Fourth Main Fitting....

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2005: Fourth Main Fitting....
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Pawelek on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 07:24 am:

If the "fourth main" on an engine slides into place and all four holes line up perfectly with the engine sitting horizontally is it necessary to go through the process with the engine tilted in the vertical position? I'm in the process of re-installing a rebuilt transmission in my '19 and the fourth main appears perfectly aligned just as it did during the disassembly process. Thanks...Michael Pawelek


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 10:34 am:

I align the ball cap with the engine horizonal and my engines are smooth running. Les Henry recommends the engine be upside down, many swear it must be horizonal, the Ford manual and Murray Fahnstock leave it horizonal. So, you have your choice.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 05:58 pm:

Hey Michael, is that the crank I saw?

If you know for SURE that the pan is straight, the horizontal assembly should work fine. The problem is that there's enough play in the cap holes and flex in the shafts to be off center-line and appear straight. That puts a lot of stress on the second main.

When assembled vertically, a bent pan will be obvious. It also eliminates gravity from the alignment. The con argument is that the pan is going to flex a little anyway with the weight of the transmission. I still prefer the vertical as it eliminates the guess work on adjusting the cap or re-tightening the pan bolts for compensation.

By the way, I found the box of parts by the door yesterday when packing things in for the storm we were supposed to have. I'll ship them off to you Monday.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Pawelek on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 06:51 pm:

Ken, Yep it's the same set up you saw. I had a few minutes yesterday and was starting to piece things together and then discovered I'm out of gasket sealant and I can't go to town until next Wednesday!!! Darn,darn,darn! Yes, Please send the parts the cheapest way possible. By the way, after I left your place last Tuesday, and towards dark I ran over some construction rocks on the road near Utopia and busted a huge hole in the oil pan on the VW. Was stranded on the road for quite some time and by phone found out that my AAA policy only covered towing for three miles and they wanted $280 for a tow. I finally called VW USA and the tow was free but the "bug" is now in San Antonio. It's no contest with a 6" diameter rock and an oil pan that sits 4" off the ground! All in all my adventure will cost an extra $850. No more four wheeling in the VW. :-)....Michael Pawelek


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 08:44 pm:

Ops. Make the Tuesday. Apparently, SOME folks get a holiday Monday.

Dang! Sorry about the V-Dubya. My sister did the same thing in a Vette out in Colorado. Don't even a$k. But fortunately, insurance covered most of it. You might check your policy, if you care to claim.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Sunday, February 17, 2008 - 12:50 am:

It would seem to me at some point during installation in the car you are going to have to take the bolts out. So the fourth main will take whatever position it wants to take. I have replaced them with the engine vertical, nose down and I have replaced them in the car without pulling the engine. When installing an engine I do put two studs in the bottom holes to maintain some semblance of alignment. If you pull the hogs head for any reason you will have to remove the top bolts and loosen the lower bolts and the retainer plate. I think these bearings are more forgiving than some might think.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Sunday, February 17, 2008 - 04:43 pm:

You are going to have to remove the bolts in order to install the universal joint. The idea of aligning the 4th main with the engine on it's nose is to be sure the crankcase is in alignment. You will then tighten the bolts around the hogs head while it is in that position. The bearing should slide in and out on the bottom bolts without binding while in that postition. Then when you place the engine in the car, it will be in the same postiion as it was when inverted. The shape of the top of the crankcase and the bottom of the 4th main will keep it from sagging while you assemble the universal joint.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Adam Doleshal on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 01:06 pm:

I always wanted to know how you assemble the ball cap to the engine in the vertical position, and then keep it from moving when you have to take all the bolts back out again to insert and attach the driveshaft and torque tube??? Maybe you are supposed to have the entire car in the vertical position???


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 03:01 pm:

Some folks pin the cap in place when in the verticle position by drilling a hole (or two) through the cap and into the flange. A roll pin is then inserted to maintain the alignment.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Noel Denis Chicoine, MD on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 03:22 pm:

Adam, I've thought of a hoist to lift the back of the car toward the high ceiling. This would allow the engine to hang vertical, and make engine repairs easily accessible and at chest level. Think how easy it would be to replace the valves, rods, pistons, etc with the car vertical like this. There'd be no more crawling under the car for minor repairs. The camshaft would literally fall out! I've got to think more on this, and talk the wife into a taller garage!
Noel :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Houston, Broken Arrow, OK on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 12:57 am:

If you align the Transmission to the engine according to the instructions shown on the Tulsa Chapter website, the tailshaft will be within a few thousands of alignment with the 1st, 2nd and third main bearings. It would be best to not disturb this critical alignment. We do it this way:

Do the final assembly of your straightened pan and transmission cover. Trial fit your 4th main bearing. It may fit perfectly, but maybe not. If not, what is out of alignment? Certainly not the tailshaft which you have just measured. You must then bend the pan into perfect alignment with the tailshaft. On the 26-27, you may be able to make the proper adjustment with shims, otherwise, take a 4 by 4 block of wood and a sledge hammer and bend the pan.

All the above is done with the engine vertically, nose down.


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