i was reading the thread on warford gearboxes and it got me wondering. if you started with a stock short block with aluminum pistons and added an aluminum flathead [or perhaps an alum overhead kit maybe soon??] with tube headers and manifolds,a distributor and coil ignition that allows the removal of coil plate and magnets from the transmission,a 12volt alternator and an alloy warford then the whole unit could get a lot lighter....the last lump left is the starter hogshead, which weighs a lot in cast iron.
my question is; has anyone adapted a starter to an early aluminum hogshead? it seems a properly made alloy tube with a square flange on one end and a receiver for the cover on the opposite end, the hogshead could be machined to allow the tube to nest ,weld and then remove the inner areas of the tube to clear the flywheel etc. it may even allow the addition of a light "reduction" type starter...almost anything is lighter than a stock unit!

anyone?

Why??? They sell high performance 4 cylinder engines at every junk yard in the country. They say Toyota and Datsun and Volvo and whatever all over them.

Seriously, the problem with the Warford is not the overall weight of the power plant, it is hanging a heavy item about 18 inches behind the last support the pan has, the frame ears.

The new Warfords are probably better and the old aluminum ones weren't too bad but I wouldn't hang anything like that on the back of something I was going to drive very fast. The old ones I mean---the iron case Warfords, Chicagos, etc.

Excellent idea on the aly hogshead, Willis. Unless you are too weak to crank it, though, seems like it would be too much work and expense to be worthwhile. That said, I should do some work so the Fronty will start easily when cold. I maybe should put an aircraft style primer on it.

Being an old airplane guy, I am conscious of excess weight. First weight savings should be a diet for me.

The Frontenac head must weigh about 40 pounds more than stock iron head. A Z head gets a lot of the performance with lowered weight.

The weight of an aux tranny on that long moment arm is serious. Bracing it to the frame is only a partial fix, as the frame flexes - a lot. It might be better run long bolts from the bosses on the '26-7 block to the rear of the aux tranny.

Too bad there isn't a way to put bosses on the earlier engines.

rdr

Everyone is free to do what they want and it's often interesting to see what comes of it.

This is just me but if I was looking for performance I wouldn't be in this hobby. My goal in life since age 10 has been to slow down as much as possible and it doesn't hurt if everyone around me has to slow down because of it. Not just talking cars here by the way but the Model T is, for me, the benchmark for living.

Life's all about the tangents.

Warren, I agree. It is none of anybody else's business what I do and how I do it and none of mine what they do. It just seems to me that the weight of the Model T engine can be over come pretty easily for more performance, which is the ultimate goal of making it all lighter. I personally don't give a rat's ass what anybody does but I do reserve the right to think what I think about it when I see what they did. If they don't want opinions on their musical ability they shouldn't sing in public.

stan
of course there are good engines out there,,i prefer a honda ap1 from an s2000..2liters,250 hp.

seriously, i should have said i have a totally restored stock '14 touring [mag only,smooth white tires etc] and a literally untouched but drivable '24 coupe that is driven every day and will stay unrestored as long as i own it.

however i also have a speedster i built in the mid '70s and would like to redo some stuff as time and $$ allows. my comment was more a question of overall weight of the engine as opposed to just the warford..i just bought a new one and aside from being a really well engineered item, you can actually pick it up by yourself!!as i have a few alloy hogsheads around from the '14 project i just thought an additional weight savings might be possible.

also it might be noted just how light the t block casting is..again, completely gutted it can also be carried around[try that with a model a!]..it's all the other stuff that makes the complete unit a
great boat anchor.

Good luck welding on that old Aluminum housing. We have an early 1911 with a piece out of it and one welder said he couldn't get it to weld. The older aluminum is just to dirty.

Had a nice (was) fatman wheel spyder that cracked one leg and my welder guy had a heck of a time trying to make the new wire stick to the old stuff - he said same thing - impurities in the old stuff ! Cleaned up O.K. but not sure I trust the weld.

There was a thread a while back (six months) about a person with foundry experience who has cast some four main engines. I think they might have been aluminium (alloy of course) but don't recall. That would be a light weight power plant.

Anybody remember that thread?

I wonder what alloy the hogshead is? Modern castings have magnesium in them I think for machinability.

I just fixed some 1914 aluminum. (Hood) It wasn't bad at all. It's a different alloy though. The hood seemed like it was dead soft. There's a couple of alloys on the non-ferrous chart Ford could have used for the housings. One is high zinc and the other is high copper. (Not die cast) That could be the reason for the difficulty in welding.

From experience I know that alloy trans covers and early manifolds are buggers to weld... I know one very capable welder who will not touch them. Luckily there is another who is more capable, and determined.

Dads speedster was built with weight in mind, using alloy head/trans cover/manifold and tube headers. For what is a virtually standard engine it goes lke a rocket. 3:1 gearing is easy to pull.

As for a starter motor and battery...

what! are your arms painted on?

Cheers

Anthony

Michael, I'm not sure, but I think the fellow with the 4 main engine was Les Schubert, up in Canada.

Also, try this link:

www.zakiras.com

Bob

A link to the specific page....

www.zakiras.com/Products/Products_DetailPage.asp?id=3

A little out of my price range.....

Bob

Five main engine. It was in Canada but it wasn't Les. Les has the five main crank that fits that block.

I'm gonna sit by Warren.
I just got home from work and I'm sleepy, so forgive me I seem a bit incoherent.

If I want to go fast, I'll do it in a Buick, not a Ford. I don't want to go fast anymore though, that's why my Buicks are for sale. Stupid troopers sittin everywhere wanting to bother me for 10-over instead of border-jumpers, meth heads, and punks that can't pull their pants up who are causing the real problems for other people. Anyway, I got my T because I wanted to slow down, and of course with a TT I slowed down a lot. Didn't think I'd like it, swore I'd put the Warford in it asap to speed up a bit. Ain't gonna happen...I like TT slow just fine. Hal told me it was better and I didn't believe him, but he was right. You miss a lot going faster than 20. Reminds me of back when I was a kid and would take off on the bicycle (something my kids can't do because the law is more worried about whether I'm wearing a seatbelt or if I'm smoking in a restaurant than huntin down & shootin the pedophiles that force us to keep our kids locked away) and ride all day. You see a lot of things at bicycle speed that you miss going 55-80.
I guess I want the opportunity to go a little quicker, or I wouldn't be trying to put a speedster together. But a T ain't gonna be "fast". To me fast is the quarter-mile in less that 12 seconds with a multi-carbed 425 or 455 Buick. It's not fun anymore. Hitting things hurt a lot more now, and somwhere along the line I lost that attitude that I was invincible. My kids have grown up fast, I'm getting older faster, and whether I want to or not everything about me is slowing down. Like Warren said, everyone else around me can slow down too or go around.

I guess I just said a whole lot that means little or nothin to nobody but me. Dave, get you some good bank sand, build a cope and drag, go to the scrap yard and snag some aluminum intake manifolds from those rice-burnin cars (it's good aluminum because they got it from US), and cast yourself a trans cover. I have never cast anything that large, but over the years if I needed something that wasn't available, I'd cast it and machine what needed. Just gotta allow for shrinkage. That's the way the racers back in the day did it. Vic Edelbrock didn't go looking for what he needed, he made a pattern, melted some aluminum and poured it in a sand mold. Oh, and he sure didn't listen to those that said he couldn't do it. Neither did Henry, or we wouldn't have our toys. :-)
Ray

I am looking into getting a 5 main aluminum block cast. The patterns I already have from the 5 main cast iron block project can be used. I don't plan to make more than one.
I am contemplating a aluminum hogshead to fit the 26-7 block but it will have a 3 speed sliding gear transmission incorporated into it. This will be a copy of a offering made in 27 up here in Canada. I have now found two originals and have had a set of gears made for a third one.