Hey, I'm a new T owner, 22 yrs old, and have a 1916 Model T Racer my great uncle recently built for me (lucky, huh?!). I never had much interest in T's before, but after driving several, they have to be about the most fun car I've ever driven. Who ever thought you could have so much fun going so slow!!!
I purchased a header plate from Lang's in order to make my own exhaust header with the exhuast pipe going straight down the side of the car. I plan on going with 1 3/4" exhaust for the headers coming off of the motor and 3 1/2" exhaust pipe down the side of the car. Anybody had any experience doing this? Any tips/suggestions? I've seen a lot of pics on the NWVS site and other T's, but was wondering if anyone who had some experience making their own had any tips?
Thanks for the help!
If anyone has close up pics, they'd be greatly appreciated...I'm still trying to figure out exactly how I want to do it. I probably should have mentioned earlier that I will be using a MIG welder too...
I'm not sure what type of intake manifold or carburetor you will be running on your speedster, however here if the flathead manifold header plate and high volume intake manifold setup we offer.
We start out with a .500 thick header plate that is then ground perfectly flat. The exhaust ports measure 1 7/16 ID, while the intake measure 1 3/8 ID. If you will be running an up draft as shown, you will not be able to utilize anything larger that 1 5/8 OD for your pipe. Not the tight fit between the exhaust ports and updraft intake pipe.
I hope this information helps. Let me know if you have any other questions.
Sorry, I should have specified the intake and carb. I'm using the stock Model T intake manifold and a Holley NH carb. I guess one of the things I'm concerned about is how to clamp the intake manifold to the header plate. I know I won't be able to use the stock manifold clamps for this, so are there any idea's for this as well?
Here is a header / manifold on a T engine that just sold on Tbay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=003&sspagename=STRK% 3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=130188728307&rd=1
As constructed, it won't work with the stock manifold and carb but it is an interesting picture to look at.
I also acquired a header plate from Lang's, but was disappointed in it being so thin. You mentioned a .500 flange which I think would be great. I remember reading somewhere on this forum about someone producing 3/8" flanges, but haven't been able to find it. Do you know where one of these thicker flange plates can be purchased....Byron
This is the setup we ran in the '99 Greatrace, and before and after. It's 3/8 bar. It took a lot of work to mount and dismount the intake. I made sleeves for intake seal from brass P trap tube, cut to about 1/2" length.
Note the exhaust leak at the forward edge of #1. I should have sleeved the exhaust, too. Even 1/2" bar might warp if there's no protection from the hot gas.
Ricks - Surf City
Thanks for the pic...thats along the line I was thinking. Do the brackets work well for clamping down the intake manifold? Those seem easy enough to make.
They were not hard to make, except to get them to exact length. I tried putting a bolt in the center of each one for tightening the intake, but it proved unworkable the way I did it. The whole thing is a pain to install and remove. There are nuts under the brackets that hold the exhaust flange, and no room to get a socket on them.
I have much as Ricks but I use the full lenght studs with a straight bar of metal (where his are bent)across the back of intake. I used the full lenght gasket between the head and the header plate. The intake is sealed against the plate with the copper seal rings.
On this set up I used a SBC lakestyle kit from Speedway It gives you the 3 1/2 inches at the rear of the cone to run down the side of the car. And for the price $144.00 you can make two of them, one to keep and one to sell to pay for yours. On the intake clamps, I used a set of old T clamps with one ear cut off.
The header plate was one that Dave Baur makes. The way I made it the header bolts up first using stock T glands between the plate and block then tighten the nuts down for the header. when tight put the intake on using two more gland between the header plate and intake then put the T clamps on and tighten the nuts. Real easy for one person to install no need for two more hands.
Brett- before you build your header go to the web site below and download this tech article from Burns Stainless. If you have never fabricated a header using u-bends, this article will give you an idea of how to do it correctly. Nothing makes a header look more funky than poorly fit up components. Burns specialized in stainless components, but the fabrication techniques are the same regardless of the material you are using.
If you can't locate an acceptable header flange, send me an e-mail at email@example.com. I can probably help you.
Good luck on your project!
Brett, I've built several "lake" pipe sets for traditional hot rods and I just order the mandrel-bent U pipes from Speedway. Since most of the engines used in traditionals are 50's Olds, Buicks, Cadillacs, or other non-typical (as far as aftermarket suppliers are concerned) I have to make the flanges as well. Here is a picture of my 31 Plymouth w/Studebaker engine a couple years ago when I had most everything mocked up. Three U-pipes and a couple megaphones from Speedway were used. They'll be sent for Jet-Hot coating if I can ever quit T'ing long enough to get back interested in the hot rods again. All the joints are MIG welded. By the way, those pipes were about 3 weeks old at that time. Thanks to our Ky jungle humidity, they looked like they had been in a creek for a few years!
Wow, thanks for all the info guys. John, those headers are exactly the look I'm going for...a nice tapered pipe into the headers and a 3 1/2" pipe down the side of the car. That looks like a good method of clamping down the plate...I'll have to use that on mine as well.
We currently offer the complete kit as shown above (less the carburetor) with all mounting hardware and gaskets. The header plate started out .500, however after surfacing is about .425. Click on my name for my e-mail address. If you have any further questions, please let me know.
Dual Holly set up
TT Driveshaft tube for exhaust pipe run down the side of the car.
I like the look of dual sidedrafts ;-)
Regular 21-25 NH swaybacks ?
How does it run?
How much need for adjusting the needles after startup?
The holly nhs are standard ones. There is an equalizer tube 1" in diameter between the two you can see in the the picture. The front carb does most of the work, then you tweak the rear to feel. The one kicker is if you have a hot day then a cold it can be a bear to syncronize, but once its right, I hit 72 mph on the milwaukee mile with standard 3 to 1 rear end and a standard high head engine.
Here is what I run. It has a 3 1/2" pipe and we use a Stromberg 97 downdraft carburetor turned sideways on the manifold so it reduces the two intake port issues of the Model T. We have chevy valves and 373" lift on a Model A cam so the valve action allows us to use #44 jets in the carburetor. This gives us 71 miles an hour in the quarter mile at 18.6 seconds with a T crank and an aluminum head with 30 over pistons. The 3 1/2 exhaust pipe has a cone welded to the front end of it and it makes a bold statement.
Just thought I'd post an update on the topic...thanks to all those who helped; I got a lot of good ideas. I was home from college for the weekend, so I made the exhaust system (it took me most of the weekend). So far, it seems to work pretty well, although it is quite loud! I like the sound of it, but I'm not sure the local authorities will!
Any thoughts on making it quieter? I don't really want to put a muffler on it since I like the looks of the straight pipe down the side, but a muffler similar to a "Cherry Bomb" might look okay. I like the sound, but again, I'm not sure how others will feel about it, particularly those with flashing lights on top of their car!
Also, what type of paint is best to use? I used a ceramic header paint (Duplicolor, I think?) that said it was good up to 1200 degrees, but when I fired it up for the first time, the paint started smoking and bubbling within 5-10 seconds...I can't imagine it got that hot that fast.
Here's the pics of the setup, although the car is minus the hood for now
Retarded timing will make the exhaust extra hot and loud. It's quiet enough if you keep the timing advanced, and you will set off just enough car alarms to be entertaining.
I make baffles to go inside on the hot rods. That way there isn't an exposed muffler, but it does knock dont the noise enough to keep the law at bay. As far as I'm concerned, they can bite me if they aren't going to do something about the Harleys running straight pipes! A tweaked 50's V8 with 10.5:1 compression and a good cam is LOUD without the megaphones, but with them it's deafening. Then again, a hot rod is supposed to be obnoxious!
I hold the baffles in with a machine screw so they can be easily taken out. Basically just a tube with one end welded up with some slits cut in it with the plasma. Fits into the pipe with the open end out...open end has a flange large enough to close off the megaphone so the exhaust has to pass through the slits into the smaller pipe to exit.
I took the inside of a motorcycle muffler and slid it inside the straight pipe. Quiets mine down alot, but you will loose a little power
Kent, that's along the line I was thinking, although, I hate to loose any power; with only 20HP to begin with, I can't afford to loose much!
I was thinking of taking some fiberglass muffler packing and create an internal muffler in the pipe. Since the original exhaust is only 1 1/2", I figured I wouldn't have to worry about to being too restrictive. I hate to make it too quiet, but also don't want to get fined for it either.
Where did you get the flange? If you made it, what are the measurements between the ports. I've been toying with the idea of making my own flange and custom header.
I got the header plate from Lang's (I think it was around $30-35), although with it being a little thin, it was easy to warp when welding, so we'll have to see how it holds up to the exhaust temp. Some of the guys who responded above talked of making them out .500" steel, which I think would work a little better given how easily the manifold warped when welding (I took it slow and took lots of breaks in order to try and prevent this, but no luck!). However, the elbow on the carb is getting awfully close to the frame rail as it is, and with a thicker plate, it may be a little to close. I'm not able to use a modern elbow with a shut-off valve in it now; I had to switch back to the original style without the shut-off.
If you need any more help, let me know: I definitely know a few things I would do different now that I've done it once.
I appreciate the help. I'm hoping to make a flange at school. I have to get some experience on the mills and this would be a great side project if I could get the time. Nice car by the way. Great to see some other younger guys in the hobby.
You can move the intake manifold away from the frame rail by sanding or milling the ports at a very slight angle.
My 3/8" plate warped ahead of #1. Next time I'll buy the 1/2" plate from Dan McEachern.