Figure 8 shackles and spring perch

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2005: Figure 8 shackles and spring perch
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Daniello on Saturday, February 09, 2008 - 12:07 pm:

I am rebuilding the front end on my '13. Which shackle oiler should face forward, the one on the spring side or on the perch side? Also I need to build up some wear on the perches. Are the end faces of the spring boss supposed to be on the same plane as those on the wishbone boss? I don't suppose anyone has the drawing for the early spring perches?
Thanks, Robert


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian Harlamoff on Saturday, February 09, 2008 - 12:47 pm:

Robert,
The shackle oiler faces forward on the spring, the lower side. I will try to post a couple of photos of my spring perches this evening.
Best regards,
Brian Harlamoff in Santa Cruz, CA
13 Runabout
25 Speedster


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce on Saturday, February 09, 2008 - 01:44 pm:

Here's a picture of my '13 front shackle. The top oiler goes to the rear.

13 axle


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR. on Saturday, February 09, 2008 - 03:14 pm:

Robert -- They're just easier to get to for oiling if the top (perch) one is on the back for the front end and toward the front on the rear end.

If your shackles have oil holes on only one side of the shafts, drill them all the way through the other side as well. Otherwise, only one shackle on the front end and the opposite one on the rear end will distribute the oil to where it needs to be. The oil in the other two shackles will just "pool up" inside the shackles.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian Harlamoff on Sunday, February 10, 2008 - 02:15 am:

Robert,
Here are some photos of some perches. They appear to be 1 3/8 inches wide. Surprisingly, they seem to be slightly offset from center. I've been sandblasting and painting my 1913 chassis parts all day. Big job. I am punchy and ready to pass out from exhaustion. By the way, the perches are off of a 17 or so, but they are identical to those on my 13 except for the oil hole.
Regards,
Brian in Santa Cruz
13 Runabout
25 Speedster


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By scott rosenthal on Sunday, February 10, 2008 - 12:19 pm:

Brian:
The perches are deliberately angled off center of the mounting stud to pitch the top of the front axle towards the rear of the car. Be sure that your axle is installed as such, or severe handling issues will result (See Glen Chaffin's Axle Rebuild Pamphlet). As for the oil port in the bushing boss of these 17 parts...simply weld, braze, or bondo shut and then finish, if installing on the 13.
Regards,
Scott


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George House on Monday, February 11, 2008 - 11:10 am:

Mike,
Thanks for some timely advice! I'm doing the same thing that Robert is on my '14 runabout. Since theres no load on any of the 4 perches, I'm going to take them off and drill the hole completely through the shaft.
Please allow me to pass along the name of a restorer and frequent contributor to this Forum who welded (built up) my original Figure 8 shackles and machined them down for a bushing fit. He did an excellent job and is totally price reasonable. The alternative is to buy a $95 set new. If you need this service, contact Ken Kopsky at ccwken@wireweb.net Of course, if I had a lathe I could've done my own but would have probably screwed it up. Ken wire feed welded - not along the length of the worn shafts - but in a circular fashion like a barber pole. He said that welding the length of the shaft would cause it to 'bend'. I believe him.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 01:27 am:

You're too kind George but I appreciate it. If you would have let me know, I could have drilled them. I wasn't sure what year you were building. (End oilers or spring and perch oilers.)




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By scott rosenthal on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 12:52 pm:

I'm little confused here gentlemen. Looks like four shop operations to recondition a part that costs $50.00 to replace (That's an intial lathe clean-up pass, weld, rough dia lathe pass, then turn ground). What is so valuable about these particular shackles that this amount of fuss is warranted please? Not sending this to critisize, just not seeing how the end justifies the means.
Regards,
Scott Rosenthal


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian Harlamoff on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 01:34 pm:

Scott,
The problem is that the reproductions do not look like the originals. These figure eight style shackles were used on pre 15 Ts. These unique features are what makes a pre 15 T intersting to people who like them. I bought a full set of reproduction figure 8 shackles for $200 - I am not happy with them and I will have my originals restored.
Best regards,
Brian
13 T runabout
25 Speedster.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By scott rosenthal on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 02:26 pm:

I stand corrected. Position fully understood, and being of a slightly obsessive compulsive pursuation, I'm sure that I would do exactly the same.
Regards,
Scott Rosenthal


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 03:26 pm:

Actually, it's eight operations (of several steps) but you get "new" original shackles for less than the cost of reproductions. Unless, of course, you go with the stamped-steel repro version.

The stamped repros I bought for myself didn't even fit and the bolts were loose. After welding the bolts and grinding to make them look like originals, I figured I could do better. That's what prompted me to rebuild my own original set. (The later U-style) All the styles can be rebuilt though. The ones pictured above are the figure-8 style.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 05:39 pm:

Thats some nice work there Ken.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By scott rosenthal on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 09:33 pm:

Sounds like yet another potentially lucrative repro opportunity looming. I'm a little suprised that the guys who build the currently available repro shackles aren't on this.
Regards,
Scott Rosenthal


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Bunner on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 11:29 am:

I have a 17 and there is NO hole in the spring perches. But, thanks for sharing the pics of the proper way to mount the shackles. I did have one wrong, that I've corrected.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 06:13 pm:

Michael Brunner:

I have an unrestored 1917 roadster (May motor number) that has holes in the front perches and figure-eight shackles front and rear with steel spring-loaded oilers. The main leaf of the front spring has bronze bushings, but no holes or oilers in spring. Likewise, the rear spring does not have holes or oilers in the main leaf. The original rear perches are not on this car because the original owner had installed Hasslers.

My dad's 1917 touring (July motor number) which he purchased unrestored from the original owner 58 years ago, has oil holes in the front and rear perches and man-hole type oilers in the main leaf of the front spring. (I can't remember what type of oiler on the rear leaf - manhole or flip top.) This car did not have figure-eight shackles or oilers on the shackles when my father purchased it - they were/are the more familiar two piece, straight-side variety.

I also looked at an unrestored '17 touring out of Colorado approx. ten years ago. It appeared to have no oil holes in the front perches, but upon further examination the perches did have holes with wood plugs in them. Not sure if the factory had originally installed these plugs but it is a possibility.

Erik Johnson
Minneapolis, MN


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Glen Chaffin on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 07:03 pm:

Scott, Chaffin's Garage does reproduce the original style shackles. We have both the 1909-12 Mae West type and the 1913-17 Figure 8 type. Both styles have the original part numbers cast in. Some originals had part numbers and some did not. We chose to include the part numbers. I'm not sure where Brian got his shackles but ours are as good or better than the originals. We have sold about 1,000 sets and have heard no complaints.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 07:36 pm:

Glen -

Were the original shackles cast or forged? Are your reproductions cast? Does it make a difference? (I would assume forged is stronger but maybe in the big picture, that is overkill and cast is more than strong enough.)

Anyway - I've seen them advertised I'm thinking of ordering a set of figure 8s to put in the "hope chest" for my car should I ever decide to restore it. (I should have done it ten years ago when the price was lower - ha, ha).

Thank you.

Erik "hope I'm not breakin' the rules" Johnson
Minneapolis, MN


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By scott rosenthal on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 08:59 pm:

Many Thanks Glen: I own a 12 for which I was able to locate correct appearance repros. Great to hear this opportunity proved fanacially feasible for your manufacturer. While I've got your attention, I used your axle rebuild pamphlet and found it thorough and very easy to use.
Regards,
Scott


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Glen Chaffin on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 10:20 pm:

Erick, Our shackles are wax castings. That is why they have such good detail. We have never had any reported failures. Scott, we are the manufacturer and we sell to all of the major dealers. I am pleased that the repair manual was helpful. Thanks


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