Need instructions for the No. 24 Coil Tester by Jefferson Electric Co.

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2005: Need instructions for the No. 24 Coil Tester by Jefferson Electric Co.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eugene V. Adams on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 12:12 pm:

I have come by a Jefferson Electric Coil Tester with no instructions.
Anybody happen to have instructions or a description for this No. 24 Coil Tester?

Maybe somebody will remember that they have seen paperwork on this tester somewhere amongst their stuff.

I don’t know if the cord belongs to the tester or not. It was just with it. The tester had to get current by some means.

box&cord
openlid
name
strangecontacts
Gene
Here is a neat picture… ferrying a precious Model T.
ferrybetter


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By gulfoil on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 12:26 pm:

My coil tester is differnt, but you hook the cables to the 6vt battery for my unit, then you can test coils or sparkplugs. Of course, it's not the same use as a hand cranked unit. Mine only tells you if it works.

Mike Royster


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 02:01 pm:

That tester appears to have the real early points and no place to insert the coil under test. It is not very clear from the photos where the coil would go for testing. The later testers also had one and two flament electric bulb sockets.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 08:24 pm:

I can't tell you exactly how this tester works but Jefferson is a name found on many of the early STATIONARY ENGINE type coils that typically had binding post connections to the outside world that were often labeled "PLUG" "BAT" and "COM" which were the connections to the spark plug, battery power, and timer (commutator) respectively. If you can figure out which connections goes to the 6V battery and which connections go to the coil this unit MIGHT have the capability to bypass the existing coil points and capacitor in favor of a tester supplied known good setup. Some have the ability to act like a master vibrator with external small coil and points that would be then placed in series with the coil that had its points bridged across with a short. That proves out the coil winding as being OK and the problem as being the points. Sorry I can't be more helpd but if you can remove the back and post a picture, I might be able to help you make some sense out of it. Most testers of the early era were "buzz box" type that just powered the coil off a 6V battery and had a place for the high voltage to arc across. They measured the spark voltage by the length of the gap. Be careful since this tester could give you a heck of a jolt if there is some HV leakage through the wood of the box.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eugene V. Adams on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 11:17 pm:

I appreciate the quick answers. As you can see in the picture, there is no indications of how a Model T coil would be incorporated in the functioning of this tester. I can’t visualize how it would be used to test a T coil.

There are no external contact apparatuses. Externally it is just a nice clean-line box. The strange looking part in the bottom picture has a fairy large round tightening knob; not the usual knurled nut. The little black button is as a spring and there is an air gap between it and a contact under it as thought it would be required to press it down to make a contact.

John, as you suggest, my next venture is to remove the face of the unit by the 4 screws and take pictures. It might be a couple of days. As I write this, I am feeling well enough from those flu-like symptoms that keep you nauseated & etc. I just had to sneak a quick look to check on my post.
spark

Gene


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Thursday, February 14, 2008 - 11:51 pm:

Gene:

Just looking at the front panel I see the connections rather easily. There is exactly enough connections for the wiring as I envisions it. A battery (+) and (-) connection is likely either the 2 connections at full top left in picture or the 2 connections at full top right in the picture. I am guessing full top left since the push button and points contacts are on the right so I am thinking the coil connections are on the right. The 2 center connections with the pointy long things is the spark gap and those points as pictured are way off. Rotate the one hanging down and the other one too so that the points are pointed down and toward each other until at their tips they are no more than 1/4" apart. Wider than that can cause damage to a coil. One of those 2 spark connections (I will say the one on the right) goes to the "PLUG" connection on a Jefferson or other stationary engine coil. The other 2 coils connections are for the "BAT" and "COM" connections on the coil. The 2 selector switches likely apply power to the device and perhaps switch in a capacitor that is under the top panel. I suspect you will find a small coil under the set of points that is just above the pushbutton. That coil will have its core coming up through the panel and likely hidden under the vibrator points there on the panel. Like I said before, I think those points and perhaps a winding underneath will form an external vibrator to allow you to test the coil with a known good set of contacts. If you provide a really good picture or pictures, I can draw the schematic from that and then I can pretty much tell you how it likely was hooked up and the purpose for each switch and device. While this tester could be hooked up to a T coil with some metal tabs and rubber bands around the coil, the tester is far more likely to have been designed to test a Jefferson brand coil or other stationary engine coils. I make stationary engine coils for folks and for the Fairmont railroad cars so I am fairly comfortable with how they work and how they are connected up. Below is a picture of one of my coils and you can see how this could easily be connected to your pictured tester.

Fairmont Coil


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Friday, February 15, 2008 - 01:17 pm:

A photo of the other side of that tester should provide many more answers.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eugene V. Adams on Friday, February 15, 2008 - 10:00 pm:

Thank you, John. Beautiful coil. You do nice work.
Thank you for your discussion.

James, I have had company and haven’t had a chance to take a picture of the underside of the face.
That will be next.
Here is a nice picture.
twithboat


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eugene V. Adams on Friday, February 15, 2008 - 10:17 pm:

I may have found a solution. I was just looking at today's comics and come up with an idea that if I sent this thing to Idville, maybe the Wizard could use it.
id


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Pawelek on Friday, February 15, 2008 - 11:20 pm:

Not trying to steal the thread but I've had this tester for years and still do not know how it works. It does have sockets for bulb testing, a handle when spun that makes a ratchet sound and a 7 way selector dial with the letters O,A,V,O,C,L,O on the side. Tons of wiring inside with a condensor on one circuit. Also a cool Hoyt Ammeter and a volt meter that says "Made expressly for Jaynes Battery and Electrical Tester". I assume someday I'll mail it to John Regan or Ron Patterson and let them figure out what it really does! As everyone knows I am electrically challenged even on a good day. Anyone else have one of these and know all the functions?...Michael Pawelek
daifuv9348tv[934t8yv


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eugene V. Adams on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 03:03 pm:

Michael,
I am glad that you inserted the picture.
It is interesting to see more of what's out there.
Maybe these are "do nothing" machines.

Here is a Website for a “do nothing machine” http://woodenuknow.com/donothingmachines.html
Down at the bottom is a link to click to see one working.

I have taken some pictures of the underside. After I add some text to some of the pictures, I will post them.
Gene
Here is another picture.
modelt&4people


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John T. Tannehill III on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 03:44 pm:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John T. Tannehill III on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 03:47 pm:

Hope that helps some. John


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eugene V. Adams on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 02:39 pm:

Michael,
I am glad that you inserted your picture.
It is interesting to see more of what's out there.
Maybe these are "do nothing" machines.

Here is a Website for a “do nothing machine” http://woodenuknow.com/donothingmachines.html
Down at the bottom is a link to click to see one working.

I have taken some pictures of the underside. After I add some text to some of the pictures, I will post them.
Gene
* * * * ***************** *************** *********************
Thank you John T. Your post adds yet another Model No. to what is out there.

Here are pictures of the wiring inside of my Model #24.
Some tinkerer has been here before.
It now may be impossible to figure this thing out with a missing wire.
aunder
astand
agizmo
Here is something from John Ts picture.
a#25
And here is yet a different coil from a 1933 catalog. It’s measurements look to be about the size of a Model T Coil but more squareish. Square
The description is fairy straightforward.
atrembler


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger K on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 07:03 am:

“do nothing machine” - i wouldn't say that.. Maybe it's a machine that goes "ping"? ;-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arCITMfxvEc


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Warren Mortensen on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 08:40 am:

Roger K, I don't think these machines are dead, they're just sleepin'.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Warren Mortensen on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 08:41 am:

Or pinin' for the Fords.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 09:06 am:

The picture has some shadows around the vibrator coil area that make it difficult to see exactly what is connected to what but that coil is going to operate in SERIES with the primary of the coil under test just like a master vibrator is in series with the primary of the T coils when on the car. The oval thing mounted horizontal along the bottom is the CAPACITOR which is connected to the switch likely to thus switch it IN or OUT of the circuit to thus substitute for the internal capacitor in the coil under test. Some coils also did NOT have capacitor internal but was mounted external so this capacitor could thus be used to test the coil. The connection at the top edge (3rd from left on top view of panel or 4th from left on bottom view) that appears to have no connection but THAT IS CORRECT and is where the spark plug wire connects. The 2 electrodes that have the pointy ends are setup like I said in my earlier post. The spark voltage will JUMP across those pointy electrodes which are way out of adjustment in your top picture. Set them to be 1/4" apart at their tips by rotating them to point downward with their tips just 1/4" apart.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Pawelek on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 04:02 pm:

Here is a collage of my mystery tester inside and out. In the bottom picture, at the upper right, you can see how the crank handle on the outside is conntected to a ratchet wheel on the inside that opens and closes a set of adjustable points. Pretty cool but a mystery to me.... Michael Pawelek

42356546y6nj6356y6yu56
yoip.yiopoip.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 08:06 pm:

Michael:

The ratchet wheel is just a poor man's "vibrator" which serves the exact same function as the vibrator in the Jefferson tester except the pulsing is manually generated by cranking. Notice also that you have a capacitor too for inserting into the circuit to thus substitute a known good one for questionable capacitor inside a coil. You have a coil tester but while it COULD test Model T coils, it is really set up more to test the same type of coils that the Jefferson model Tests. Your multi tap switch has "dead" positions that correspond to your "O" positions in your sequence of O,A,V,O,C,L,O What I think the selector switch does is switch various components when in the A,V, C,L positions with NOTHING switched in for the "O" positions. My guess is A is for Amps (notice you have an ammeter). V is for Volts (you also have a voltmeter), C is probably to insert the internal CAPACITOR, and L is likely to apply power to the LAMP sockets. I could be wrong and the circuit is impossible to trace from a picture but the 2 contacts on the top end that are pointing to each other are the SPARK GAP points. Your multi tester can test coils, lamps, and probably just general amps and volts thus it is an all purpose test set for early auto with ability to test charging amps up to full scale on ammeter and voltage up to full scale on voltmeter. With some time you could trace each wire to each outside connection and make up a schematic for the thing and I might then be able to help you figure out what connected to what. For testing a coil you would HAVE to have an external 6V battery as with the Jefferson tester above.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eugene V. Adams on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 09:16 pm:

Gosh, John,
Whooeee!.... all right! Uh-huh!
monkeyscrath but… I am not sure my IBM (itty bitty mind) can really fathom the depth of your revelation.

As you suggested, it looks like the “O inducer and the fort-nay goes between the number 2 bottom bolts or you might” short out the spizarinctum.

Having learned that I needed to aim the points toward each other,
I found that with a finger between the points and the GO switch was mashed, spark my eyelids wouldn’t gravitate to the down position.
Also, after doing this, I can’t turn my head to the right or to the left and my teeth won’t stay in because I can’t close my mouth.
I have had no trouble with constipation since.
This is something I will have to get used to.

Mind you now, all of this with the one wire missing.
smileyroll


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