New Speedometer Book

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2005: New Speedometer Book
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Russ Furstnow on Friday, January 04, 2008 - 11:30 am:

I'm nearing completion of a new speedometer book that describes the history of the inventors and their manufacturing companies. It also includes a highly detailed summary of the components used in a speedometer assembly by year and manufacturer. I want the book to supplement the 1995 Speedometer book I wrote for the MTFCA, so I don't want to repeat what was written in that book. The book will be completed for the Chickasha Swap Meet.

The reason for this post is to ask each of you if there is anything you would like to see in a new speedometer book. I want the book to be informative, interesting and helpful to the restorer. So far, I have over 400 new photos and original documents for the book.

Thanks for your help,
Russ Furstnow


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Townsend, Gresham, Orygun on Friday, January 04, 2008 - 12:27 pm:

Russ-

I sure hope that someone who knows more about speedometers than I do chimes in. I think all of us have "some speedometer parts" but don't have enough for a complete set of anything. It might be helpful to have a specific parts identification guide to know what is needed for a set up as well as to know what parts can be mixed and matched.

Also might be nice to know what modern alternatives are available and which modern drive set ups work with which original heads...

-Keith


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Russ Furstnow on Friday, January 04, 2008 - 01:44 pm:

Thanks Keith,
The specific parts guide will be covered in depth, with many photos. Unfortunately, each company used unique parts for their speedometers, so there was virtually no "mixing and matching" of anything!! The Ford Special was the only exception to this rule and these units were only available in 1915. Hopefully the new book will clarify what you have and what you need to look for. Thanks for your comments, Russ


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary London on Friday, January 04, 2008 - 01:54 pm:

Hi Russ.

Two thoughts come to mind.

1)One is for right hand drive vehicles. Were the speedo drives on the left or right wheels? Were there special parts for the very early cars, or were they even supported? Were Ford Specials used in the 1913-15 period? If so did they use a special bracket or arm on the left or did they drive from the right wheel? What would the housing lengths be and how would they route? If so where on the dash would they mount the head?


2) I think many of us have lots of 'other' speedometer parts like brackets, mounts and gears that don't belong with Fords but we have no idea what they are for. Perhaps an apendix or section that has any 'other' information with manufacturers, part numbers, and pictures? This might not be practical at all, I just thought it might help get some of the 'other' parts back into circulation.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Friday, January 04, 2008 - 02:00 pm:

The outer layer of the spiral wound semi-modern cable I'm using with an early Model 26 Stewart is wound backwards for the application, meaning it tends to unwind when drag is applied. Will your book discuss using semi-modern cables? Are there cables available that are wound the other way 'round?

Thanks,
rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Bishop on Friday, January 04, 2008 - 02:11 pm:

Is there any information on hubodometers?? A Model T friend of mine has one on his 23 Model T and I would like one just to keep track of mileage. Thanks, Harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kim Dobbins on Friday, January 04, 2008 - 02:53 pm:

Thanks for your efforts on this Russ, I use your speedo book quite a bit. How about including a picture of that little gear wrench for the 1911 stewart?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron-Indy. on Friday, January 04, 2008 - 02:59 pm:

Russ,Please also include pictures and procedures for installing chain on the Stewarts. That has always been a toughie. Thanks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger A. Price on Friday, January 04, 2008 - 03:19 pm:

Russ,
Thank you for your effort and for opening it up to suggestions and additions.
I personally, since I don't know how to install speedometers, would like to know how the installation is accomplished and what parts I would need to do the job. For example, I have a Stewart (magnetic type) with a horizontal speedometer with a season milage and trip odometer.
Sorry I can't give you more info.
Thanks.
Rog


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Russ Furstnow on Friday, January 04, 2008 - 05:01 pm:

Thanks for the suggestions! I have included many more manufacturers and their parts than in the first book. Included will be the complete offerings by Jones, Standard, Corbin-Brown, Warner, NorthEast, A.C., Johns-Manville, Patterson, Nash and F.W. Stewart. I am covering these companies from 1908-1927 and will provide info on applications for the Ford and many other cars. (Both right hand, left hand and transmission mounts).

There is a complete chapter on Electric cars and commercial trucks (odometers included).

By the way, It appears that Ford Specials were installed by Ford in very late 1914 thru mid-1915 ONLY. I'll get a photo of the 1911 tool for Kim, and I'll see what I can do about cable restoration.

Keep the suggestions coming, and thanks again, Russ


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Russ Furstnow on Friday, January 04, 2008 - 05:05 pm:

Roger, I forgot to tell you that a complete chapter is set aside with installation instructions. Russ


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush on Friday, January 04, 2008 - 08:43 pm:

That will be great. The first one has info on AC, but not a lot. Info on what can be done as far as replacing the pot metal castings, or who can make new ones would be good. A good current list of people that repair and or have replacement parts would be fantastic! I got a great AC speedometer head, except the casting that hold the magnet is blowing apart.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By RDupree on Friday, January 04, 2008 - 09:02 pm:

Russ-

A couple of thoughts. One is transmission driven speedometers (is that what you mean by Patterson) and the model 490 for the later car owners.

Thanks
Ron Dupree


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould on Friday, January 04, 2008 - 10:03 pm:

Really looking forward to your book, Russ. I'm am sure it will be another valuable resource. Only one complaint. Before your first book, speedometer equipment sold pretty cheap. Afterwards prices were sky high. Ha!
Hey Frank, where's that pig??


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce Peterson on Friday, January 04, 2008 - 11:34 pm:

Russ,

Glad to hear of the new project. I am going to be at Chikasha and hope to buy a copy from you there.

Royce


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Saturday, January 05, 2008 - 01:12 am:

Hey Russ - did you know that Ford assigned a Factory number to the small speedo knurled nut wrench.

The Factory numbers for those unique 1911 parts were:

Speedometer Driven Gear Nut (knurled round thing) was 3123

Speedometer Driven Gear Nut Ratchet Spring (this is the tanged washer behind the nut) 3124

Speedoemter Driven Gear Nut Wrench was 3583

Do you already have this info?

I think there is a listing of the parts in the Model T Accessories listing at the Archives.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Russ Furstnow on Saturday, January 05, 2008 - 09:42 am:

John, I have the Stewart numbers but did not have the Ford numbers. I have photographs in the book with these parts.

Mark, The new book will have the complete line of A.C. products with some history. Many new photos and more info. Sorry, but I have no idea about anyone re-casting pot metal so that won't be addressed.

RDupree, The Patterson and Nash Transmission drives are covered in detail, with many photos. Also the 490 is addressed in detail.

Thanks again for the suggestions. These really help, Russ


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger A. Price on Saturday, January 05, 2008 - 07:43 pm:

Russ,
Thank you. I'll be on line to buy the next issue.
Rog


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Victor Bloxsomepeugeotrescue@bigpond.com on Saturday, January 05, 2008 - 08:28 pm:

Russ, I have a NOS Patterson lid assy with 10 tooth fibre pinion to install on my 1927 pickup with balloon 21 inch tyres and 13-40 high gear.I posted on this theme a while back and was advised by a reader of the combinations except for mine, I also mentioned my intentions of replication of this 10 tooth drive pinion but so far other jobs have taken precedence.
There were both 4-start and 5-start bronze gearshaft output worms, do you have the info? Are any repro fibre pinions being made in other teeth numbers? Would ABS PLASTIC stand the oil and heat if these were to be computer 3D printed?

Thanks and all the best for the New Year.
VICTOR >>> Tropical, humid and flooding Brisbane, AUSTRALIA.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Leming on Sunday, January 06, 2008 - 10:27 am:

Russ - I cant wait for the new book - I have been enjoying the old one and installing a speedometer on my 24 coupe! Thanks for all the hard work !


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Russ Furstnow on Sunday, January 06, 2008 - 11:12 am:

Victor,
Here is what I know about the Patterson: There are four spiral pinion gears: a 10, an 11, a 12 and a 13 tooth gear. The gears were stamped indicating the number of teeth. I don't know anyone reproducing these gears. In the parts book I have, there is only one bronze drive gear idenified, and it is a four start gear. This bronze gear comes apart in two pieces and is held together with two cotter pins. This is probably not too much help.

As far as repoducing the pinion, I think ABS plastic would be fine if the pinion and drive gears are properly aligned. Some of the reproduction gears have been made with a product called Delron.

I hope this helps,
Russ


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth Harbuck on Sunday, January 06, 2008 - 11:35 am:

Victor,

If ABS is used, non-petroleum lubricants should be used with them since petroleum products will attack ABS. Silicone-based lubricants are fine.

If petroleum lubricants are used, Delrin (acetal copolymer) or nylon (polyamide) would be a better choice. Delrin has an advantage over nylon in dimensional stability when molding. Nylon's advantage over Delrin is fatigue resistance though in this application fatigue resistance is probably a non-issue.

Seth


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dena & Dennis Gorder on Monday, January 07, 2008 - 09:03 pm:

If anyone is interested I have placed a AC speedometer sprocket for sale on ebay. It was mounted to a Model t 21" wood wheel.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed Niedzielski on Monday, January 07, 2008 - 11:42 pm:

Hi, I too have a tranny mounted speedo setup that I have little information about. Any additional information would be great on this very obscure part.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush on Saturday, February 02, 2008 - 07:33 pm:

If 30X3.5 tires and 21 inch tires both are approx 30 inches in dia. Using an AC setup with direct drive, what is the correct tooth count for the driven gear? Is it 20 or 21. So far being unable to find a 20 tooth driven gear, if that is what's needed, how much off would the speed indicated on the speedometer be if one was to use the 21 tooth gear with 30 tires?
Thanks
MarkG


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Russ Furstnow on Sunday, February 03, 2008 - 09:45 am:

Mark, The AC parts books state that a 30" tire takes a 20 tooth cupped pinion gear. The cupped pinion gear and direct drive were introduced for the Improved Fords in 1926, so most of the gears you find are the 21 tooth type. A completely different drive, used on the right wheel, was available in 1922-1925. As for accuracy, it will make a difference. Hope this helps, Russ Furstnow

By the way, the book is at the printer and should be ready for sale in two weeks. The book has 180 pages and over 350 photos, graphs and tables with some color pages.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush on Sunday, February 03, 2008 - 02:18 pm:

Thanks, yes. I'll keep looking.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By EDWARD R LEVY on Sunday, February 03, 2008 - 02:44 pm:

Russ,
First a sincere thanks for all of your efforts on behalf of this hobby. I own a 1916 touring car. I has no speedometor but sometime down the road I was thinking about installing one. Any thughts on finding a good unit? Any problems I should expect in the process?. I will be at Chickasha this spring looking for help & possible purchase of spedo. I have no experience in this area of Model T repair & I don't want to
get into the project if its going to be an unreliable thing, constant repair etc. On the other hand its a nice period accessory. See you at Chickasha. This year my wife who is 16 years my junior & thinks an antique car is a '60s Mustang will not be joining me. She said" you old guys keep trying to convince us that the $$$$$$$ you spend on these cars is an investment. If its an investment lets sell that car & see how much money we make !! (followed by much laughter)
Edward R.Levy


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush on Sunday, February 03, 2008 - 03:54 pm:

Russ could you contact me off line.
magregush@juno.com


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Russ Furstnow on Sunday, February 03, 2008 - 11:42 pm:

Ed, I will have some complete setups at Chickasha. These are restored and ready to install. Come by and see us in the north west building. Russ


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron-Indy. on Monday, February 04, 2008 - 12:25 am:

Russ,hopefully you will bring some of the new books to Chickasha with you?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By johnd on Monday, February 04, 2008 - 09:58 am:

Russ save me a few of your new Speedo books also danuser88@socket.net, see you in Chickasha


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Russ Furstnow on Monday, February 04, 2008 - 10:08 am:

I will be bringing the books to Chickasha along with my leather goods. I'm looking forward to seeing everyone in a few weeks. Russ


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