Project for boring steering gear case covers

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2005: Project for boring steering gear case covers
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ray Elkins on Monday, February 04, 2008 - 03:21 pm:

Since the shop was warm last night I decided to do a little more lathe work. Didn't have any help except Captain Morgan (can't seem to get him to be a second pair of hands) to work on the speedster body, so I threw together an arbor to hold the steering gear case covers in order to bore them true and put in a bushing.

I bead-blasted the best spare cover I had and put on a little of Tim Jeandrevin's favorite coating (black Rustoleum) to prevent flash rust, and also blasted the old broken pinion and bushing. The bashing had to be pressed off the pinion, and there was no corrosion between the two. After it was all blasted, the two parts still would have to be pressed together, leading me to further believe they were that way originally.

Don't have any brass stock comparable to the size I need (don't want to cut my 2" stock down that small), so the project is stalled until I can pick up some brass. Anyway, just thought I'd put up some pics and listen for feedback.




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Perigo on Monday, February 04, 2008 - 03:56 pm:

Ray,

Jack Daron and I were just talking about this yesteday. Mine has a lot of play and , as you know, Model T's have enough "play" as it is:-)

Did the cover have a bushing originally? We seemed to think "no."

Would it be possible to find a bushing for another application and turn it down?

Mike


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron-Indy. on Monday, February 04, 2008 - 03:57 pm:

Why not cut down an old tripple gear bushing? looks good.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ray Elkins on Monday, February 04, 2008 - 04:28 pm:

There is a "bushing" but it is steel and apparently rotates in the cover with the pinion. I came to that conclusion from the picture in the service manual and other factors. the service manual shows it as part of the pinion shaft, not a separate piece that would need to be removed from the cover (page 178, Fig. 388, Part B). If Ford intended the bushing to be pressed into the cover, I doubt they would show a picture in the manual of the bushing remaining on the pinion after the cover was removed. It took a press to remove the one I'm working with.


You might have hit on something with the triple gear bushing, Jack!. It is a 1" OD, bushing and the cover I have is already worn to .940". I can true up the bore (removing only what is necessary to make it round again so as not to weaken it)and then cut down the triple gear bushing to fit. Then it would only need boring for a running fit on the .75" pinion shaft and re-cut the spirals for lube. Seth suggested a .020" steel thrust washer to separate the pinion teeth and brass flange, and that is do-able. Nice thing is, a used triple gear bushing that is worn beyond use for it's original application will suffice, since the OD, ID, and flange thickness are going to be modified anyway.

thanks fellas! Excellent feedback!
Ray


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Monday, February 04, 2008 - 04:36 pm:

How are you going to hold the steering wheel on with those horrible threads?

Also, if you should happen to have a brass steering gear cover I would suggest using a steel bushing. Brass running against brass, (or to be more correct, bronze), can wear quickly and even gall, jammimg up your steering.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush on Monday, February 04, 2008 - 04:44 pm:

The idea suggested in the first place, was the bushing would be pressed in to the cover and the pinion shaft would turn in the bushing.
Great job on the mandral, you and Cpt Morgan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ray Elkins on Monday, February 04, 2008 - 04:50 pm:

Jerry, I ain't gonna use that pinion! It's just one I was using to do some measuring and planning.

This project evolved from a discussion (http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/46987.html?1202064472) over the unavailability of the steel gear case covers, but that thread got out of hand. The brass ones are reproduced, so those are unimportant in this case. If a fella has a brass one, he can just order a new one. Since the steel ones are not available new, we were discussing a method of reworking them to stop the slop and prevent further wear to the cover.

We're talking about a bushing that is stationary in the case too, not one rotating in the case. So a brass cover could be reworked the same way, letting the steel shaft rotate in the bushing.

Thanks for making that point though
Ray


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ray Elkins on Monday, February 04, 2008 - 04:55 pm:

Thanks Mark! He's good for something anyway! Can't get him to hold the racer body while I roll beads in it though.

Actually, he got on my nerves so bad that I had to stop working last night for safety's sake (fella don't need to be running a lathe after the Captain has been present for awhile) and finished the threads this morning.

If I didn't have to go to work here in a few minutes, I'd shortly have a triple gear bushing in that cover.

We'll see how it all works out!
Ray


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Sizemore on Monday, February 04, 2008 - 10:54 pm:

He wouldn't be much help propped up on the lathe. You might be able to use his sword for cutting threads:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Tuesday, February 05, 2008 - 10:45 am:

Ray,

Thanks for the explanation and the post. I never really knew that there was even bushing/sleeve that could be removed from the pinion shaft.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ray Elkins on Tuesday, February 05, 2008 - 04:24 pm:

Honestly Jerry, I didn't either until the subject came up on the forum. Henry did everything as cheap as possible while performing a balancing act with cost and quality, which is obvious otherwise there wouldn't be so many T's still on the road. However I think there is a lot of room for improvement, especially in areas like the case cover that are not seen. I just thought it would be an interesting project to take on, not to turn into a business venture but just to help some fellas out. Oh, and while I'm at it I'll do the same to my loose wheel on my TT! Thanks for your valued input Jerry.

John, when I catch myself closing one eye so I can focus on the caliper or mic, it's time to shut off the lathe. I don't make it a habit of inviting the Captain along, but once in awhile I show him around the shop. I'll have to check out the sword...if it has a 60 degree point on it, that might work!
Ray


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush on Sunday, February 10, 2008 - 07:12 pm:

I just wanted to check how the case top project is coming along?
MarkG


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ray Elkins on Monday, February 11, 2008 - 01:16 pm:

Hey Mark. It's sitting while I get caught up on the racer body I'm building. Too cold in the shop to do anything so I've been holed up in the attached garage working on the body or in the house working on the wife's ceilings to keep the peace. As soon as I get a chance with some decent temps (hate running fuel to warm the shop) I'll get that project finished.
Sorry I've got too many irons in the fire

It's gonna be a simple rework though. I got a triple-gear bushing and it's going to be just right.
Thanks!
Ray


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ray Elkins on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 02:19 pm:

Well Jack, you were right. The triple gear bushing is just the ticket for these. Bored the cover clean and then turned down the bushing for a press fit and decreased the thickness of the flange to what the original steel one was (minus .020"). Then with it pressed into the cover, put it back on the arbor and bored the bushing for a running fit on the pinion shaft. Not a big deal at all! Gotta order some .020" steel shim washers and we'll be good to go.

Due to liability issues and my own time constraints, I really don't want to do these as a business venture. I will, however, do a few (half-dozen or so) as a favor to fellow T'ers if you want to cover the costs. The cost will be the price of the washer, bushing, and shipping the cover and pinion shaft back to you. If you have a used triple gear bushing you can send it along and there will be no charge for the bushing. As you can see, all the surfaces of the bushing are machined so it is basically the same as using a new bushing. Otherwise, a new bushing costs $6.40 (plus shipping) from Lang's. If there is interest, I'll order a half-dozen and split the shipping six ways so it will be very minimal per bushing.

Here are a few pictures of what is done. The picture of the finished bore did not take for some reason, so I'll have to take another one and post it. I did scuff up the ridge around this cover because I was on the phone and wasn't paying attention when I cut the bushing flush, but I won't do it to anyone else's.:-)





Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron-Indy. on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 06:46 pm:

Ray,if you need them,I have a bunch of used tripple gear bushings.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ray Elkins on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 03:32 pm:

Thanks Jack. Looks like I've only got two covers to do at the moment, but if anyone else steps up I'll probably need some.

Again, I really appreciate the suggestion about those bushings. Funny I walked around the shop and poked round through boxes and shelves in the buildings and couldn't locate anything to use to do this, and all the time what I needed was sitting 4 feet from my utility room door in the garage. I had a disassembled transmission on the bed of my TT and the bushings never even crossed my mind until you posted that. Being resourceful is one reason I don't throw much of anything away, but having creative and knowledgeable input from friends like yourself makes all the difference.

One thing I did notice about the bushings is they seem to be brass. I had thought they'd be bronze, and they may very well be but they appear to be brass from the way they machine. I don't like machining bronze, but brass is sweet.

Thanks
Ray


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