Does anybody know just exactly when the front hub changed from the short shoulder/long threaded section to the long shoulder/short threaded section?
During the awkward adolescence transition period of 1917.
Really? That late? I was told it was some time in later '14 but the fellow wasn't 100% sure.
Bruce says late 1916 / early 17 in his text:
Makes sense, my '15 has the early style ball bearing hubs with the inner side machined for the speedometer gear.
I believe the change to the hub of 3/14/17 was the one that made the flange behind the hub cap wider by a bunch. There are lot of changes to the hub going on during 14-18 but as I read the record of changes for T232B - I think this is the change that made the hub outer end much stronger and not prone to splitting which is exactly what the record of changes explanation says is why that change was made. That would mean that the so called "later" hub likely would not have shown up on cars till possibly a month or so later or about April of 1917.
I have seen several of three types. The early narrow flange, the later wide flange and several with a flange about 3/8ths to 1/2 inch in width.
Are these documented in the archives, John? Or...Western Auto?
The problem is that the record of changes gives dimensions as they relate to bearing race depth and overall hub width and a few other dimensions but I would have to have one of each of the 3 you mentioned to see if those dimensions make up the 3 versions since the main thing that WE use to determine the difference is NOT what the record of changes calls out as noteworthy.
Dave Huson sent me a photo of a hub with a shoulder width about halfway between the "early" and the "late" sizes. Maybe this is the third one referred to by Fred in his post above??
How about some pics, Guys?
You have to be careful about hubs that you find because over the years many people have turned the later hubs on a lathe to make them look sorta like early hubs. IF you go to the same dimension as the early hubs then there is no strength left, so a halfway point would be safer although still obviously wrong if placed next to an original.
People were doing this fifty years ago so they can appear to be very old and "original".
My unrestored '17 (May '17 motor number) has one hub with short shoulder/long thread and one hub with long shoulder/short thread.
Both hubs have the flange on the back to accept a speedometer gear.
How many of you guys are still using the old ball bearings? I never have, but would like to. They are huge, and don't look like they would ever wear out.
I have ball bearings in my '15 and my '12. I took them apart, cleaned them and installed fresh grease. They look good so I don't see any reason to replace them in either car. Have put thousands of miles on the '15 with no issues. It has original rear axle Hyatt bearings too by the way.
The '13 will get ball bearings when I restore it. Reproduction parts are often nowhere near as reliable as the original ones.
I run ball bearings in most of my cars. Always have. I had a bunch of good races and cups but am getting down to the bottom of the barrel now. Good inner races are hard to find. Can't recall ever having a problem, although an original car I purchased one time had a broken ball.
Picture shows 1918 - 27 hub. This set of wheels came from a 1919, they are Firestone demountable wheels.
Here's a 1913 to 1917 hub.
Left one is the 1913 - 17 hub.
You can see the 1913 to 1917 hub has the machined area for indexing the speedometer gear. Note the big difference in the hubcap threads, the earlier one has a lot of threads and a skinny ridge.
the hubs pictured have me wondering...I have a pair that I haven't been able to date. They don't have the small OD step behind the threads like the ones pictured. Any ideas?
Ray, is that a rear hub? We're talking fronts here.
Ray they look like Chevrolet.
hehe...well, I guess that's why it don't look like any of the T ones I have!
Sorry for the interruption. We now return you to your regularly scheduled program!
No, Warren...I knew you were talking fronts, and this is one. I just couldn't figure out what years had a odd-ball like this. These things were made before my grandfather was born, so I'm learning every day!
Well, at least I've got a couple trotline anchors!
Thanx for the pix.