Title

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2005: Title
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Bowling on Wednesday, February 06, 2008 - 02:34 pm:

I know its been asked before, but I need a title for my 27 rpu. I`m in ohio.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By bill leahy on Wednesday, February 06, 2008 - 03:14 pm:

mike. i am going through this right now. if you go to the ohio bmv web site faq section it will give you a customer service number to call for instructions. basically you will need a notarized bill of sale, a state inspection certificate, and a notarized letter from you stating the circumstances of your purchase, and you attestation as to the veracity of the information you are submitting. if the documents meet their requirements they will send you a letter of approval which you take to the title bureau. it worked once for me but not the second time thus far.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By incognito on Wednesday, February 06, 2008 - 05:14 pm:

I am in Ohio too. I did just what you said above, but they then informed me It would be a 2008 builders title. That means that the vehicle must meet 2008 emissions, have seat belts, etc.etc.etc.......

I am going the under ground route....incognito.......sssshhhhhhhhhhhh


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tom evans on Wednesday, February 06, 2008 - 08:11 pm:

My suggestion is to move from Ohio like I did (Akron) and move to California. They'll register and title anything with wheels!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By steven miller on Wednesday, February 06, 2008 - 08:52 pm:

Does Ohio dmv have any provisions for replacing 'lost ownership' papers caused by fire, flood, flushed toilet, etc.?
steve


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By chuck martin on Thursday, February 07, 2008 - 08:04 am:

"Sell" it to a buddy in Kentucky, let him title it, and "sell" it back to you, then you anly need a title transfer. Ky is an easy State to title an antique auto....Need a bill of sale, local sheriffs inspection, usually they will go by the engine block number, sometimes they will issue you a vin plate for it. Depends on who does the inspection.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ray Elkins on Thursday, February 07, 2008 - 05:19 pm:

depends on the county in Ky, Chuck. this county (Calloway), until a couple months ago, was easy to do that. Now the newly-elected judge evidently has a grudge or something against us car enthusiasts and will no longer do his part to assist us in titling vintage cars. For as long as I've known, it was as simple as filling out a "Court-Ordered Title Issuance" form, a quick run to the Sheriff's office to let them verify the VIN on the vehicle matched the VIN on the application, and you had a new title (for cars out of the system for 10 years or more). Cost $12 total. Now, I have yet to find a way to get a legal title for 2 cars that I have and have owned for 15+ years. Kentucky won't recognize a Broadway Title either.

I'd be willing to pay someone in a nearby county with a sensible judge to title at least my 31 Plymouth. I have the title from the last transfer (1956) but it is useles for anything other than framing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Jeffrey Cole on Thursday, February 07, 2008 - 11:07 pm:

I have yet to fiqure out why the dmv's shoot themselves in the foot on this.If they would implement a simple system to tital cars,there would be more folkes buying tags,insurance,paying property taxes and so on on cars that are now either in pieces or hid in barns waiting for a stupid peice of paper to be able to be used.

I have got to get a titel for my pickup.The best I can tell I will have to go with a bonded tital.Which means filling out paper work,getting a dmv man to look over the car,pay the bond and then pay the titaling fees,road use tax and so on.All over a piece of paper.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken - SAT on Thursday, February 07, 2008 - 11:29 pm:

Hey, we don't allow "titaling" around here. Watch your language. ;)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Jeffrey Cole on Friday, February 08, 2008 - 12:00 am:

##### It,I cant spell worth a hoot.And the bad part is the word is right above where I am typeing,but I guess I think I am spelling it right and just keep right on typeing,just like a few hours ago,took the wrong road and kept driveing,40 miles out of my way to where I was headed! I gota learn to spell and git 1 of them there gps units.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andy on Friday, February 08, 2008 - 12:11 am:

I'm in Central Ohio. What do you do when you can't read the number stamped on the block. Its almost worn away. I purchased my Model TT firetruck from a friend....no bill of sale, no previous paper work either. I can't find any other identifing numbers on this truck. Back in 1925 small town fire departments didn't usually register or title thier rigs......


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Cullen on Friday, February 08, 2008 - 10:35 am:

You know those government types, they are only trying to protect the public from carjackings, thefts, and the smokin hot market for Model Ts to use for drug running and drive-by shootings, etc. You would think that the various departments of motor vehicles could come up with a uniform way of verifying that an individual T is actually property of it's owner and rightfully so without trying to apply 21st. century rules and regulations to an icon who's newest example is 80 years old! A conspiracy to rid the public streets of old "unsafe" or "polluting" vehicles? No. Just bureaucratic tunnel vision. I've lived in various states that have different procedures for titleing and registering vehicles, from the easy to the impossible. A temporary title or bond for title sure seems to be fairly simple and workable, but each state will continue to protect it's own "territory". It's all about the power and ability to extract money from the citizenry.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ray Elkins on Friday, February 08, 2008 - 10:55 am:

I agree Mike, and probably it would be simple here still if the women in the clerk's office were willing to do something that might require briefly lifting their oversized butts off the chair. It's sad when a person wants to title an 80-year old vehicle, willing to pay the required fees without argument, yet you can't get anyone to tell you WHAT is necessary to do it!

Still, it gripes me to no end that a TT that cannot keep up with a modern farm tractor (and will not be driven anywhere other than rural roads) must fall under the same rules as a Ferrari GT-40!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charles Martin on Friday, February 08, 2008 - 08:40 pm:

I moved out of Lexington to get away from some of those problems. Clerks that don't want to issue the conceal carry permits to the DMV that will only take cash, and the only way to get a new title is to go throught Frankfort. Had to do that twice on a couple '31 A's, had to show reciepts for rebuild parts and photos. Now in a different county, the DMV office and sheriffs office actually want to help, and think it is "neat" to inspect a vintage auto. They all sit in front of the same computer, and can do the same thing, but I think it is a power thing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Halter on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 12:56 pm:

Ohio is tough, Although you can as I understand submit proof of ownership to The BMV and a judge can get you a paper you can get a title for, although I do believe it has to be inspected, who ever said it had to meet 2008 specifications was on drugs and should be fired.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By bill leahy on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 03:03 pm:

i am currently going through the procedure you are referring to. the inspection and other paperwork need to be in order first before you submit your request to the court. i will post the result of my attempt when i hear from the common pleas court.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By BIll Schubert on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 10:17 pm:

I live in Michigan "Home of the T" and have spent several lunch hours at the Secretaty of State's office trying to get a title for my restored touring. The customer service representative started to get pretty miffed when I responded to one of her questions "2 or 4 door?" When I answered "3" things started going down hill at avalanche pace. Long story made short they wanted to title it as a 2008 assembled vehicle until I pointed out a historic license plate on a 2008 might be a problem. That got their attention, now I am waiting my 60 days for a title. Hope they figured it out on try #2.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Jeandrevin on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 10:47 pm:

Bill,
I have spent hours on the phone to Columbus with no luck. Please let me know how you make out.

Tim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth Harbuck on Thursday, February 14, 2008 - 12:18 pm:

I don't understand why anyone would deal directly with the DMV for issues like this one when automobile title service companies are everywhere. They know exactly how to deal with the DMV and don't charge much at all.

If you enjoy being miserable dealing with bureaucrats, then I guess I might understand.

Seth


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thomas J. Miller on Thursday, February 14, 2008 - 01:23 pm:

Using Michigan as an example, obtaining a replacement title should be a simple process.

First, don't restore the vehicle and then try to do it. As soon as you can, present the vehicle for inspection. If the vehicle is valued at less than $2500, you don't need a surety bond.

A police officer needs to inspect the serial number and note it. This can be accomplished by dragging the car over to the police station or by having an officer who thinks old cars are cool, stop by and sign the form after inspecting your car.

Next fill out a statement explaining how you obtained the car. If it's a T, Bring Bruce's book to the SOS to prove the weight. The Michigan office I dealt with was happy to call a touring car either a four door or a convertible. They were polite enough to ask which body style was more appropriate. The Michigan forms are on line, you need TR-204 and TR-54.

And yes, I have done this myself. I have gone the surety bond route with some and the $2500 route with others. I had all the documentation from the SOS website printed out and I had all my forms ready. I spent more time sitting in the lobby with my number slip than I did actually applying for the title. This method also assumes you will be making an accurate statement of the vehicle value for tax purposes. I always bring a photo of the car in case the examiner thinks I've undervalued the car. In the case of the $2500 car, after seeing the photo she politely declined my offer to sell it to her for that price.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Jeandrevin on Thursday, February 14, 2008 - 01:24 pm:

Seth
Automobile title companies? I never heard of such a thing. Title companies here in Ohio, as far as I know deal in title insurance for home mortgages etc. but never heard of automobile title company. I will make some calls.

Tim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thomas J. Miller on Thursday, February 14, 2008 - 01:28 pm:

I forgot one other thing. Model T Haven's photo site is an excellent reference for demonstrating the value of unrestored Ts. I brought a couple of photos of what they were selling for $2500 as other documentation. The printouts had the website and the date of printing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth Harbuck on Thursday, February 14, 2008 - 01:55 pm:

Yes Tim. A "middle man" between you and the folks that often enjoy being difficult. Car dealerships use them all the time here in Louisiana. If there is a dealer in your area that deals in pricey collectible cars, ask them if they use a title company. Certainly they do since many of their transactions would be considered "unusual" to the DMV.

Instead of standing in the line at the DMV to find out there is that one document that you forgot, etc., etc.

Now, if I could only get my Driver's License renewed at the title service place...............

Seth


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Jeandrevin on Thursday, February 14, 2008 - 01:59 pm:

I just called 3 "title" companies. They all deal in mortgage insurance and have never heard of anybody that deals with car titles.

Must be different here in Ohio.

Tim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth Harbuck on Thursday, February 14, 2008 - 02:06 pm:

That sucks. Sorry to hear that. I'm glad I live in Louisiana, I guess. BTW, my speedster lived in Ohio before it lived briefly in Kentucky. It's now happy in humid Louisiana, varnished red oak and all. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andy Drake on Thursday, February 14, 2008 - 02:33 pm:

Tim,

This would be folks like Broadway Title who are in no title states like Nevada or Alabama. Basically, you "sell" them the car under a bill of sale, they register and title it (for a fee of course) down there and then sign it back over to you. You'll have to Google for them as I don't have their link handy.

In theory, thanks to the US Constitutional clause ensuring "full faith and credit" to the laws and official documents of other states, Ohio recognizes the out of state title. Basically, you sign up for Broadway's service, get the out of state title, go get a simple Ohio BMV inspection, and then go to your county title agency. Voila! Instant Ohio title.

Some states are cracking down, so this magic doesn't work everywhere. I've never done one of these, but I know plenty of hot rodders who have bought shells or chassis and done this. I've bought a number of out of state cars and done the inspection/title change process, but never used the Broadway method.

As always, your mileage may vary depending on worn bands, tire chains and wheel ruts in the road.

-Andy


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Jeandrevin on Thursday, February 14, 2008 - 02:42 pm:

Thanks Andy.....
Another lead to check out. I am headed to Google!

Tim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Jeandrevin on Thursday, February 14, 2008 - 02:56 pm:

THERE IS THE ANSWERE!
I just spoke with them. They are sending me out an invormation packet. $149.00 and I have a legal title with my the serial number that matches my engine right on the Ohio title. This is what makes this forum great.

Thanks guys!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By bob sell on Thursday, February 14, 2008 - 02:58 pm:

i had this problem with a model a i bought in maine where cars are not titled over 15 yrs old. here in Ohio they title your roller baldes! anyway i battled on the phone and told them it is a catch 22 they require the seller in amine to provide something maine law did not require him to do... after i got a big wig on the phone in columbus and made him understand all i had was a bill of sale from maine which was all they required him to provide.. he waived all the crap and i was issued an ohio title for my 1928 model a ford.. good luck!

bob sell sellsauction@1st.net


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Hatch on Thursday, February 14, 2008 - 03:29 pm:

Tim: I would like to know what they ( is it Broadway?) send you. Alabama will not issue a title for any thing before 1975. Thanks, Dan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Jeandrevin on Thursday, February 14, 2008 - 03:58 pm:

Dan,
Right! That is the way out. For cars older than 1975 there is no, nor has there ever been a title. They are transfered with a noterized bill of sale. They "buy" the car from you. They sell it back to you with a noterized bill of sale. You take the bill of sale to your local title office and they issue you a title.

Tim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken - SAT on Thursday, February 14, 2008 - 04:26 pm:

Except some states like Texas will no longer accept a B.O.S. for title transfers. I forget when it takes affect or if it has already but I read it when looking for some other info. Check with your DMV before sending money.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Hatch on Thursday, February 14, 2008 - 04:47 pm:

Tim: That is what I was wanting to know. The last time I took a T to get a tag, I had to take the car and let them look at it ( check engine #). They would not give me a tag till then. I think that the car would have to be tagged here in Al before your state would give you a title. I would always get a state letter that would say that this was a legal car in Al and then the other state would have to issue a title for it. I would always do that in case I sold it in a title state. The last T, they would not give me that letter.
So my question is how can they get the car tagged in AL if they do not have the car? Or do they not tag it and if so will your state title it? Thanks, Dan.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Cullen on Thursday, February 14, 2008 - 06:34 pm:

That is similar to the way NY does it, No titles prior to 74. You get a "transferrable registration" a title state uses the transferrable registration slip from NY to issue a title. I think that is what Alabama issues via Broadway and the other title companies. If you register it once in the state of origin, the state can't jerk you around, but you will have to spring for a set of tags and sales tax in a place you likely will never be.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ray Elkins on Friday, February 15, 2008 - 04:51 pm:

If you live in KY, you're screwed as far as Broadway Title. Even says on their website they don't deal with KY. Tried that route, so now I'm thinking about getting a Broadway title, have it transferred to a friend in TN, then transfer to me in KY. I dunno if that is going to work either. I hate these stupid state governments! They make these ignorant laws to try to curtail auto theft, but none can simply put in a clause exempting older (say pre-60 or pre-70) cars. A farm tractor owner don't have to go through all that crap to drive on the road. They don't have to be insured either!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Cullen on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 12:31 pm:

If you register and tag the vehicle in your name in Alabama, after getting the paperwork from Broadway, your home state has no way of connecting it to them. It is your car that you are bringing from "a cousin's farm" in Alabama. They should accept that. If they didn't nobody could move from Alabama to your state and transfer their car tags. (You may have to actually travel to Alabama to do this), it likely would work the same in other "non-title" states.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ray Elkins on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 01:33 pm:

Mike, can you title a vehicle and register it in Alabama when you aren't a resident there?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By aaron on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 01:37 am:

The the Broadway Title trick no linger works in Ca. and several other states.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Cullen on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 10:39 am:

I'm not sure about that Ray, I'd assume that you could pull it off somehow. Maybe with a PO Box, a friend's address, or worst case "move" to Alabama or another non-title state for a week. Renting a mail drop and transferring your D.L., then change it back when you change your mind and move back home. It may cost you a few bucks, but having yout paperwork in order is worth it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 12:18 pm:

There are many names for companies that offer vehicle registration services. Usually you can find one by asking around the old car circuit. I am building a car that never existed as a car, and knew I would run into problems if I dealt with the DMV. I got this car registered with no problem, and the guy did all the necessary work for me, including 1925 license plates for around $225. He deals with specific people at the DMV that know him and how he operates. But believe me, California won't register anything! Just try it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By bill leahy on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 07:38 pm:

i mentioned that i would report back on my efforts to obtain an ohio title. after submitting an out of state inspection, a notarized bill of sale, and a letter stating the facts of the purchase, my application was initially denied. the next option was to submit the same information to the common pleas court for a court ordered title. this effort was successful.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By bill leahy on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 07:52 pm:

this is my project. it is further along but this is the only photo that was small enough to upload.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Jeandrevin on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 08:18 pm:

I all my information from Broadway title today. It was in an envolope addressed to me here in Ohio. The first thing that I spotted on the application was a list of states they no longer can deal with. Guess what state was included!

Tim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ray Elkins on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 06:09 am:

Bill, I never thought about going to court and submitting it that way to the judge. Only problem I see is, we could get a court-ordered title issued before the new judge took office last fall. It is my understanding that HE is the one that decided he would no longer do them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joe Jeffers on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 09:52 am:

Why can't you go to your insurance co. and buy a title bond. Then take it to your DMV and get your tag.

The insurance com. charges depend on the value of the veh.
Joe


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By bill leahy on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 10:11 am:

ray, the court ordered title is covered under an ohio statute. it was suggested to me by the bmv when my original application was denied. i had my attorney submit the affidavits necessary, and got the title without further problems. as the saying goes, "your mileage may vary"

joe. that remedy was not listed as an option in ohio.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andy Drake on Friday, February 29, 2008 - 03:27 pm:

Bill, I'm going to have to look into that process. I assume your lawyer treated it as an abandoned vehicle or something? Probably will have to do something along these lines myself as my '25 comes back together.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By bill leahy on Saturday, March 01, 2008 - 09:57 am:

andy, the statute cited by the columbus office of the bmv was 4505.10. as i said i had previously submitted a notarized bill of sale plus an out of state inspection certificate for a 1914 runabout. on that occasion i received a prompt reply to the local bmv instructing them to issue a title. since then there has been a change of administration i columbus. policies may have changed as well or the individuals reviewing my submissions may have enough discretion that it was simply rejected.


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