Head gasket

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2005: Head gasket
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Campbell on Wednesday, February 06, 2008 - 11:34 am:

I see that Snyder's is selling a new type of head gasket that has silicone on either side of the metal. It is supposed to stop coolant from seeping out. I don't have many hours on my T. Is this a problem with Ts? I know that Model A's tend to ooze like mine did. I did put one on my A and it seems to work. Just curious to see if anyone has had any experience with these. I waiting for a Z head so I'll have to put a new head gasket on. Copper or new silicone type?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William Harper on Wednesday, February 06, 2008 - 11:56 am:

Hi Mike, I thought I heard that this new head gasket can not be used with a Z head. You might want to call Snyder and comfirm compatability. Hope this helps, Bill


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Campbell on Wednesday, February 06, 2008 - 12:12 pm:

Thanks Bill, I'll send them an email to see if that's true and I'll post the response. MIke


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Stanzione on Wednesday, February 06, 2008 - 02:14 pm:

Hi Mike,

I just put one of those gaskets on my 26 Tudor. The catalog does not mention anything about its application but when I got it the package said it could not be used with a Z head and if using any other high compression head that you needed to mate up the gasket to insure that the fire rings did not extend in to the chamber. In my case it looked OK So I installed it.

Package says to torque to 45 to 50 pounds. I torqued to 35 all around and then to 50 all around. Went back out an hour later and had coolant seeping all around the head.

This head had been on my other car for a very long time. I checked the block surface and the head surface carefully and both were flat as any I have ever seen before I assembled it.

I went ahead and torqued it to 55 pounds and some of the seeping slowed down.

Package also said to run the car and after 100 miles to retorque the head to 45 to 50 pounds after the engine had cooled down.

I ran the car in the garage for about 30 minutes and got the coolant discharge temps up to about 180 degrees and then let it cool down completely and the thing was still seeping badly, checked torque and all was where it was supposed to be.

Ran the car again to get to temperature and this time retorqued everything to 55 pounds when the engine was still hot. Let everything cool down and the seeping has now stopped.

As soon as I finish the bands and get all the glass back in the car I will drive it some and see if this thing holds up.

You might ask why i decided to go with this gasket...... Well I had just put a new Z head on my other car which had a newly rebuilt engine that had been decked and used a copper gasket with the copper gasket sealer and the thing seeped at the corners. Took it back off and put another new gasket on (didnt see anything wrong with the first but wanted to be sure) and used some other sealer on it to get it to stop seeping. That resolved that one I think.

When I was ready to put the head back on the Tudor I thought I would try this new gasket and see if it would help. Cant say I would use one again, or at least would not pay much attention to the instructions in any case.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bruce Spainhower on Wednesday, February 06, 2008 - 02:30 pm:

Tom - What was the "other sealer" you used that worked? I'm just about to that point installing a Z head. - Bruce


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Stanzione on Wednesday, February 06, 2008 - 02:34 pm:

Permatex High Temp Gasket Sealer. Apparently 2 kinds, I used the one that says it stays flexible.

Is yours a new head? I could not figure out why it was an issue. I had the block decked and it was perfect and the head checked out great as well. Compression was fine so it was sealing around the chamber OK just that the coolant was seeping out at the corners.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson on Wednesday, February 06, 2008 - 02:44 pm:

The only Head Gasket that I will use is the one that Ford-N-More, Spokane Washington Sells. They have a kevlar inside. Phone number 800-327-1469.
Try it you will like it.

http://clubs.hemmings.com/frameset.cfm?club=ncmtc

Libby Flats 4


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Stanzione on Wednesday, February 06, 2008 - 02:51 pm:

Thanks Dave, I am familiar with the gasket that Tom Carnegie sells.

Wish suppliers on this end of the states would carry them so I could get one quickly when I needed it.

Have never had problems with the regular copper gaskets until this episode


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Jeffrey Cole on Wednesday, February 06, 2008 - 03:01 pm:

When I put this engine together in my pickup project I used a new copper gasket with spray copper coat.It seeped at the back and front a bit.Once cooled,I retorqued.It has quit seeping.

On the 26 engine I now have apart when i was working on a year or so ago and was trying to get it to run,I cleaned everything up,used the old gasket,spray copper coat from napa,and the engine ran ok.
I took the head off a couple weeks ago while tearing the engine down,I had to pry the head loose,and that copper coat had sealed up around all the water ports and was really sticking well.
So I dont know that I will change methods that work for me anytime soon.I aint saying i am right,just saying what worked!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Weir on Wednesday, February 06, 2008 - 03:57 pm:

Tom; I've got a 'Z' head on my C-Cab. I had to pull the head when I had to change the #4 rod because the thrust faces were falling off the rod. I got ahead of myself and didn't have another gasket and didn't want to wait for one. I used the old copper one and it has been on for a year now. I used no sealer, the block had been decked and I torque to 25 and then increase 5# at a time to 40. I re-torque to 40 after running for 10 miles or so until it stays at 40. There is absolutely no seepage.

Sincerely

Jim Weir


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce on Wednesday, February 06, 2008 - 04:05 pm:

I have aluminum heads on my '13 and on my '15 with the white (asbestos faced steel?) head gasket that Langs sells. I used KW Copper - Cote. No seepage at all.

Gasket


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Stanzione on Wednesday, February 06, 2008 - 05:10 pm:

I think my problem is resolved now I was merely responding to Micheal's question about this new silicone gasket. Can't say that I would reccomend it given my experience.

Other than the problem I had with the new Z head I have always had great luck with the standard gaskets and will go back that way in the future for sure.

Thanks to you all for your input though, always good to hear what works for others.

Tom


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bruce Spainhower on Wednesday, February 06, 2008 - 09:53 pm:

Just got back to the computer... Thanks, Tom for the response. My Z head is new, and I haven't checked it for flatness against the block yet. Good reminder. I'll look for the Permatex you mentioned.

One of the reasons I asked was because of a mention I read in an earlier thread about using grease as a head gasket sealant except with a Z head, and I was wondering if anyone has actually tried it. - Bruce


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rod Gaffrey on Wednesday, February 06, 2008 - 10:16 pm:

Royce. What kind of carburetor is on your T engine?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce Peterson on Wednesday, February 06, 2008 - 10:27 pm:

Rod,

It is a Sunderman. I bought it new old stock at Chikasha last year. It runs good.

Royce


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Campbell on Thursday, February 07, 2008 - 09:18 am:

Thanks to everyone for their insights. I think that I will just go ahead and use the copper gasket and copper spray. Those of you with Z heads, what do you recommend for the final ft./lb. amount?
Mike


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard G.Goelz Knoxville,Tn on Thursday, February 07, 2008 - 09:45 am:

Mike, i use 55 ft/lbs as the final torque on my Z head.
Rick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Campbell on Thursday, February 07, 2008 - 11:08 am:

Thanks Rick.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Thursday, February 07, 2008 - 11:12 am:

It's safer to clean out the holes, then put in studs all the way to the bottom of the threads, secured with Loctite or Permatex. Model A studs are fine thread on top, so you can get the same gasket compression with 20% less torque. This way, you also get full length strength in the block with no twisting in the threads as it is torqued down. I use the long Model A studs on the Fronty. To clear the firewall, you may have to use bolts in the aft holes, anyhow.

Threads must be clean and dry. Oiled threads will give up to 40% more pulling force for the same torque, which can break bolts or strip threads in the block. Also, oiled threads will back out easier...

rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Robison on Thursday, February 07, 2008 - 12:18 pm:

The new silicone Head gaskets appear to work fine. One problem is that one of the holes has to be reamed to fit. It isn't stamped in the correct place. Mike


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Weir on Thursday, February 07, 2008 - 02:48 pm:

Michael; I use 40 Ft/Lbs starting with 25 and working up. I also use antisieze on the threads. See my post above.

Sincerely

Jim Weir


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Stanzione on Thursday, February 07, 2008 - 04:43 pm:

Hi Mike,

How would you say the silicone gasket compares to the Kevlar gasket that you guys have? What do you run on your 500 car?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Robison on Thursday, February 07, 2008 - 04:58 pm:

Miss Jillian is currently running a Silicone gasket on her 500 car... she only has 100 miles on it; so far so good. Most nearly 100% of the 500 guys use the Kevlar copper gasket with zero reported failures. The cost of a copper is $19.95, a silicone gasket is $26.00. I run a copper gasket because I've had good experience. Mike


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