of course it is too easy to mix HF the industrialist with HF the social meddler - they occupied the same body! As much as you don't want to admit it, it wasn't as if HF had a twin brother that spouted this garbage - they were the same person. As for the financiers, yes they do produce something - they provide the capital that allows business to survive. How do you recommend that new businesses get their start up-money? From the government (a.k.a. socialism)? How would have Ford Motor Company started without borrowed money from others?

And when you say that DuPont and Standard Oil did "far more to help the Third Reich", if that were true, does that mitigate Henry Ford's role? Furthermore, did you ever stop to think that sometimes fostering ideas can be more dangerous that helping someone financially? (BTW, the jury is out as to whether Ford didn't help the Nazis, as well.)

Bob

After getting all this negative education about Henry the man I fail to see how the enjoyment of the hobby won't be tainted somehow. Henry's life could have remained separated from the car itself, but no way here on this forum.

I'm glad I know so much less about Henry than those that have studied his life. I'd prefer to keep it that way.

I'll be the last person to put him on a pedestal for providing us with the model T. Ford's engineers get all the credit for that as far as I'm concerned.

Seth

Henry Ford wasn't the only American Hitler liked. I understand Hitler liked American people in general because they made no apologies for overruning the American Indians during the 1800s. It fit in with his view of social Darwinism.

People with small minds often try to make political hay by using out of context references from times gone by to attempt to sway modern thinking. For example look at the picture Ralph Ricks has posted. In the years leading up to World War II the international banking community was not under any constraint as to who they should loan money to or not loan money to. Deals were closed because they made business sense. George Bush's grandfather was making loans to Germany with the full knowledge and support of the Treasury and the Roosevelt administration. When war was declared many things changed and the issuance of loans to Germany was only one of thousands of things that took time to rework.

Trying to say that Mr Bush's grandfather was somehow a criminal Ralph? He was only doing his job. Why not put John F Kennedy's father's name up on the marqee instead? He was actually a criminal, responsible for organized crime all along the east coast that resulted in murders, racketeering, smuggling, international bank fraud and tax evasion to name only a few of his crimes.

I think that you are smart enough to know a cheap shot Ralph. Should Edward Kennedy be thrown out of the Senate because his father was a criminal? George Bush's grandfather was not a criminal.

Henry Ford was not alone in being a pig headed racist back in those days. Quotes from Lyndon Johnson or Charles Lindbergh back in the days before WWII are not something I would even type in quotation. Lindbergh madfe a series of anti Jewish speeches even as late as 1941. Lindberg actually moved to Germany in 1938 to be closer to Hitler after receiving an award for helping the Luftwaffe.

When war was declared on Germany and Lindbergh tried to get employed to aid the war effort in the USA the only person who would hire him was Henry Ford.

Royce

Hi All
I seldom post here, but enjoy Model T Fords as much as anyone. This thread has nothing to do with them. NOTHING!!
Look at who started it. Read between the lines. Ralph Ricks, who started this thread, hates George Bush and anything Republican or conservative. This thread is nothing more than an attempt to promote his liberal agenda. I hate to get personal on this, but I've seen to many peaceful forum(s) ruined by one person that does nothing but start arguments. Remember the piano tuner from Miami???:
Having said that, there have been some very interesting points made. It would make for some very interesting discussion - on an appropriate forum.

Thank you to Mike Cullen and Ralph Ricks for putting some real perspective relative to "Bob" villifying the greatest industrialist on the face of the earth. And finally, thank you Henry Ford, for putting the world on wheels.

"Most people can't think, most of the remainder won't think, the small fraction who do think mostly can't do it very well. The extremely tiny fraction who think regularly, accurately, creatively, and without self-delusion- in the long run, these are the only people who count."

very interesting stuff, good reading